UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #21

[crystalline]

The one and only time my son projectile vomited, he was about 9 months old and had just eaten puréed banana and avocado. It was like scenes from the exorcist. It had such force and trajectory he was sat at the dining table and it landed on the sofa.

lol, I don't recall my two ever projectile vomiting - I feel I've missed out!

Wow so that was quite a distance!

Maybe longer - coming up to summer and I wonder how many jurors have holidays booked and/or childcare issues when schools are off for six weeks? Not to mention all the legal crew present!

Surely not

 

[Marantz4250b]

Oh for goodness sake how frustrating for everyone who’s gone to court today!
I wonder why there were only 2 days this week and last? Is it to give LL a ‘break’ while she’s testifying? It all seems very strange to me how a trial that has already taken so long can be dragged out to the point of only sitting 2-3 days a week. Sometimes not atall! Was this 2 day week schedule requested by the defense? How is this fair to the jury, the family members, even LL at this point?

Did the defense even give an opening statement at the start of their case? Because their original one was made back in October, so long ago it is not fresh in anyone’s mind. LL shouldn’t be testifying in dribs and drabs because it is not consistent JMO.
In 7 months there seems to have been more ‘days off’ than full days in court.

I understand there are genuine reasons for delay, juror illness can’t really be avoided, and obviously the jury can’t sit if they’re one person down. But the victims families have travelled to court today just to be told it’s not sitting, that IMO is not fair on them and shouldn’t have happened. Hopefully they were told before and didn’t have to make the journey there just to be told to go home.

I’m just wondering at what point is the judge going to say ‘look, we’ve been here for 7 months now, court needs to sit 5 days a week going forward, unless there is a valid reason for not being available’?

All MOO

If a juror is ill, though, the judge cannot force them to come in so I can't see that ever happening.

My theory is that because it's been going on for so long there are scheduling clashes with other things that the barristers and judge are dealing with?

Zero chance that it's to give LL a rest, to be honest.

 

[Marantz4250b]

It’s ridiculous! 6 days! When is the judge going to put his foot down? This trial has gone on long enough, constant breaks and half days here and there. Does the judge ask for evidence of the reasons given for not being able to attend?

I’d be interested to know, how many days total has court actually sat for since the beginning of the trial? And how many ‘days off’ have there been? Completely unfair to everyone involved, the jury, the families, defense, prosecution, even LL at this point! IMO

I don't think it's all due to jurors being unable to attend. Juror illness has been mentioned but no where near enough times to account for all the lost days. Also, several times it was announced the week before that they would only sit a couple of days the following week. That sounds more like scheduling conflicts as they'd not know that anyone was going to be ill that far in advance.

 

[Anxala]

If a juror is ill, though, the judge cannot force them to come in so I can't see that ever happening.

My theory is that because it's been going on for so long there are scheduling clashes with other things that the barristers and judge are dealing with?

Zero chance that it's to give LL a rest, to be honest.

^That would be my take too.

In any case, this is a huge commitment for the jury (and particularly now that it's looking like it's going to run on for a lot longer than originally expected) but they all continue to have lives and commitments outside of their jury service, and those have to be taken into consideration and account.

As frustrating as it is for all concerned (although I'm thinking of us mainly!), it's really not at all surprising that we're getting these periods of inactivity. There's nothing the judge can do to speed things up. He's a judge, not a magician. Life is always going to get in the way here.

 

[katydid23]

lol, I don't recall my two ever projectile vomiting - I feel I've missed out!

Wow so that was quite a distance!



Surely not

You ain't missing nothing......it's not fun. lol

Mine did it when they both had the flu at the same time as I did, and as I was cleaning it off the walls, made me feel like doing the same...

The thing is, I know infants can projectile vomit. But preemies, that are so very young and tiny----do they usually projectile vomit? It seems like it would be uncommon.

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

So frustrating for the families ...I've honestly never heard of such illness..I know it's been many months but still.

I wonder whether the courts still have rules in place which say that you shouldn’t attend if you have certain symptoms ? Or whether this is indeed just jurors deciding completely on their own that they aren’t well enough to attend court.

 

[Tortoise]

It sounds to me as if they are waiting for the juror to get confirmation from a doctor about whether they should stay at home tomorrow.

10:35am

The judge says, subject to confirmation, the jury will be told they will not need to come in tomorrow.

10:42am

That confirmation should be made early this afternoon.

LIVE: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, May 11 - defence continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

"From memory Letby believes she was either in Nursery 3, where she was the designated nurse to a healthier baby, or at the nurses' station at the time she was messaging from her mobile."

Letby admits she was 'frustrated' before death of baby she 'murdered'

"Letby says she and other staff would "regularly use" their phones when at work.
The general rule would be not to use the phones in clinical areas. Anywhere outside of the nurseries was acceptable, the court hears."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, May 2 - defence begins

There are many examples of her texting for hours, on shift.

It seems Letby thinks rules don't apply to her, IMO.

