UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #22

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  • #381
I don't see how it couldn't be significant to her. Put yourself in that moment. What a dreadful thing to witness, for anyone. In my opinion, if a lie, it's an astonishing misstep.
I doubt it’s a lie, imo it’s just yet more evidence as to how self centred she is. As Sweeper eloquently stated,’ it was nothing personally significant to her’. It’s just her third death ever and most likely the first and only time she saw a father collapse to the floor in grief. What could possibly be personally significant about that?
 
  • #382
  • #383
I don't see how it couldn't be significant to her. Put yourself in that moment. What a dreadful thing to witness, for anyone. In my opinion, if a lie, it's an astonishing misstep.
Oh dear another very conflicting piece of evidence. I think we have enough to assume this is an individual that doesn’t leave work at work hence the handovers but we also have her saying she doesn’t remember the dad on the floor. That’s such A memorable thing and something one wouldn’t forget if they were truly a caring and over involved nurse. I’m getting a cold vibe if it’s true but it’s also not something one would lie about. Assuming she’s being truthful that might mean she is in fact cold and thrives on the emotional turmoil of others. Oh dear.

I could understand her forgetting that if all she saw of that event was just a passing glance of him on the floor through a doorway or window. I can’t see a truly caring and over involved nurse forgetting it though. That would be a profound memory.
 
  • #384
here we go...tears


Posted at 15:3215:32

Letby cries as she is asked if she enjoyed what happened​

Dan O'Donoghue
At Manchester Crown Court
Nick Johnson KC is quoting Lucy Letby's police interviews in relation to baby C.
She told officers that she "did nothing to injure him" and that she "did not recall" being in nursery one when the boy collapsed.
Johnson said: "I'm going to suggest that your assertion in your defence statement, that your recollection of events (in relation to baby C's collapse) is vague, is not true."
Letby responds: "I don't agree with that."
Johnson says: "I'm going to suggest that you enjoyed what happened and that is why you were in and out of the family room."
Nurse Letby, through tears, said "No."

 
  • #385
3:35pm

The rewritten note is shown to the court.
The note is for the June 12 day shift. It includes: '...no apnoeas noted and caffeine given as prescribed. Longline inserted by Dr Beech on second attempt...[Child C] unsettled at times soothes with pacifier and enjoyed kangaroo [skin-to-skin] care with parents."
A nursing note by Joanne Williams is shown to the court for Child C on the day shift: '...[Child C] very unsettled and fractious...[Child C] taken off CPAP while out having skin to skin with mummy. Calmed down straight away with mummy...'
Letby agrees this was a "positive picture" for Child C.
Child C was on CPAP breathing support to 10am, then was taken off it for a couple of hours, then was on Optiflow breathing support for the rest of his life.

 
  • #386
It's the jury he's interested in, not us lot. So It wouldn't make sense for him to open with something he'd just read on here, unless he knew it would resonate with the jury.

But who knows, maybe you're right. Maybe at a weekend he does like to chill out with a glass of Bergerac, scrolling through Websleuths lol
Give the man some credit! :D
"Don't teach a father how to father a child"
;)
We are talking about an intelligent, educated and highly skilled PROFESSIONAL!
He is KC after all.

JMO
 
  • #387

Letby denies she 'enjoyed' baby's deterioration​

Nick Johnson KC now moves to the case of Child C, who died shortly before 6am on 14 June 2015. Lucy Letby stands accused of his murder.
In Letby's defence statement she said she recalled having contact with Child C's family after his death but not to the extent described by his mother.
A nurse previously told the court she had to remove Letby from the neonatal parents' room as Child C was dying - and after he had died.
In her statement, Letby said she only had a vague recollection of events around Child C's collapse.
Mr Johnson puts to Letby that this isn't true. "I don't agree with that," she replies.
"I'm going to suggest that you enjoyed what happened, that's why you were in the parents' room," the prosecutor says.
Letby appears to become emotional as she responds: "No."

 
  • #388
But you've known about her interview response for months ...
I needed more details. We have them now. I did think we would have to wait for more info, that’s why I said I thought it strange the police didn’t ask for more deets. Ie “what is it about AE that you don’t know“? It was such a short answer it would appear in retrospect a cagey and defensive response.

everybody else took what she said as she was saying she knew nothing about them, which wasn’t what she said IMO.
 
  • #389
  • #390
She adds: "I don't know how [child C] died." She rules out staffing levels, medical incompetencies, or someone making a mistake.
very significant.

