UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #21

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  • #381
11:55am

The trial is now resuming after a short break.
Mr Myers asks Letby about the September 21 events for Child G. The first is at about 10am, the second after 3.15pm.
For that day shift, the court is shown the rota, and Lucy Letby was the designated nurse for Child G that day in room 4, along with two other babies. Two of the three members of the management team were on an office-based day, the court hears.
Lucy Letby was also responsible for a fourth baby 'rooming in with parents', which was, the court hears, a baby staying in on-site accommodation with their parents as the family prepared to go home.
Letby said she would periodically be going to that accommodation to check things were ok and answer any questions parents may have.

 
  • #382
What card?:confused:

This card seemed to pop up out of nowhere a couple of weeks ago. I don't think it was very well covered at the time.
Ah it was the thank you note Baby E and F's parents had sent to the ward that she took a photo of , rather than a card she'd sent to somebody herself.
 
  • #383
12:07pm

Letby's notes for that day are shown to the court.
They include... 'at 1015 x2 large projectile milky vomits, brief self resolving apnoea and desaturation to 35% with colour loss. NG tube aspirated - 30mls undigested milk discarded. Abdomen distended, soft. Drs asked to review. Temperature remains low, tachycardiac >18bpm since vomit. Mum states that [Child G] does not appear as well as she did yesterday...'
The court is shown a feeding chart for Child G. A 40ml feed of expressed breast milk was given at 9.15am, signed by Letby.
After the feed, there were 'two projectile milky vomits', Letby noted. Child G also had a large bowel motion.
Letby says she would have tested the stomach pH level prior to a feed, but would not have aspirated the contents. She says that would not have been needed as Child G was a '40-week baby', and would be treated as a full-term baby by this stage.
Mr Myers asks if it would be known how much milk would be in a baby's stomach. Letby says she would not, as there would only be an aspiration to check for the pH levels.
This projectile vomit "did not leave the cot space", Letby tells the court. She says that would have amounted to 10mls.
Letby says she cannot be sure, but believes Child G's mother would have been present at the time. Letby says she, herself, would have been in the room but not at the cotside of Child G when the vomit happened, and would have been alerted to it by the monitor going off.
She says Child G stabilised after that. Letby said she asked if Child G could be seen 'sooner' than usual on the ward round, as room 4 would normally be the last to be seen.
Letby says there was no large-scale medical response to the incident.
Letby explains care was transferred to another nurse as it was identified Child G required a higher level of care, and Letby was already looking after three babies that day.

12:17pm

The court hears evidence about the second incident on September 21.
Letby says parents would be allowed and in the unit at about 3pm that day. Letby says for this incident, she remembers being 'conscious there were other parents' in the room.
Screens were put up as "normal practice" for privacy, as Child G was having cannulation following her event.
The note records: 'Numerous failed attempts then at cannulation. Finally inserted by Dr Gibbs. Without fluid for 6 hours, as [nil by mouth]. Blood sugars were stable throughout....further significant apnoea/brady/desat following cannulation requiring Neopuff and 100% oxygen. Help summoned...'
Letby says she discovered the desaturation, and called for help. She said Child G had been behind the screen for some time, and had been looking after her other designated babies. She says she was aware the cannulation process took some time, but was not present to see it taking place as it was behing the screens.
A long line chart is shown to the court, which noted the cannula was inserted at the 7th attempt.
Letby said she cannot recall why she went in, but saw behind the screen that she was alone. She was 'dusky and blue and not breathing'.
The monitor was "not on".
Letby says Child G was on the 'procedure trolley' - used for procedures such as cannulation. Letby says the baby should not have been left alone on the trolley like that.
She says she picked up Child G and put her back in her cot, applied Neopuff and called for help.
Letby says she did not know why the monitor was off.
The nurse colleague "froze" and got someone else to help. Another nurse, Caroline Bennion, came in.
Letby said she was "very concerned" about three issues - a baby being unattended on a procedure trolley, alone behind screens, and with a monitor switched off.
Letby said she raised those concerns with a nursing colleague, and was keen to file a 'Datix report'. The nursing colleague was less keen, Letby says, to raise the issue, as the procedure had been carried out by Dr Gibbs.
Letby said she "took assurances" the issues would have been dealt with as discussed.

