UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #22

[Tortoise]

3:55pm

Mr Johnson moves on to the shift in which Letby was present. A shift rota is shown to the court, showing Letby was looking after two babies that night on June 13. She was in nursery room 3, with Child C in room 1 that night.
Mr Johnson says this was another shift when Letby had "migrated" to room 1.
Letby: "Yes, in response to [Child C's] care needs." She says she has no recollection of going to see Child C prior to his collapse.
Letby says she was unhappy at being in room 3 for that shift - as opposed to room 1 - but that was the decision of the prior shift leader.
Letby's nursing colleague had said Letby's designated baby in room 3 needed attention, after Letby had asked if she could be redeployed to room 1 that night.
Letby: "Yes, [they] did need attention and I gave [them] attention."
Letby had sent a message to Jennifer Jones-Key: "I just keep thinking about Mon. Feel like I need to be in 1 to overcome it but [colleague] said no x"
JJK: "I agree with her don't think it will help. You need a break from full on ITU. You have to let it go or it will eat you up i know not easy and will take time x"
LL: "Not the vented baby necessarily. I just feel I need to be in 1 to get the image out of my head, Mel has said the same and [colleague] let her go. Being in 3 is eating me up, all I can see is him in 1"
"It probably sounds odd but it's how I feel X"
JJK: "Well it's up to you but don't think it's going to help. It sounds very odd and I would be complete opposite. Can understand [colleague] she trying to look after you all"
LL: "Well that's how I feel, from when I've experienced it at women's I've needed to go straight back and have a sick baby otherwise the image of the one you lost never goes. Why send Mel in if she's trying to look after us, She was in bits over it. X
"Don't expect people to understand but I know how I feel and how I've dealt with it before, I've voiced that so can't do anymore but people should respect that X"
JJK: "Ok x
JJK: "I think They do respect it but also trying to help you. Why don't you go in one for a bit. X"
LL: "Yeah I've done couple of meds in 1. I'll be fine X"
JJK: "It didn't sound like you would be? Sorry was eating my tea x"
LL: ...Forget i said anything, I'll be fine,It's part of the job just don't feel like there is much team spirit tonight X"
JJK: "...I'm not going to forget but just think your way to hard on yourself. It is part of the job but the worst part but I do believe it makes us stronger people."
LL: "Unfortunately I've seen my fair share at the women's but you are supported differently & here it's like people want to tell you how to think/Feel. Anyway. Onwards & upwards. Just shame i'm on with Mel & [colleague].Sophie in 1 so haven't got her to talk to either."
JJK: "Work is work.
A lot of the girls say women's don't support and tell them to get on with it. I think they don't mean to tell you thou and were over caring sometimes
Yeah that's not good but you got Liz x"
LL: "Women's can be awful but I learnt hard way that you have to speak up to get support. I lost a baby one day.and few hours later was given another dying baby just born in the same cot space. Girls there said it was important to overcome the image. It was awful but by.end of day i realised they were right. It's just different here X
"Anyway, forget it. I can only talk about it properly with those who knew him and Mel not interested so I'll overcome it myself. You get some sleep X"
Letby accepts there were two babies in room 1, but does not accept she was specifically wanting to look after Child C.
Letby tells the court: "It wasn't about me wanting to get my own way."
Letby accepts she was upset, "just generally", that her feeings weren't being considered by a colleague and Melanie Taylor.
Mr Johnson says if this was the Melanie Taylor who Letby had said "potentially" caused a child's death. Letby: "Potentially, yes."
JJK: "That's a bit mean isn't it. Don't have to know him to understand we've all been there. Yep off to bed now x"
LL: "I don't mean it like that, just that only those who saw him know what image i have in my head X
"Forget it. Im obviously making more of it than I should X"
Letby tells the court she had hoped Jennifer Jones-Key would have been more understanding to how she was feeling, and was frustrated, and the conversation was not going anywhere, so she wanted to "leave the conversation".

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 18 - prosecution cross-examines Letby

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Sweeper2000]

As others have said, though, she messaged someone to tell them that the dad was on the floor howling. How does anyone not recall that? You might not necessarily relate to a particular baby but it's inconceivable to me that you wouldn't remember it, especially if it was so noteworthy that you messaged someone about it.

Yeh that’s what I find worrying. Is she really that detached she wouldn’t remember it ? With it being withoutadoubt a significant thing? As I say it’s not the kind of thing you lie about.

That wasn't what she said and was corrected months later in evidence. She said that she wouldn't especially know what the symptoms might be, not that she didn't know it was dangerous.

yeh I find it worrying that she didn’t follow it up with anything. Almost like pledging ignorance to something she undoubtedly knew about. Even if she didn’t know the symptoms she could still have said “it’s very very dangerous” even that would go some way.

 

[notsure]

From what's been reported, LL seems to be standing up to the cross-examination very well. If it were me, I would be a gibbering wreck at this point.

