UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #21

[marynnu]

It can. It can go to nine, as far as I'm aware.

They won't dismiss a juror who has a temporary illness, though. If they did that we'd be perilously close to nine already, if not actually actually there.

You're right. You need a unanimous verdict with only 9 jurors apparently.

Juries in England and Wales - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Diddly1]

If it is the same juror surely the judge will reduce them to 11 MOO

 

[Dotta]

Didn't we notice that some of these "illnesses" coincided with the day of, or the day subsequent to, some significant sporting events?

You made me speechless!

 

[Anxala]

I do wonder if the "majority" of the numerous lost days due to Juror illness are the same person or spread across all of them.
If a Juror has a chronic illness that is making it difficult on a regular basis imo the judge would be forgiven for dismissing the Juror depending on circumstances.
I'm not a spring chicken or uber fit but I can't think of a day since it started I would have not been well enough to attend.
Does anyone know how many Jurors there are at the minute?

I think it's very unlikely a juror with a chronic (therefore unpredictable) illness would have made the cut for this jury. Remember, they signed on for six months. Their fitness to commit to such a long term trial would surely have come up in the selection process.

That's not to say of course that a jury member may now be struggling with ill health and may be at the root of the delays, but the simpler explanation imo is that people get ill, people have doc/dental/etc appts, people have childcare/elder issues, people have deaths in their families, on it goes, on and on and so very normally on. People have lives and life happenings that can't be synchronised to accommodate a trial and, most pertinently, a trial of this length

I think all we're really seeing here is predictable unpredictable life.

 

[Parker Knoll]

Exactly. It had an estimate of 6 months originally …. We are on month 8 !

 

[Dotta]

Exactly. It had an estimate of 6 months originally …. We are on month 8 !

With only 2 days of Defence presenting the case.

 

[Parker Knoll]

We live here now Dotta ;-)

 

[Dotta]

We live here now Dotta ;-)

What is 8 months' time compared to eternity?

Nothing


Marcus Aurelius gave advice to reconcile with what we are not able to change.

 

[katydid23]

I'm not sure that that is universally applied across the US. Each state sets its own rules and I'd be amazed if they were all the same.

That doesn't address the problem of a main juror needing a day or two off. Yes, there are spares who are hearing the evidence but the guy who is off isn't and may miss very important evidence. If that juror doesn't hear it then how can he evaluate it?

Yes, there are spares who are hearing the evidence but the guy who is off isn't and may miss very important evidence. If that juror doesn't hear it then how can he evaluate it?

No, it doesn't work like ^^^that. There are 16 jurors sitting in the seats watching the trial. As far as they know, they are all going to deliberate at the end of the trial.

If someone gets seriously ill, or has a family emergency, they are removed from the trial and it continues with 15 jurors.

There are never days where one guy is off and misses evidence. If someone needs to take a day off the jury takes the day off.

At the end of the trial, when all evidence has been presented and deliberations are about to begin, one of the court staff stands in front of the public and picks 4 juror numbers out of the hat----and those jurors and thanked for their service and sent home.

The remaining 12 are the ones that deliberate.

 

[katydid23]

Didn't we notice that some of these "illnesses" coincided with the day of, or the day subsequent to, some significant sporting events?

Yes, that was during the world football tournament, the days Britain played I believe?

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

Yes, there are spares who are hearing the evidence but the guy who is off isn't and may miss very important evidence. If that juror doesn't hear it then how can he evaluate it?

No, it doesn't work like ^^^that. There are 16 jurors sitting in the seats watching the trial. As far as they know, they are all going to deliberate at the end of the trial.

I think it’s no more than 14 people selected in the beginning in UK if trial is set to last for more than 4 weeks.

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

I think it’s no more than 14 people selected in the beginning in UK if trial is set to last for more than 4 weeks.

Although , in all the reports I’ve seen about the LL trial, they refer to the “12 strong jury” and have said on previous occasions that the trial can’t proceed because someone is ill and “we need all 12 of you present “ to hear evidence.

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

Didn't we notice that some of these "illnesses" coincided with the day of, or the day subsequent to, some significant sporting events?

Well it is Eurovision this weekend so maybe someone has decided to start the party early …

 

[Marantz4250b]

Well it is Eurovision this weekend so maybe someone has decided to start the party early …

If it were me I'd be petitioning the judge to order the court to sit on a weekend!

 

[bobbymkii]

Didn't we notice that some of these "illnesses" coincided with the day of, or the day subsequent to, some significant sporting events?

I for one was grateful for the juror that called in sick on the day of England's first World Cup match.
Trying to follow updates from a criminal trial and watch a football match which contained 8 goals in total would have been quite the task. I am male - I cannot multitask!
I'm already mad enough that this trial has dragged on so long it is now very likely to interfere with music festival season!

 

[marynnu]

Yes, that was during the world football tournament, the days Britain played I believe?

I don't think there's a British football team.

 

[bobbymkii]

I don't think there's a British football team.

I really don't begrudge foreigners for not understanding why things are the way they are on weird this little island (and corner of an even littler island next door).
For example (and to bring it back on topic, somewhat), Lucy Letby isn't being tried by Britain, she's being tried by England & Wales. Scotland and Northern Ireland are seperate jurisdictions. But Charles was coronated as King of them all last weekend.

 

[katydid23]

I don't think there's a British football team.

There's confusion here in US with the terms soccer, futtball and football. Some get upset if we call it soccer and they say it is actually futball, which translates to foot ball.


"The chief governing body is FIFA - Fédération Internationale de Football Association, though you don't hear people calling it Association football, usually it's soccer or football, and in non-English speaking countries, it is often some form of the word football, written phonetically (e.g. "futbol") or a translation"

To Americans, it's soccer. To most of the rest of the world, (including England, the birthplace of the modern sport,) it's football.

 

[bobbymkii]

There's confusion here in US with the terms soccer, futtball and football. Some get upset if we call it soccer and they say it is actually futball, which translates to foot ball.


"The chief governing body is FIFA - Fédération Internationale de Football Association, though you don't hear people calling it Association football, usually it's soccer or football, and in non-English speaking countries, it is often some form of the word football, written phonetically (e.g. "futbol") or a translation"

To Americans, it's soccer. To most of the rest of the world, (including England, the birthplace of the modern sport,) it's football.

(association) football is a sport where the ball is predominantly played using the players' feet.
(american) football is a sport where the ball is only played with the feet on 4th down if the offense failed to score a touchdown or at kickoff.

 

[katydid23]

(association) football is a sport where the ball is predominantly played using the players' feet.
(american) football is a sport where the ball is only played with the feet on 4th down if the offense failed to score a touchdown or at kickoff.

I know, which is why my OP said Britain's football team, meaning the kind played with their feet. My UK friends say I shouldn't call it soccer so I didn't.