 
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  • #384
Ah it was the thank you note Baby E and F's parents had sent to the ward that she took a photo of , rather than a card she'd sent to somebody herself.

Yes she had 2 photos of 2 cards on her phone and claims its something she does often for birthday cards etc ..but no sign of any other cards as yet even though electronic evidence from her phone has been presented...and nothing from Myers on it just as far as we can tell
 
  • #385
Dan O'Donoghue
@MrDanDonoghue
·
We're now moving to Child G. She was born in May 2015 and was the most premature of all the babies and had a number of "septic" or "suspected septic" episodes in the weeks after her birth.

The court heard that in mid-August, she was transferred from Wirral's Arrowe Park Hospital and was "clinically stable" until 7 September, when she projectile vomited at about 02:00 BST.



Re Baby G, we're hearing about how she was born in May 2015 and was very premature. But was she actually born at Chester or only transfered there from Arrowe Park in mid August when she was clinically stable?

twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue
 
  • #386
"In the third police interview, Letby was asked again about the September 21, 2015 incident. She said she remembered going behind the screen and seeing Child G. She did not recall seeing a monitor which had been switched off. She denied switching the monitor off."

 
  • #387
The monitor was "not on".
Letby says Child G was on the 'procedure trolley' - used for procedures such as cannulation. Letby says the baby should not have been left alone on the trolley like that.
She says she picked up Child G and put her back in her cot, applied Neopuff and called for help.
Letby says she did not know why the monitor was off.
The nurse colleague "froze" and got someone else to help. Another nurse, Caroline Bennion, came in.
Letby said she was "very concerned" about three issues - a baby being unattended on a procedure trolley, alone behind screens, and with a monitor switched off.
Letby said she raised those concerns with a nursing colleague, and was keen to file a 'Datix report'. The nursing colleague was less keen, Letby says, to raise the issue, as the procedure had been carried out by Dr Gibbs.
Letby said she "took assurances" the issues would have been dealt with as discussed.

Hmmn she's giving far more detail than she ever gave to police about this. JMO
 
  • #388
It seems to me that the only mention of baby G being left on a procedure trolley is LL. She testified she moved her to her cot before calling for help.
 
  • #389
12:24pm

Letby confirms she continued care for Child G after that day.
The case now moves to Child H, a baby girl born on September 22, 2015, weighing 2.33kg.
The court hears Child H did not receive surfactant [a protein which helps the lungs] until 41 hours after her birth.
Child H required three chest drains, and had a number of desaturations in her first few days.
At 3.22am on September 26, Child H had a profound desaturation to 30%. The following morning, Child H had another desaturation to the 40s at 12.55am on September 27.
Letby tells the court she remembers Child H and her care needs, but not specific details without referring to the notes.
She says for September 2015, the unit "was busy at that time".

12:29pm

A message from Letby on September 24 referred to 'staffing levels on the unit' as being "completely unsafe", the court is told.
In a message to another colleague, Sophie Ellis, Letby says: 'Oh Soph it was pretty bad - 18 babies, intubating on handover & a baby with a sugar of 0.1!'
Letby tells the court the capacity was 16 on the unit.
Mr Myers: "Had the unit always been this busy?"
"No." - Letby said it had been getting increasingly busier. She adds she had never seen a baby with chest drains at the Countess until Child H.
She adds she had never seen a baby with three chest drains, even at a tertiary centre. "The most I had seen was two."
Letby said during this time, doctors had to 'look things up' and discussions were held on how to manage the chest drains.
She says from her experience, chest drains were sutured into the skin, so they didn't move.
"Very few" chest drains were kept on the unit. Arrowe Park couriered out some drains, Letby tells the court.

 
  • #390
Do we know what material LL had access to at interview? There are two possibilities here. 1. She is tweaking her evidence to fit with what has been in court. or 2. It's reasonable to expect that you wouldn't remember every detail unless you had access to further information

ETA: it could even be a mixture of 1 & 2.
 
