Actually it seems my comment was based on a summary of evidence rather than the exact words of the discussion. It's hard to keep up this is moving so fast!
UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #22
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Actually it seems my comment was based on a summary of evidence rather than the exact words of the discussion. It's hard to keep up this is moving so fast!
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Oh good point. One of the female doctors was unnamed.
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Speckled Jim did make me smile IYKYK !
I too am going to run out of “ what the actual “ today.
I too am going to run out of “ what the actual “ today.
Could the unmentioned dr in the gang of 4 be anyone other than dr choc?
Only because, he was helping her? Telling her information he wasn’t supposed to be (unless that was some kind of ruse to have her slip up, but then I gathered he joined the unit part way through the time period in question so was a newcomer to knowing Lucy.. surely that makes the idea he was pursuing a closer relationship with her much less likely to be to feed her information and try and find evidence of her potential wrong doings?
Only because, he was helping her? Telling her information he wasn’t supposed to be (unless that was some kind of ruse to have her slip up, but then I gathered he joined the unit part way through the time period in question so was a newcomer to knowing Lucy.. surely that makes the idea he was pursuing a closer relationship with her much less likely to be to feed her information and try and find evidence of her potential wrong doings?
WaxLyrical
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I wonder if that’s the same one she’s saying kept going for cigarettes?
Known henceforth as Dr Cig? Lol
12:20
Judith Moritz
Inside the courtroom
Lucy Letby is now asked about the two babies in the case who she's accused of poisoning with insulin.
She agrees that both babies were given insulin unlawfully, but that it was not given by her.
Lucy Letby says: "I don’t believe that any staff on the unit would make a mistake in giving insulin."
Nick Johnson KC: "Mistake is not an option here, so it was deliberate poisoning by someone, but not you?"
Lucy Letby: "Insulin has been added by somebody but I can’t say by who, just that it wasn’t me".
12:22
She is asked what she knew, from her training, about the dangers of air embolism.
Letby answers: "I think every nurse knows that injecting air into a patient can lead to death."
Letby says it wasn't her that gave babies insulin
Judith Moritz
Inside the courtroom
Lucy Letby is now asked about the two babies in the case who she's accused of poisoning with insulin.
She agrees that both babies were given insulin unlawfully, but that it was not given by her.
Lucy Letby says: "I don’t believe that any staff on the unit would make a mistake in giving insulin."
Nick Johnson KC: "Mistake is not an option here, so it was deliberate poisoning by someone, but not you?"
Lucy Letby: "Insulin has been added by somebody but I can’t say by who, just that it wasn’t me".
12:22
Prosecution asks Letby what she knew about injecting air
Lucy Letby is alleged to have attacked some of the babies by injecting air into their stomachs or bloodstreams.She is asked what she knew, from her training, about the dangers of air embolism.
Letby answers: "I think every nurse knows that injecting air into a patient can lead to death."
How would she arrive at that conclusion?
She is denying it was targeted but admitting it was deliberate, without, she claims, being the person who did it.
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Exactly. How would she even know whether they were targeted or not?
12:12pm
Letby is asked about the dangers of unprescribed insulin.
Letby: "It would cause them to be unwell, it would cause them to be hypoglacaemic... seizures, apnoea, even death."
12:16pm
Letby is asked about her training which, when completed, allowed her to care for intensive care babies.
Letby is asked if that meant she would have access to room 1 more often than before. Letby agrees.
The training involved education about lines, access, and the complication of air embolous, the court hears.
Letby said she had heard of air embolous by the time police interviewed her.
She tells the court: "All staff know that air introduced...can lead to death."
NJ: "Everybody knows the danger of air embolous."
LL: "I can't speak for everyone."
12:18pm
Mr Johnson asks about the case of Child A.
Letby says she did have independent memory of Child A.
"Before [Child A], had you ever known a child to die unexpectedly within 24 hours of birth?"
LL: "I can't recall - I'm not sure."
Letby says she can recall "two or three" baby deaths prior at the Countess of Chester Hospital, and "several" at her placement in Liverpool Women's Hospital.
Mr Johnson says Letby had previously told police it was "two" at Liverpool. Letby says her memory would have been clearer back then.
12:24pm
Letby says it was discussed at the time Child A's antiphospholipid syndrome could have been a contributing factor at the time.
Letby tells the court "in part", staffing levels were a contributing part in Child A's death, due to a lack of fluids for four hours and issues with the UVC line.
She says they were "contributing factors", and put Child A "at increased risk of collapse".
"I can't tell you how [Child A] died, but there were contributing factors that were missed."
Letby says the issues with Child A's lines "made him more vulnerable", with one of the lines "not being connected to anything".
Letby is asked why she didn't record this on a 'Datix form'.
LL: "It was discussed amongst staff at the time...I didn't feel the need to do a Datix, it had been raised verbally with two senior staff, one Dr Jayaram, one a senior nursing staff."
She adds: "I don't know why [Child A] died."
Letby says if the cause of death was established as air embolous, then it would have come from the person connecting the fluids, "which wasn't me".