I might start with this as a general area, if I was cross-examining her. Texting constantly, breaching policy concerning confidential paperwork, disregarding the shift-leaders, etc.

 

[Diddly1]

I’ve been following this case from the start, it now feels like years and all you WSleathers have been invaluable for filling in the medical blanks. Thank you everyone. I have loitered and read, but my goodness it really does seem to be that LL has been a law unto herself MOO. Text messages and handover sheets alone!

 

[Dotta]

OK
Everyone was throwing the word "ridiculous" in the threads (I never did)

And now is my turn

This is ridiculous!

This trial seems a never ending horror story

In the USA they have 16?? (12+4 alternates) Jurors.
They all attend all the time, but at the end before the verdict the Judge dismisses 4 alternates as 12 must reach the verdict.

So even as 4 Jurors are struck by illness at the same time, there are still 12 attending the trial.

It really makes so much sense.


JMO

 

[Diddly1]

Has it been announced anywhere yet whether the juror is able to sit tomorrow, or in fact next week and I am sure I’m not the only person wondering if the case can continue with 11 jorors? MOO

 

[Marantz4250b]

Has it been announced anywhere yet whether the juror is able to sit tomorrow, or in fact next week and I am sure I’m not the only person wondering if the case can continue with 11 jorors? MOO

It can. It can go to nine, as far as I'm aware.

They won't dismiss a juror who has a temporary illness, though. If they did that we'd be perilously close to nine already, if not actually actually there.

 

[Marantz4250b]

OK
Everyone was throwing the word "ridiculous" in the threads (I never did)

And now is my turn

This is ridiculous!

This trial seems a never ending horror story

In the USA they have 16?? (12+4 alternates) Jurors.
They all attend all the time, but at the end before the verdict the Judge dismisses 4 alternates as 12 must reach the verdict.

So even as 4 Jurors are struck by illness at the same time, there are still 12 attending the trial.

It really makes so much sense.


JMO

I'm not sure that that is universally applied across the US. Each state sets its own rules and I'd be amazed if they were all the same.

That doesn't address the problem of a main juror needing a day or two off. Yes, there are spares who are hearing the evidence but the guy who is off isn't and may miss very important evidence. If that juror doesn't hear it then how can he evaluate it?

 

[Dotta]

I'm not sure that that is universally applied across the US. Each state sets its own rules and I'd be amazed if they were all the same.

That doesn't address the problem of a main juror needing a day or two off. Yes, there are spares who are hearing the evidence but the guy who is off isn't and may miss very important evidence. If that juror doesn't hear it then how can he evaluate it?

How can a Juror miss anything if there are stenographic notes of everything occurring in Court each day?

If I, for example, miss a very important staff meeting, my duty is to read the protocol with all highlights.

Sure, Im not a Juror, but reading the protocol of a meeting I know everything that matters.

JMO

 

[Diddly1]

A juror taking a couple of days off considering the length of the trial is nothing. But there have been other poorly jurors holding up the trial. I feel so desperately for the parents of the alleged murdered babies, and those poor little souls who were attacked, their parents must be experiencing some kind of hellish torture that is beyond the imagination. I for one couldn’t imagine it. MOO

 

[JosieJo]

I do wonder if the "majority" of the numerous lost days due to Juror illness are the same person or spread across all of them.
If a Juror has a chronic illness that is making it difficult on a regular basis imo the judge would be forgiven for dismissing the Juror depending on circumstances.
I'm not a spring chicken or uber fit but I can't think of a day since it started I would have not been well enough to attend.
Does anyone know how many Jurors there are at the minute?

 

[Marantz4250b]

How can a Juror miss anything if there are stenographic notes of everything occurring in Court each day?

If I, for example, miss a very important staff meeting, my duty is to read the protocol with all highlights.

Sure, Im not a Juror, but reading the protocol of a meeting I know everything that matters.

JMO

Jurors don't get daily transcripts, though, as far as I'm aware.

You also have to trust them to read it which many may not. If they are actually in court listening to and observing the witnesses then they can't not know about something said.

The point is that they are supposed to be there in order to observe proceedings and to assess what witnesses say and how they conduct themselves. Yeah, a day might not be too bad but what about several days?

 

[Dotta]

Oh well,
It is how it is - we can't do anything about it.

One needs to come to terms with this situation.

Justice's wheels grind SLOWLY but surely.

JMO

 

[Marantz4250b]

I do wonder if the "majority" of the numerous lost days due to Juror illness are the same person or spread across all of them.
If a Juror has a chronic illness that is making it difficult on a regular basis imo the judge would be forgiven for dismissing the Juror depending on circumstances.
I'm not a spring chicken or uber fit but I can't think of a day since it started I would have not been well enough to attend.
Does anyone know how many Jurors there are at the minute?

Didn't we notice that some of these "illnesses" coincided with the day of, or the day subsequent to, some significant sporting events?

 

[JosieJo]

Didn't we notice that some of these "illnesses" coincided with the day of, or the day subsequent to, some significant sporting events?

Yes the days often seem to follow the planned days off also