UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #22

[Jazmania]

I don’t think she was lying about the shredder, I don’t think she is necessarily lying about anything else either. That still doesn’t look good for her.

”ll why don’t you remember the dad crying on the floor”. “Because it wasn’t significant“.

there is another potential here, has enough significant things happened in her life since that would mean that that memory if not personally significant would have become so distant and insignificant compared to what has happened since That she genuinely doesn’t remember it?

She comes across to me as lying about everything, even when there is no reason to. It's bizarre.

I think that an image like the one she describes of the father on the floor would be etched on your brain forever. And from the evidence I don't believe her life has been that full since she left the unit. She lost her friends and social life and was very isolated for maybe 4 years, and has been on remand in prison for 3 years. How much can really have happened to her in that time?

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

I’m really not convinced about the prosecution’s strategy so far. So much focus on how she’s texting at work: yes, she’s unprofessional (I think that’s has probably already been accepted as fact by the jury based on previous evidence ), but by making such a big deal out of how she was bored and texting , aren’t you creating the impression that she was too distracted to properly do her job and care for the babies, so mistakes were more likely to be made? Ie giving the jury material to find her guilty of man slaughter not murder ?

 

[Sundial]

“Letby told the court she had since been diagnosed with depression, anxiety and post-traumatic stress disorder and needed medication to help her sleep.”

Lucy Letby trial: nurse ‘devastated’ to hear she was accused of murdering babies

Woman accused of murdering seven babies cries as she tells court she never harmed a child in her care

www.theguardian.com

Letby said her mental health deteriorated and she was prescribed antidepressants, which she still takes.

Nurse sobs as she describes being arrested in pyjamas for 'murder' of 7 babies

Lucy Letby, 33, is on trial accused of murdering seven new born babies and attempting to kill another ten in the neonatal unit at the Countess of Chester Hospital in Cheshire, between June 2015 and June 2016

www.mirror.co.uk

oh please, you think she would lie about a official prescription that’s provable?

if she did no one would believe anything She ever said.

Where did an official prescription get reported though? If you look at my post, I actually edited it, recalling that actually she did say this on the stand in response to her defence.

Now we don’t know she has a prescription or not anymore than we know whether she actually fainted/needle stick etc We aren’t privvy to that information. So my question to you therefore; why can we believe this “provable official prescription” and yet several of the agreed facts by both parties and evidence- you have frequently dismissed throughout a major proportion of the threads?
Today has been laughable at a variation of lies tripping over her own feet- and we are expected to take what she says at face value? Yet the agreed facts, many of them you continually chose not to believe- even when her own defence have agreed to them!

JMO

 

[Marantz4250b]

I feel like out of all the evidence we’ve heard over the last few months today’s cross examination is what has hit home the most IMO. The first handover sheet in that keepsake box seems extremely suspicious. Could this have been going on since 2010? JMO but after today I feel that it could be a possibility, to keep a handover sheet in pristine condition, in a keepsake box with roses on. And then over the following years collect even more, 257 to be exact, it’s sounding more and more like these really were trophies of some kind, and that’s why LL is denying that they were significant and denying that she knew they existed. All MOO

I don't entirely agree here. She clearly has reasons for keeping them and they are clearly of significance to her.

To be honest, even though it was grossly against the rules, I can sort of see why she might keep the very first one she ever got; it was her dream job, the thing she'd wanted since childhood and had devoted her life to. She also knew her success made her parents proud. If you exclude the rule breaking thing then I see it as not abnormal at all to keep something like that.

She definitely has something more going on with these sheets though. The FB searches and suchlike as well. I don't think they were "trophies", as such, at least not of crimes if she's guilty. It might sound bizarre but it feels more like she's documenting her life and feels a strong compulsion to do so. All of this information hoarding feels almost like an actor keeping scrips or video footage for their showreel or a stage actor keeping programs from the productions they've been in, maybe the "star" sign with their name on from their dressing room door?