 

[Jazmania]

Oh dear another very conflicting piece of evidence. I think we have enough to assume this is an individual that doesn’t leave work at work hence the handovers but we also have her saying she doesn’t remember the dad on the floor. That’s such A memorable thing and something one wouldn’t forget if they were truly a caring and over involved nurse. I’m getting a cold vibe if it’s true but it’s also not something one would lie about. Assuming she’s being truthful that might mean she is in fact cold and thrives on the emotional turmoil of others. Oh dear.

I could understand her forgetting that if all she saw of that event was just a passing glance of him on the floor through a doorway or window. I can’t see a truly caring and over involved nurse forgetting it though. That would be a profound memory.

It’s also not something one would lie about - unless one is a compulsive liar who lies because that is what comes naturally. So far she's been caught in several lies that really have no benefit to her. Lying to say she doesn't have a shredder. Why? Lying to say that student nurses aren't given handout notes. Why?

 

[Tortoise]

3:58pm

Letby says colleague Sophie Ellis was the least experienced member of staff on that shift and "did not have the skills for the job" of looking after small, premature babies in room 1.
"I did not think she was qualified for the job...She did not have the skills for the premature babies [in room 1]."
She denies that Sophie Ellis did anything to cause Child C's collapse.
Mr Johnson: "She had something you wanted?"
Letby: "No."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 18 - prosecution cross-examines Letby

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

Posted at 15:5715:57

Letby tells court she wanted to be in baby C's room​

Dan O'Donoghue
At Manchester Crown Court
The court is once again shown a text message nurse Letby sent to a nursing colleague during her shift on the 13 June.
In that message, Letby said: "I just feel I need to be in 1 to get the image out of my head....being 3 is eating me up, all I can see is him in 1."
Letby has previously explained that when working at Liverpool Women’s Hospital she had “lost a baby one day and a few hours later was given another dying baby just by the same cot space”.
Letby tells the court that being placed in nursery three at that time, instead of one, had made her feel upset.
"I didn't feel my feelings were being considered," she said.

Posted at 16:0516:05

Nurse left with baby C did not have experience, Letby says​

Nick Johnson KC continues his questioning.
"You wanted to be in nursery one, your wish was being frustrated by management and in your view the person who had what you wanted, to look after the non-vented baby in nursery one, wasn’t sufficiently qualified for the job."
Letby said the nurse designated to care for baby C had recently qualified and "did not have the experience or skills" to care for a premature boy like him.
Jurors have heard that Sophie Ellis, the nurse caring for baby C, went briefly to the nurses' station during her shift and whilst there she heard baby C's monitor sound an alarm.
When she re-entered nursery one, she said nurse Letby was already standing next to the cot and told her: "He's just dropped his heart rate and saturations."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-65602988

 

[notsure]

It’s also not something one would lie about - unless one is a compulsive liar who lies because that is what comes naturally. So far she's been caught in several lies that really have no benefit to her. Lying to say she doesn't have a shredder. Why? Lying to say that student nurses aren't given handout notes. Why?

Or she's not thinking rationally. She's fighting for her life after years in jail, on medication for anxiety and depression.

 

[Sweeper2000]

It’s also not something one would lie about - unless one is a compulsive liar who lies because that is what comes naturally. So far she's been caught in several lies that really have no benefit to her. Lying to say she doesn't have a shredder. Why? Lying to say that student nurses aren't given handout notes. Why?

I don’t think she was lying about the shredder, I don’t think she is necessarily lying about anything else either. That still doesn’t look good for her.

”ll why don’t you remember the dad crying on the floor”. “Because it wasn’t significant“.

there is another potential here, has enough significant things happened in her life since that would mean that that memory if not personally significant would have become so distant and insignificant compared to what has happened since That she genuinely doesn’t remember it?

 

[ColourPurple]

Letby asked if Child C's designated nurse 'had something she wanted'​

Nick Johnson KC pulls up texts between Lucy Letby and another nurse sent during the evening of 13 June 2015 in which Letby talks about wanting to go back into intensive nursery one to overcome the incidents with Child A and B.
"Did you feel like you weren't getting your own way?" he asks the defendant, referring to the fact she was placed in a lower dependency nursery that night.
"It wasn't about having my own way," she replies.
Letby says she was frustrated at the time because she didn't think her feelings were being considered by colleagues on the unit.
Mr Johnson asks if Letby wanted attention from the nurse she was texting that night.
"I don't think attention is the right word, I just wanted recognition from a friend to acknowledge how I was feeling," she says.
Other nurses on duty during the 13-14 June night shift have been questioned on Letby's behalf, on whether Child C's designated nurse in nursery one was in the correct position to look after the baby.
"Is that your position?" asks Mr Johnson.
Letby says the nurse was recently qualified and didn't have experience of looking after small premature babies like Child C who needed close monitoring.
"She had something you wanted?" Mr Johnson puts to Letby.
"No," she responds.

Lucy Letby trial: Facebook searches of nurse accused of murdering babies read out in court

Lucy Letby, a former neonatal nurse, has been back in court for another day of cross-examination by the prosecution on Friday. She is accused of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of 10 others, and denies all the charges.

news.sky.com

 

[Tortoise]

From what's been reported, LL seems to be standing up to the cross-examination very well. If it were me, I would be a gibbering wreck at this point.