MOO
 
  • #391
  • #392
The rebuttal witnesses would be if the Judge allows the prosecution to reopen their case in the light of the new information Letby has given on the stand verses what was said in prior evidence. The prosecution aren’t expected to mind-read what the defendant might say, and may argue successfully that as her barrister on cross examination of the prosecutions witness did not mention any of these New memories , they can recall her colleagues to find out just how normal her behaviour was for the unit at that time.
it’s the same if Myers has allowed certain things as agreed evidence and now Letby is saying they are not true.
Re-direct isn't a rebuttal witness thing. After the prosecution has finished its cross the defendant's counsel gets to do the re-direct. That is to clarify anything that has been said in the cross. The cross is a time for leading 'yes' and 'no' type answers. The re-direct is for the defendant to say 'yes, I meant it *this* way and not *that* way (or whatever the prosecution has tried to imply).
 
  • #393
I suppose she meant she couldn't speak for others on certain things that she didn't personally witness, but she knew others were using their phones, because she saw them doing it.
Perhaps, but that wasn’t her response though.
 
  • #394
Posted at 15:4615:46

Letby 'migrated' back to baby C's room, prosecutor says​

Dan O'Donoghue
At Manchester Crown Court
Johnson is taking the court back over nursing notes for baby C. The note, made by one of Letby's colleagues, is a summary of the baby boy's health on 13 June 2015.
Johnson confirms with Letby that she came on shift at 19:30pm that night.
She was designated two babies, initialled JE and PE, to care for that evening - these children are not part of the case.
Mr Johnson puts it to Ms Letby that this was "another shift on which (she) migrated either from nursery three or four and back into nursery one."
Letby says: "Yes, in response to (baby C's) care needs."
The prosecutor suggests that Letby was unhappy at being designated children in nursery three to care for.
Letby accepts this. She says: "Yes I had expressed I would have preferred to be in nursery one."

 
  • #395
Nurse admits she was unhappy at being in lower dependency nursery

Court documents show Lucy Letby was looking after a baby in nursery three at the Countess of Chester hospital during the night shift of 13-14 June 2015, while Child C was in intensive care nursery one.

Nick Johnson KC suggests to Letby that this was "another shift" where she "migrated" from a nursery for babies with lower dependencies back into nursery one.

Letby agrees but says it was only "in response to Child C's care needs".

"No, before Child C collapsed," Mr Johnson says.

"I don't have any recollection of that," Letby replies.

The shift leader on duty previously told the court she had to order Letby to look after her designated baby rather than get herself involved in other children.

"Is that true?" Mr Johnson asks. Letby says she doesn't remember the conversation.

"I'm going to suggest you were unhappy with the arrangements she'd made that dictated where you were working, do you agree?" he asks.

Letby concedes she was unhappy but it was down to the decision of a previous shift leader.

 
  • #396
if it was nothi personally significant to her, that’s a detail one might forget. It’s another example of something one wouldn’t lie about.
As others have said, though, she messaged someone to tell them that the dad was on the floor howling. How does anyone not recall that? You might not necessarily relate to a particular baby but it's inconceivable to me that you wouldn't remember it, especially if it was so noteworthy that you messaged someone about it.
 
  • #397
Thanks - this confirms how they knew the card photo was taken in the unit:

"An image of the card and its inside message was recovered by police from Ms Letby's phone and GPS data confirmed that the image was taken on the neonatal unit, the trial heard."
I’m not sure you can paint the picture being taken on the ward as unusual. If you think about it, her taking photos of such things if not unusual the unit was the last place she could. The last opportunity for her to take the photo.
 
  • #398
I don't see how it couldn't be significant to her. Put yourself in that moment. What a dreadful thing to witness, for anyone. In my opinion, if a lie, it's an astonishing misstep.
She's already sat in court listening to those texts being read out, so she knows she wrote them. She's maybe saying she doesn't have a current memory of it. That's not lying.
 
  • #399
My impression from this line of questioning is more to show LL in an unprofessional light ie. not showing due care and attention to her charges and essentially, to drive a truck through her claims of being the highly professional, conscientious nurse she said she was. And also of course to highlight all the contradictions.

Essentially, it's to show her as being both unreliable and untrustworthy.

I don't think it's really to do with anyone else or with what was regarded as general practice within the unit.

JMO
However, the trial has already heard that colleagues, and supervision, for the most part, thought well of her, and considered her a decent nurse. The defence counsel will be able to intimate, in closing argument if not before, that the prosecution is really petty and grasping at straws, and that none of this is proof of the crimes of murder or attempted murder.
 
  • #400
I’m really really starting to Question this individuals honesty.

looking at the evidence I’m finding her response in police interview about the AE or not knowing what it was to be unbelievable.
I can understand not knowing everything about them but to give that short answer with no follow up seems like deflection to me. Pledging ignorance almost like she knew the implications and was being cagey and defensive.
That wasn't what she said and was corrected months later in evidence. She said that she wouldn't especially know what the symptoms might be, not that she didn't know it was dangerous.
 
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