UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #20

[marynnu]

Oh, sorry. I thought dr Breary was a superior to her, being a consultant.

You'd never use that term for a nurse/doctor relationship. Or for anybody else in a hospital, really!

 

[katydid23]

You'd never use that term for a nurse/doctor relationship. Or for anybody else in a hospital, really!

Okay, noted.

Maybe it is a US thing and not the same in the UK. Here, the doctor bears primary legal responsibility for the patient and makes the key decisions about patient medical diagnosis and treatment and issues the plan that nurses are asked to follow.

So I thought of the consultants as having a higher rank in the chain of command. But I see that is not the case so thanks for the heads up.

 

[marynnu]

Okay, noted.

Maybe it is a US thing and not the same in the UK. Here, the doctor bears primary legal responsibility for the patient and makes the key decisions about patient medical diagnosis and treatment and issues the plan that nurses are asked to follow.

So I thought of the consultants as having a higher rank in the chain of command. But I see that is not the case so thanks for the heads up.

Doctors have a lot of power, and obviously make all the medical decisions, but do not have a management role re. nurses. And over here saying someone is your superior is a little insulting to you I think!

 

[IspyWithMyBigEye]

I think her whole testimony about the shock of the police turning up and how she wasn't even allowed to get changed out of her PJs and how she says she now suffers from PTSD as a result of it... is proof that she really wasn't expecting the police to turn up unanounced to arrest her and search her home without prior warning .. which if guilty, would explain why she still had all the handover notes and post it notes there!
And
JMO, if guilty etc

I agree with you absolutely, colourpurple.

So many people jump on the bandwagon of explaining their actions away by claiming they have PTSD. Whilst LL denies killing the babies, she claims the police calling at her door around 6pm has caused her PSTD. It would be easy ( especially for a person in medicine who knows PSTD symptoms) to lie to a psychiatrist about their symptoms.

I don’t want to talk about me, but to show how PTSD occurs, it takes a major happening. I developed it after being in an aircraft crash where besides having to be cut out as I was trapped for maybe an hour, and resuscitated twice - two were killed laying beside me - one of whom I adored.

So I know how PTSD manifests itself, what the true symptoms are, and I find it offensive when people pretend to suffer from it due to - in LL’s case - being woken at 6am by the police and brought into the station for questioning. Yes, it would be a shock, and would be a scary experience - but if you weren’t guilty of the accusations you’d have no need to be worried. IMO, LL was shocked that the police called but it didn’t stop her carrying on with her normal routine for almost two years before being charged.

So how did she have PSTD when she was able to go to salsa, go to work, go to Ibiza, remain infatuated with the doctor she thought she loved, and carry on working around babies if she was suffering PTSD? And why didn’t she seek help for it before she was charged?

IMO, it’s all excuses and a means to gain sympathy from the jury.

She’s crafty, cunning, sly and manipulative.

 

[marynnu]

So how did she have PSTD when she was able to go to salsa, go to work, go to Ibiza, remain infatuated with the doctor she thought she loved, and carry on working around babies if she was suffering PTSD? And why didn’t she seek help for it before she was charged?

She didn't do those things after the arrest though did she? Or am I misunderstanding you?

 

[Tortoise]

The Trial of Lucy Letby, Episode 31: Lucy Letby Pleads Her Innocence

BM - We've seen lots of text messages and lots of notes, some people swear with complete abandon whereas we do not see you swearing in text messages.
LL - No, that's not language I would use.
BM - Why use that language in this note for yourself?
LL - Because that's how I felt about some people.
BM - Was it directed at any people in particular?
LL - Yes. Ravi Jayaram and Steve Brearey.


Has she just possibly deliberately disrespected these doctors by dropping their titles, or would this be considered a normal way for a nurse to talk about the consultants?

 

[marynnu]

The Trial of Lucy Letby, Episode 31: Lucy Letby Pleads Her Innocence

BM - We've seen lots of text messages and lots of notes, some people swear with complete abandon whereas we do not see you swearing in text messages.
LL - No, that's not language I would use.
BM - Why use that language in this note for yourself?
LL - Because that's how I felt about some people.
BM - Was it directed at any people in particular?
LL - Yes. Ravi Jayaram and Steve Brearey.


Has she just possibly deliberately disrespected these doctors by dropping their titles, or would this be considered a normal way for a nurse to talk about the consultants?

It would be normal.