  • #391
Her testimony is becoming farcical she is the heroine of the hour, she seems to be the only nurse at the COC who new what they were doing, and as far as Baby G’ vomiting I’m sure it reached the chair and the floor.According to previous reporting MOO
 
  • #392
Do we know what material LL had access to at interview? There are two possibilities here. 1. She is tweaking her evidence to fit with what has been in court. or 2. It's reasonable to expect that you wouldn't remember every detail unless you had access to further information
It was mentioned for baby A - I haven't checked the others

"For the case of Child A - the first interview took place in July 2018.
Letby was allowed to look through the case notes, and was asked if she remembered the specific shift. She replied: "Yes."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, October 26
 
  • #393
It seems to me that the only mention of baby G being left on a procedure trolley is LL. She testified she moved her to her cot before calling for help.
Easy to verify, though, I'd she did indeed file a report on it.
 
  • #394
Easy to verify, though, I'd she did indeed file a report on it.
She didn't according to the link above:

Letby said she raised those concerns with a nursing colleague, and was keen to file a 'Datix report'. The nursing colleague was less keen, Letby says, to raise the issue, as the procedure had been carried out by Dr Gibbs.
Letby said she "took assurances" the issues would have been dealt with as discussed.


I can't remember if we've heard from the colleague to see if they verified this conversation.
 
  • #395
She didn't according to the link above:

Letby said she raised those concerns with a nursing colleague, and was keen to file a 'Datix report'. The nursing colleague was less keen, Letby says, to raise the issue, as the procedure had been carried out by Dr Gibbs.
Letby said she "took assurances" the issues would have been dealt with as discussed.


I can't remember if we've heard from the colleague to see if they verified this conversation.
"Mr Myers said: “I suggest Ms Letby was cross that the doctors had left her behind the screen with the monitor off?”

The nurse said: “I don’t remember that.

“I remember her being concerned.”

Mr Myers said: “Do you recall she said this is something to make a formal complaint about?”

The witness replied: “I don’t remember but I went to my manager to report it myself without anyone suggesting it.”

 
  • #396
12:32pm

A nursing handover sheet for September 23, 2015, recovered from Letby's home in the 'Morrisons bag', is shown to the court.
Letby is asked why she had that sheet, and four others with Child H on it. "It has just come back with me inadvertenly and was left at home.
"They have not been taken out of my pocket at the end of the shift and I have taken them home."
Mr Myers: "Did you mean to take them home?"
Letby: "No."
Letby adds she did not know she had that many handover sheets at her house. "I did not keep track of them.

12:37pm

The nursing notes by Letby for September 25-26 are shown to the court.
They include: '...x2 chest drains in situ at start of shift - intermittently swinging. Serous fluid++ accumulating.
'2330 bradycardia and desaturation requiring neopuff in 100% to recover. 10ml air aspirated from chest drain...following poor blood gas and 100% oxygen requirement consultant Gibbs attended the unit and inserted a third chest drain. All 3 drains swinging...
'[Child H] desaturating++ on handling - minimal handling observed when possible. At 0322 profound desaturation and colour loss to 30%, good chest movement and air entry, colour change on CO2 detector...Neopuff commenced...Serous fluid++ from all 3 drains. Became bradycardiac. Drs crash called and resus commenced...'

12:40pm

Letby is asked about the chest drains 'swinging' - she says that shows they are working, with fluid moving back and forth the drain as needed.
Serous fluid is naturally occuring fluid in the body.
For September 25-26, Child H was the only baby in room 1, and Letby was the designated nurse that night. She required two nurses on a high level of care, and Letby had a colleague to assist her with drugs for Child H and maintenance of the chest drains.

12:46pm

Letby refers to a note 'at 0200 blood transfusion completed', saying the timing of that is an error, and should be 3am.
A blood transfusion chart shows the transfusion had started at 3pm on September 25, and ended at 3.05am on September 26. The note is co-signed by Letby.
A separate chart, with Letby's handwriting, shows 'chest drain 0210' and a bolus at 0250. The 'blood complete' is sometime after 3am, prior to 3.24am, Letby tells the court.
Letby says the '2am' note error she made was nothing "sinister", and 'just a mistake', and other accessible notes showed the timing the blood transfusion for Child H stopped at 3am.