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
Letby is asked about the dangers of unprescribed insulin.
Letby: "It would cause them to be unwell, it would cause them to be hypoglacaemic... seizures, apnoea, even death."
12:16pm
Letby is asked about her training which, when completed, allowed her to care for intensive care babies.
Letby is asked if that meant she would have access to room 1 more often than before. Letby agrees.
The training involved education about lines, access, and the complication of air embolous, the court hears.
Letby said she had heard of air embolous by the time police interviewed her.
She tells the court: "All staff know that air introduced...can lead to death."
NJ: "Everybody knows the danger of air embolous."
LL: "I can't speak for everyone."
12:18pm
Mr Johnson asks about the case of Child A.
Letby says she did have independent memory of Child A.
"Before [Child A], had you ever known a child to die unexpectedly within 24 hours of birth?"
LL: "I can't recall - I'm not sure."
Letby says she can recall "two or three" baby deaths prior at the Countess of Chester Hospital, and "several" at her placement in Liverpool Women's Hospital.
Mr Johnson says Letby had previously told police it was "two" at Liverpool. Letby says her memory would have been clearer back then.
12:24pm
Letby says it was discussed at the time Child A's antiphospholipid syndrome could have been a contributing factor at the time.
Letby tells the court "in part", staffing levels were a contributing part in Child A's death, due to a lack of fluids for four hours and issues with the UVC line.
She says they were "contributing factors", and put Child A "at increased risk of collapse".
"I can't tell you how [Child A] died, but there were contributing factors that were missed."
Letby says the issues with Child A's lines "made him more vulnerable", with one of the lines "not being connected to anything".
Letby is asked why she didn't record this on a 'Datix form'.
LL: "It was discussed amongst staff at the time...I didn't feel the need to do a Datix, it had been raised verbally with two senior staff, one Dr Jayaram, one a senior nursing staff."
She adds: "I don't know why [Child A] died."
Letby says if the cause of death was established as air embolous, then it would have come from the person connecting the fluids, "which wasn't me".
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 18 - prosecution cross-examines Letby
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
WaxLyrical
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Because she’s being deliberately tied up in knots, right?
Was it poisoning? The experts say yes, there’s not alternative
Could it have been done accidentally? No I don’t think it could
Therefore it follows those babies were deliberately poisoned/targeted? Can’t deny this now.
Who was it? I don’t know, it wasn’t me.
What else is she supposed to say here?
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OK, SO IT IS NOT ONLY THE GANG OF FOUR, IT IS ALSO HER NURSE FRIEND WHO IS GUILTY, NOT HER
Dan O'Donoghue
Mr Johnson has just been asking Ms Letby about Child A, her first alleged victim - who medical experts say died as as result of an injection of ai
Mr Johnson asks Ms Lebty if she believed another nurse, Melanie Taylor, was responsible for air getting into Child A's system. She says she doesn't know why Child A died, but says if nurse Taylor attached his lines and if air embolism is the cause, then yes
Dan O'Donoghue
Mr Johnson has just been asking Ms Letby about Child A, her first alleged victim - who medical experts say died as as result of an injection of ai
Mr Johnson asks Ms Lebty if she believed another nurse, Melanie Taylor, was responsible for air getting into Child A's system. She says she doesn't know why Child A died, but says if nurse Taylor attached his lines and if air embolism is the cause, then yes
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But she also said No, they were not targeted. How would she know that if it wasn't her and she knew nothing about it?
12:27pm
Mr Johnson: "Do you accept you were by [Child A] at the time he collapsed?"
LL: "I accept that I was in his cot space, checking equipment, yes...I was in his close vicinity."
NJ: "Could you reach out and touch him?"
LL: "I could touch his incubator - the incubator was closed."
NJ: "Could you touch his lines?"
LL: "No."
12:32pm
Letby says "there's no way of knowing" from the signatures, who administered the medication between the two nurses, Letby or nurse Melanie Taylor.
Dr David Harkness recalled to the court: "There was a very unusual patchiness of the skin, which I have never seen before, and only seen since in cases at the Countess of Chester Hospital."
Letby disagrees with that skin colour description for Child A.
She agrees with Dr Harkness that Child A had "mottling", with "purple and white patches".
Letby says she cannot recall any blotchiness.
"I didn't see it - if he says he saw it...that's for him to justify.
"It's not something I saw.
"I was present and I did not see those."
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
Mr Johnson: "Do you accept you were by [Child A] at the time he collapsed?"
LL: "I accept that I was in his cot space, checking equipment, yes...I was in his close vicinity."
NJ: "Could you reach out and touch him?"
LL: "I could touch his incubator - the incubator was closed."
NJ: "Could you touch his lines?"
LL: "No."
12:32pm
Letby says "there's no way of knowing" from the signatures, who administered the medication between the two nurses, Letby or nurse Melanie Taylor.
Dr David Harkness recalled to the court: "There was a very unusual patchiness of the skin, which I have never seen before, and only seen since in cases at the Countess of Chester Hospital."
Letby disagrees with that skin colour description for Child A.