It all just has a really weird vibe to it but I'm still not convinced it's directly related to the alleged crimes.

All MOO, obvs.

 

[notsure]

She comes across to me as lying about everything, even when there is no reason to. It's bizarre.

I think that an image like the one she describes of the father on the floor would be etched on your brain forever. And from the evidence I don't believe her life has been that full since she left the unit. She lost her friends and social life and was very isolated for maybe 4 years, and has been on remand in prison for 3 years. How much can really have happened to her in that time?

Psychologically, all of the above would be devastating. Who knows how that would affect the memory? Just a thought, imo, obviously.

 

[Dcflag]

I’m really not convinced about the prosecution’s strategy so far. So much focus on how she’s texting at work: yes, she’s unprofessional (I think that’s has probably already been accepted as fact by the jury based on previous evidence ), but by making such a big deal out of how she was bored and texting , aren’t you creating the impression that she was too distracted to properly do her job and care for the babies, so mistakes were more likely to be made? Ie giving the jury material to find her guilty of man slaughter not murder ?

It’s showing she has little care for the human life entrusted to her, because she’s not even giving the care her full attention. That the babies were uninteresting if they were just on standard cares.

 

[notsure]

It’s showing she has little care for the human life entrusted to her, because she’s not even giving the care her full attention. That the babies were uninteresting if they were just on standard cares.

And if other nurses were also texting at work?

 

[JosieJo]

To be honest I actually got this feeling with nurse Taylor and her being irritated by her just listening to the evidence prior to the prosecution cross examining her. But I totally agree with the other points you mention too.

She seems to get rather snarky with anyone who doesn’t listen or view her points in quite the same way. Very arrogant imo

Yes I agree ... I also wonder if certain nurses didn't entertain her "pity party" personality.
I also wonder if the fact she had just completed the ICU course gave her illusions of superiority or unrealistic expectations of being treated differently

 

[esther43]

What do you mean by this?
[/QUOTE
That letby seemed to fear disappointing them.
That Johnson at some point is likely to reference this in cross examination. I believe it's a weak spot for the defendant.

Lucy Letby trial: Murder-accused nurse wrote 'I am evil', trial told

Post-it notes were found at Lucy Letby's home including one reading "I am evil", her trial hears.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[JosieJo]

And if other nurses were also texting at work?

I definitely think nurses text at work ...but not usually to the extent she did during shifts

 

[marynnu]

Would you say it’s a bit above her station?
or would you say it was safe for this newly qualified nurse to attend to an itu baby by herself? If I was a lead nurse I would supervise the cares.

Nurse Ellis was well supervised as I understand it. The shift lead was obviously happy for her to do most of the care. This is a normal thing to do if you have enough experienced staff to offer support, in order for junior nurses to develop skills & confidence. Although tiny & classed as ITU, this was a baby on CPAP then Optiflow, so not ventilated.

 

[Sundial]

Yes I agree ... I also wonder if certain nurses didn't entertain her "pity party" personality.
I also wonder if the fact she had just completed the ICU course gave her illusions of superiority or unrealistic expectations of being treated differently

See this makes me think of dr choc now.. listening to the last 40 mins or so from today in those text conversations and her being frustrated, then the “pity party” (which does seem to sum this up quite well tbh), dr choc seemed to very much be giving her just that.
Imo

 

[katydid23]

However, the trial has already heard that colleagues, and supervision, for the most part, thought well of her, and considered her a decent nurse. The defence counsel will be able to intimate, in closing argument if not before, that the prosecution is really petty and grasping at straws, and that none of this is proof of the crimes of murder or attempted murder.

Colleagues and supervisors did, at one time, think highly of her. But as more and more unexplained collapses began to happen in her presence, a contingent of doctors began to demand she be taken off the floor.