12:52pm

A message from Yvonne Griffiths, part of the management team, to Letby is shown to the court, in which she commends Letby for her hard work over the previous shifts. The message is on September 26. She adds: 'You composed yourself very well during a stressful situation' and it was good to see her confidence grow.
Letby relayed that message to a colleague.
Letby said this message exchange had followed a disagreement over baptism for Child H. Yvonne Griffiths had felt it was 'not appropriate for that time of night' as Child H had stabilised at that point and the shift was busy.
Further messages between Letby and her colleague are exchanged.
Letby says, for context, she was 'choosing not to have [Child H] due to lack of approporiate support' as she wanted extra staff to assist her in the care of Child H, as Child H had several chest drains for which she had not been familiar with.

12:56pm

Letby's response to Yvonne Griffiths: 'Thank you. That's really nice to hear as I gather you are aware of some of the not so positive comments that have been made recently regarding my role which I have found quite upsetting. Our job is a pleasure to do & just hope I do the best for the babies & their family.'
Letby tells the court there had been frustration about comments made by colleagues that Letby and another nurse were being allocated room 1 shifts on the rotas, and there was frustration about the unit being 'busy'.
Letby agrees the court the frustration was 'particularly prominent at this time' and did not go beyond this period in September 2015.

 
  • #397
It seems to me that the only mention of baby G being left on a procedure trolley is LL. She testified she moved her to her cot before calling for help.

This was my worry when the nurse came forward during court to say she remembered the consultant apologised for leaving monitor off ...its only LLS word that that happened.

Forgetting to attach a monitor is one thing but leaving a tiny baby on a procedure trolley ?
 
  • #398
She didn't according to the link above:

Letby said she raised those concerns with a nursing colleague, and was keen to file a 'Datix report'. The nursing colleague was less keen, Letby says, to raise the issue, as the procedure had been carried out by Dr Gibbs.
Letby said she "took assurances" the issues would have been dealt with as discussed.


I can't remember if we've heard from the colleague to see if they verified this conversation.

IMO if guilty, this additional detail has been added since the other nurse pointed out in court that she had complained about the doctors for not switching the monitor back on and that they'd apologised. LL was first on the scene so presumably the nurse heard this from LL. Before that LL made absolutely no mention of any of this in any of her police interviews. And when Myer's put it to the other nurse that LL had encouraged her to make a formal complaint (which again presumably came from LL) the nurse said she didn't remember that happening at all and said she made a complaint off her own back.

We've heard how LL often reported others' errors so I think the chance that LL found a baby had been left on a procedure trolley and not only didn't make a complaint but then completely forgot about it for years, even whilst being accused of the baby's attempted murder, is... remote. JMO,

All JMO, if guilty.
 
  • #399
That case broke my heart and I won't read any new children's cases ever since, as it's too upsetting.

The very idea of that beautiful bright mixed race little boy who looked just like his real dad, living with a racist violent abuser and his mini me violent teen aged protege doesn't bear thinking about - the lived reality of that poor child day in day out during lockdown and the excruciating pain he lived with before death :(

Apologies for going off topic. LL case is one of the last 'child' cases I'm following now and then I'm strictly adults only!
I feel exactly the same. One of the most upsetting things I've ever heard or read about.
 
  • #400
A nursing handover sheet for September 23, 2015, recovered from Letby's home in the 'Morrisons bag', is shown to the court.
Letby is asked why she had that sheet, and four others with Child H on it. "It has just come back with me inadvertenly and was left at home.
"They have not been taken out of my pocket at the end of the shift and I have taken them home."
Mr Myers: "Did you mean to take them home?"
Letby: "No."
Letby adds she did not know she had that many handover sheets at her house. "I did not keep track of them.
The shift of 23 Sep, not a shift with any charges, was in the Morrisons bag.

Baby H was born on 22 Sep.

She is accused of attempting to murder baby H twice, on night-shifts of 25/26 Sep, and 26/27 Sep.
 
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