She agrees with Dr Harkness that Child A had "mottling", with "purple and white patches".
Letby says she cannot recall any blotchiness.
"I didn't see it - if he says he saw it...that's for him to justify.
"It's not something I saw.
"I was present and I did not see those."
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 18 - prosecution cross-examines Letby
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
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Defendant says Child F and Child L not deliberately attacked with insulin
Lucy Letby is asked if she believes Child F and Child L were specifically targeted via insulin poisoning.She disagrees that someone targeted Child F.
In the case of Child L, she agrees that he was poisoned with insulin as per his blood results but does not know if there was intent to cause harm.
"Knowing what you know about blood sugar readings, what are the realistic possibilities in Child L's case?" Nick Johnson KC, for the prosecution, asks.
Letby says she doesn't believe any staff on the unit would "make a mistake and give insulin".
"Mistake not possible in this case, is it?" Mr Johnson says.
"No," Letby replies.
Mr Johnson asks if Letby believes there was deliberate poisoning by someone but not her.
"Insulin was added by somebody, I can't comment on how or who, just that it was not me."
Asked to describe the dangers of non-prescribed insulin, Letby says "it would cause them to be unwell, they would become hypoglycaemic and with that comes a number of problems, such as seizures, apnoea, even death".
Lucy Letby trial: Facebook searches of nurse accused of murdering babies read out in court
Lucy Letby, a former neonatal nurse, has been back in court for another day of cross-examination by the prosecution on Friday. She is accused of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of 10 others, and denies all the charges.
"Do you agree [Child L] was poisoned with insulin?"
"From the blood results, yes."
"Do you agree that someone targeted him specifically?"
"No...I don't know how the insulin got there."
Letby adds: "I don't believe that any member of staff on the unit would make a mistake in giving insulin."
The judge asks if that is the case for Child E.
Letby agrees.
She denies it was her who administered the insulin.
-------
This exchange is quite revealing imo. She clarifies, on her own accord, that nobody would give insulin accidently. It is pretty much confirmed and accepted the babies were poisoned, now its just about showing LL is the type of person who could do those things imo
"From the blood results, yes."
"Do you agree that someone targeted him specifically?"
"No...I don't know how the insulin got there."
Letby adds: "I don't believe that any member of staff on the unit would make a mistake in giving insulin."
The judge asks if that is the case for Child E.
Letby agrees.
She denies it was her who administered the insulin.
-------
This exchange is quite revealing imo. She clarifies, on her own accord, that nobody would give insulin accidently. It is pretty much confirmed and accepted the babies were poisoned, now its just about showing LL is the type of person who could do those things imo
12:27
Judith Moritz
Inside the courtroom
There are 17 in total - the nurse is accused of murdering seven and attempting to murder another 10.
Because we can't name the babies, we are listing them in alphabetical order, as they are set out, chronologically, on the indictment.
The charges run from June 2015-June 2016.
12:29
Nick Johnson KC adds: "Is it the case that the staffing levels at the Countess of Chester Hospital contributed to Baby A’s death?"
Lucy Letby responds: "In part, yes".
She says she believes that the fact baby A spent 4 hours without fluids contributed to his death.
Lucy Letby says it was another nurse who had the access to baby A's tube lines. She does not accept that she was standing over the baby when he collapsed.
Nick Johnson KC now turns to the babies in the case
Judith Moritz
Inside the courtroom
There are 17 in total - the nurse is accused of murdering seven and attempting to murder another 10.
Because we can't name the babies, we are listing them in alphabetical order, as they are set out, chronologically, on the indictment.
The charges run from June 2015-June 2016.
12:29
Did staffing levels contribute to baby A's death, Letby asked
Nick Johnson KC asks about baby A - a boy twin - who Lucy Letby is accused of murdering in June 2015. She denies this (and all the charges).Nick Johnson KC adds: "Is it the case that the staffing levels at the Countess of Chester Hospital contributed to Baby A’s death?"
Lucy Letby responds: "In part, yes".
She says she believes that the fact baby A spent 4 hours without fluids contributed to his death.
Lucy Letby says it was another nurse who had the access to baby A's tube lines. She does not accept that she was standing over the baby when he collapsed.
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But how would she know that?
She wasn't being asked who did it. She was being asked if she thought it was targeted at the baby. She's answered no, rather than don't know.
These are straight forward questions, not tricks. She should be able to answer without twisting herself in knots. IMO
OK, SO IT IS NOT ONLY THE GANG OF FOUR, IT IS ALSO HER NURSE FRIEND WHO IS GUILTY, NOT HER
Dan O'Donoghue
Mr Johnson has just been asking Ms Letby about Child A, her first alleged victim - who medical experts say died as as result of an injection of ai
Mr Johnson asks Ms Lebty if she believed another nurse, Melanie Taylor, was responsible for air getting into Child A's system. She says she doesn't know why Child A died, but says if nurse Taylor attached his lines and if air embolism is the cause, then yes
Wow.
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This is an important admissionShe tells the court: "All staff know that air introduced...can lead to death."
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 18 - prosecution cross-examines Letby
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
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