 

[Tortoise]

It would be normal.

I wonder how the jury would perceive it. I found it quite shocking, not being used to that.

 

[marynnu]

dbm

 

[marynnu]

I wonder how the jury would perceive it. I found it quite shocking, not being used to that.

Did you? I don't inderstand that at all. They were her colleagues. I left work 2016 and by then things had moved on & we were all on first name terms. We never referred to the medical staff as Dr. Whatever.

 

[Tortoise]

Did you? I don't inderstand that at all. They were her colleagues. I left work 2016 and by then things had moved on & we were all on first name terms.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be like that in the workplace between colleagues, I'm talking about in a public facing way. So if a mum came to the unit, I wouldn't expect a nurse to say I'll get Steve or Ravi to come and see you, but Dr... Same as I wouldn't go to my own doctor and address them by their first name. It just feels disrespectful. She's addressing the jury, not her colleagues. Perhaps I'm old-fashioned.

 

[marynnu]

I'm not saying it shouldn't be like that in the workplace between colleagues, I'm talking about in a public facing way. So if a mum came to the unit, I wouldn't expect a nurse to say I'll get Steve or Ravi to come and see you, but Dr... Same as I wouldn't go to my own doctor and address them by their first name. It just feels disrespectful. She's addressing the jury, not her colleagues. Perhaps I'm old-fashioned.

OK, I don't see that. They're just people. But we're all different aren't we!

 

[Lincoln34]

The sealed bags would need to have been tampered with to inject insulin into them, and all bags are kept under lock and key. The only person who takes one out is the nurse administering it, and she would have seen had it been opened or tampered with. What’s more, even if someone was so devious to inject insulin into the bag - it would have leaked.

It didn’t leak, though - so that leaves just one person who could have put insulin into the bag….

I had a tiny leak from a bag delivering chemotherapy 3 years ago and the nurses kinda went to Defcon 5 in panicking. I could not even notice the tiny hole. But they did and actioned it right away

 

[Dotta]

I'm not saying it shouldn't be like that in the workplace between colleagues, I'm talking about in a public facing way. So if a mum came to the unit, I wouldn't expect a nurse to say I'll get Steve or Ravi to come and see you, but Dr... Same as I wouldn't go to my own doctor and address them by their first name. It just feels disrespectful. She's addressing the jury, not her colleagues. Perhaps I'm old-fashioned.

Call me old-fashioned too.
Her referring to these doctors sound IMO dismissive and ill-mannered.

What is wrong with people?
What happened to good manners?

JMO

 

[JosieJo]

I'm not saying it shouldn't be like that in the workplace between colleagues, I'm talking about in a public facing way. So if a mum came to the unit, I wouldn't expect a nurse to say I'll get Steve or Ravi to come and see you, but Dr... Same as I wouldn't go to my own doctor and address them by their first name. It just feels disrespectful. She's addressing the jury, not her colleagues. Perhaps I'm old-fashioned.

I'm slightly old fashioned aswell ... but yes it's common to use first names ..but as you say in a public setting or in front of relatives I'd always say Dr whoever.
Jmo but I dont see it as an insult in this case ..more of a look at me I'm on first name terms with the consultant type thing ..if anything

 

[Tortoise]

I'm slightly old fashioned aswell ... but yes it's common to use first names ..but as you say in a public setting or in front of relatives I'd always say Dr whoever.
Jmo but I done see it as an insult in this case ..more of a look at me I'm on first name terms with the consultant type thing ..if anything

It just felt to me as if she was stripping them of their titles because she didn't consider them worthy anymore.

 

[Dotta]

It just felt to me as if she was stripping them of their titles because she didn't consider them worthy anymore.

Besides calling them "Ba....ds" you mean?

 

[marynnu]

Now then folks. Not using the title 'Dr.' means absolutely nothing. It does not denote disrespect or trying to seem special. It's just saying their names.

 

[Parker Knoll]

That’s exactly how I read it tortoise.
A bit of an eff you to them.
Clearly not though.

 

[esther43]

That’s exactly how I read it tortoise.
A bit of an eff you to them.
Clearly not though.

To an extent the level of formalities depend on the ward I think. Most of the consultants and drs I've encountered in NICUs and Paeds go by first names, even with the parents as it helps to build a rapport at a very anxious time.
However when I've been on respiratory wards as a patient, it's much more formal it seems and drs introduce themselves more formally too.