I don't think Meyers will be able to paint the prosecution as petty or desperate. I think the prosecution has already shown the defendant to be petty and sometimes desperate while working on the unit. JMO

I don't believe that Johnson is coming off as petty. He seems to be delving into some very important issues and asking some very relevant questions. JMO

 

[Dcflag]

And if other nurses were also texting at work?

I suspect, at least from today, there’s going to be an incident where he will allege she was messaging during a resus she was a part of or in a timeframe she was doing something important (like a feed).

I don’t think the issue is the texting itself but if they can prove or at least remove reasonable doubt that she was messaging during some important events it won’t go in her favour. He made a very big thing about feeding needing two hands and whether she messaged during a resus.

She has already said under oath she didn’t message during clinical practice. If he can show otherwise.. it shows a lack of interest and care.

Messaging while doing notes or on the ward clearly isn’t an issue (although I have to say, I work in a vets and god help anyone with a mobile phone out anywhere but the staff only areas )

 

[katydid23]

See this makes me think of dr choc now.. listening to the last 40 mins or so from today in those text conversations and her being frustrated, then the “pity party” (which does seem to sum this up quite well tbh), dr choc seemed to very much be giving her just that.
Imo

Those text conversations about her not feeling 'heard' about wanting to be in room one were very powerful considering they ended with her having a tantrum just before Baby C collapsed in there, 6 minutes later. It wasn't lost on the jury, IMO. i

 

[ColourPurple]

I don't entirely agree here. She clearly has reasons for keeping them and they are clearly of significance to her.

...She definitely has something more going on with these sheets though. The FB searches and suchlike as well. I don't think they were "trophies", as such, at least not of crimes if she's guilty. It might sound bizarre but it feels more like she's documenting her life and feels a strong compulsion to do so. All of this information hoarding feels almost like an actor keeping scrips or video footage for their showreel or a stage actor keeping programs from the productions they've been in, may be the "star" sign with their name on from their dressing room door?

It all just has a really weird vibe to it but I'm still not convinced it's directly related to the alleged crimes.

All MOO, obvs.

RSBM

If guilty, it does feel like, she may have seen herself as the star of her own medical docu-drama, picking the most dramatic, heartbreaking storylines. So that fits with that IMO

The only things she seems to have a problem with getting rid of are all baby related. From handover notes to notes about her being taken away from looking after them/accused of harming them. We'll never know for sure, but it seems highly unlikely, if guilty, that this isn't all related to her alleged crimes. It makes sense that they would be but if she is guilty, she's never going to admit that they are. So it's up to the jury to decide how relevant they think it all is.

JMO

 

[Sundial]

And if other nurses were also texting at work?

See I found this interesting, because she said; if people were being honest they did the same (or similar words to this- not an exact quote). But she isn’t claiming to have actually witnessed this, so is it her assumption that everyone is doing it if they are honest about it?

I actually had a conversation with a colleague a few years ago very similar to this who claimed; everyone does it. It’s actually offensive to make a sweeping statement presuming that everyone is; because they actually aren’t.

And then we have on one hand she says she can’t speak for others, dismisses their witness testimonies, implies people are liars and conspiring against her (the doctors, nursing colleagues- even the parents if we think about what she’s actually implying)
THEN a complete U-turn and agrees to colleagues versions and everyone is using their phone if they are being completely honest- thought she said she can’t speak for others or whatever it was?

I can’t help but scratch my head with this one tbh.
All imo etc

 

[Sundial]

Those text conversations about her not feeling 'heard' about wanting to be in room one were very powerful considering they ended with her having a tantrum just before Baby C collapsed in there, 6 minutes later. It wasn't lost on the jury, IMO. i

I’m sure there was another similar encounter just minutes after a discussion further on too, baby N? I can’t remember which one but it appeared to be just minutes after a text.

 

[Diddly1]

I’ve just caught up with today’s events and WOW! The Prosecution is doing a fabulous job of showing how she is the only person who tells the truth MOO

 

[notsure]

I definitely think nurses text at work ...but not usually to the extent she did during shifts

You're right - we can only guess.