The evidence of her as a person is of her standing up for herself. IMO

 

[katydid23]

Didn’t the prosecution say that at least three bags of glucose were contaminated? Coz the readings stay the same.

That was one of their possible theories---the other was that the nurses rehung the initial one the it was tissued---but didn't want to admit it

 

[Blondiexoxo]

I feel like out of all the evidence we’ve heard over the last few months today’s cross examination is what has hit home the most IMO. The first handover sheet in that keepsake box seems extremely suspicious. Could this have been going on since 2010? JMO but after today I feel that it could be a possibility, to keep a handover sheet in pristine condition, in a keepsake box with roses on. And then over the following years collect even more, 257 to be exact, it’s sounding more and more like these really were trophies of some kind, and that’s why LL is denying that they were significant and denying that she knew they existed. All MOO

 

[SusanDonim]

I’m not sure you can paint the picture being taken on the ward as unusual. If you think about it, her taking photos of such things if not unusual the unit was the last place she could. The last opportunity for her to take the photo.

If she wrote the card elsewhere, why not take the photo there and then? Did she not seal the envelope after writing it? Seems bizarre to me.

 

[Tortoise]

4:06pm

The court hears Sophie Ellis's statement saying when she entered room 1, Letby was by Child C's cotside, saying: "He's just dropped..his heart rate/saturations" or words to that effect.
The court is shown the neonatal schedule for the night shift of June 13-14, 2015. Letby is shown recording observations for her designated babies, and made medication prescriptions for babies not in room 1.
Letby says the medications for those babies would have been drawn up in room 1. "They could not have been done in a special care nursery".
Letby says if Sophie Ellis has documented correctly, there would have been no air in Child C's stomach after an aspiration was made for the baby's feed.
Letby denies taking, in Mr Johnson's words: "an opportunity to sabotage [Child C]."

4:13pm

In police interview, it is put to Letby that Child C collapsed six minutes after she sent the last of her text messages.
Letby: "I don't recall where I was at the time" - Letby says she may have been in a nursing station before going into room 1.
Letby said she did not recall being cotside, but accepted Sophie Ellis's account at the time it was put to her by police.
"The death of [Child C] was very memorable, wasn't it?"
"Yes."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 18 - prosecution cross-examines Letby

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[esther43]

From what's been reported, LL seems to be standing up to the cross-examination very well. If it were me, I would be a gibbering wreck at this point.

They haven't gotten in to her daddy issues yet.

 

[Sweeper2000]

That was one of their possible theories---the other was that the nurses rehung the initial one the it was tissued---but didn't want to admit it

That’s all a reference to the second alleged insulin poisoning. Not the tpn bags for child f which were solely for baby f. the tpn is solely for baby f whereas the glucose bags are for generic applications.

 

[Cluedoneit]

Re-direct isn't a rebuttal witness thing. After the prosecution has finished its cross the defendant's counsel gets to do the re-direct. That is to clarify anything that has been said in the cross. The cross is a time for leading 'yes' and 'no' type answers. The re-direct is for the defendant to say 'yes, I meant it *this* way and not *that* way (or whatever the prosecution has tried to imply).

Rebuttal is when in certain circumstances the prosecution is allowed to recall witnesses for the prosecution once the defence rests. It requires specific authority from the Judge and is usually used when the defence introduces new information that the prosecution couldn’t have known, such as when the defendant starts calling evidence already Accepted by her barrister ( via lack of cross examination) incorrect. This is why it was so important for Myers to ‘clarify’ that he had put to Dr J that Letby wasn’t there, and why it was important that the Judge confirmed Myers hadn’t. Obviously all in my opinion.

 

[Tortoise]

Posted at 16:1516:15

I was disappointed not to be with baby C, Letby says​

Johnson is now quoting from Letby's police interviews. In one she was asked about a message exchange with a colleague while on shift on 13 June.
The detective in that interview said: “The text messages suggest you were frustrated at not working in nursery one, do you agree?”
The defendant said: “Yes, I think it would have helped me if I could have been in nursery one.”
Johnson asks if she was "frustrated", Letby says she was "disappointed".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-65602988

 

[WaxLyrical]

I feel like out of all the evidence we’ve heard over the last few months today’s cross examination is what has hit home the most IMO. The first handover sheet in that keepsake box seems extremely suspicious. Could this have been going on since 2010? JMO but after today I feel that it could be a possibility, to keep a handover sheet in pristine condition, in a keepsake box with roses on. And then over the following years collect even more, 257 to be exact, it’s sounding more and more like these really were trophies of some kind, and that’s why LL is denying that they were significant and denying that she knew they existed. All MOO

Death rates remained consistent at the hospital until 2015/16.

 

[Tortoise]

16:17

That concludes proceedings for today​

Dan O'Donoghue
At Manchester Crown Court
Nick Johnson KC will resume his cross examination tomorrow morning.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-65602988