Long enough to grow a baby
UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #23
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GoodDayToYouSir
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Jumping around the babies a bit, but 2 questions I have :
- baby c: didn’t he have an autopsy? As Dr Evans says that the alleged AE caused his diaphragm to splint, wouldn’t a splinted diaphragm have shown up on the autopsy?
- baby K: LL was charged originally with the murder of Baby K, but then found not guilty just before trial started because the prosecution offered no evidence. But she is now on trial for attempted murder of Baby K. I don’t think we have heard from either the prosecution or the defence what Baby K actually died of eventually when she was moved to another hospital. I am completely perplexed as to how neither the prosecution or defence has put this into evidence: surely there is a cause of death on the death certificate? And the cause of death is surely relevant to the medical evidence surrounding Baby K and the attempted murder charges. If the defence is saying that the collapses were due to (eg) extreme prematurity, then, if the death certificate records the cause of death as being to do with prematurity, then surely that is relevant?
- baby c: didn’t he have an autopsy? As Dr Evans says that the alleged AE caused his diaphragm to splint, wouldn’t a splinted diaphragm have shown up on the autopsy?
- baby K: LL was charged originally with the murder of Baby K, but then found not guilty just before trial started because the prosecution offered no evidence. But she is now on trial for attempted murder of Baby K. I don’t think we have heard from either the prosecution or the defence what Baby K actually died of eventually when she was moved to another hospital. I am completely perplexed as to how neither the prosecution or defence has put this into evidence: surely there is a cause of death on the death certificate? And the cause of death is surely relevant to the medical evidence surrounding Baby K and the attempted murder charges. If the defence is saying that the collapses were due to (eg) extreme prematurity, then, if the death certificate records the cause of death as being to do with prematurity, then surely that is relevant?
How disgusting if true!
Yuck!
How is it even possible that such things could happen in hospital?
Was the management fit for purpose in this hospital at all??
JMO
11:29am
Letby is asked if she recalls telling police in the case of Child N that NG Tubes can cause bleeding. Letby says it does cause blood, but not in the mouth.
Mr Johnson says Letby has said that previously it can cause oral bleeding. Letby: "Ok."
She denies saying that happened in this case.
She says "medically speaking", "any baby" could have a bleed like the sort seen by Child E.
A text message from Letby to Jennifer Jones-Key is shown: "...He had massive haemhorrhage could have happened to any baby x"
Letby says "at the time" it was thought Child E could have NEC, and "any baby could have had the condition [Child E] had."
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 24 - cross-examination continues
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…www.chesterstandard.co.uk
JMO of course, but I would dispute the idea that a massive gastric bleed 'could happen to any baby'. It seems rather dismissive of a very alarming and strange thing to happen.
Yeh this sums up quite well the impression I’m getting from her tbh. It’s quite difficult to interpret it any other way. She gave in evidence when answering her defence questions what those notes referred to; but now, when being asked about each case thus far by the prosecution, she couldn’t be further from those reasons shes already given on the stand if she tried.
For me, a lot of what we’ve heard from her since the prosecution has started makes very little logic. I was quite surprised even by the nappy thing with baby E. I wonder if Myers was as surprised, nothing has been mentioned on that before as far as I’m aware
JMO if guilty etc
Now12:44
Letby accused of 'being obsessed' with Child E's mother
Letby accepts Child E's mother made a phone call at 9.11pm, at which time she told her husband she had seen bleeding around her son's mouth.
The prosecution claims this as proof Child E started bleeding much earlier than the nurse says. Letby has previously told the court she believed Child E's mother must have visited the unit much later than she says. The prosecution says the call time disputes this.
"She told her husband Child E was bleeding from the mouth. You don't accept that?" Nick Johnson, prosecution barrister, asks.
"No," Letby replies.
The prosecution claims Child E's mother was told by Letby there was nothing to worry about and to leave the neonatal unit.
Mr Johnson: "You killed Child E, didn't you?"
Letby: "No."
Mr Johnson: "You injected him with air."
Letby: "No."
Mr Johnson: "Just as you had done with other babies before."
Letby: "No."
Mr Johnson: "Why in the aftermath were you so obsessed with Child E's mother?"
Letby: "I don't believe I was obsessed with Child E's mother."
She is then asked about why she searched for her repeatedly on Facebook.
"I often thought about [children E and F]," Letby says.
She searched for their mother nine times, and their father once. Letby said she did this to see how Child F was - he was the surviving twin.
But one of the searches took place after the death of Child E and while his twin brother was still in the neonatal unit.
Mr Johnson says she was "looking for a reaction".
Searches include one that took place at 11.26pm on Christmas Day.
"Didn't you have better things to do?" the prosecution asks.
She says she often thought of them and believed she had a good relationship with their mother.
https://news.sky.com/story/lucy-let...ws-blog-12868375?postid=5956663#liveblog-body
Lucy Letby trial: Facebook searches of nurse accused of murdering babies read out in court
Lucy Letby, a former neonatal nurse, has been back in court for another day of cross-examination by the prosecution on Friday. She is accused of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of 10 others, and denies all the charges.news.sky.com
I'm not sure how 10 searches can possibly be described in any other way than 'obsessed'. JMO
Naturally LL is not aware what questions of each baby will be put to her.
I wonder how many blank stares, pauses, reddening of her face etc she makes before she answers anything that (if guilty) she dithers about.
Anything like that of course the Jury alone will pick up on that.
I wonder how many blank stares, pauses, reddening of her face etc she makes before she answers anything that (if guilty) she dithers about.
Anything like that of course the Jury alone will pick up on that.
Noticed this too; it made me think of some of the other parents; close to them, hugged them and we cried together etc (or words along those lines). Her text messages relayed these to conversations to her colleagues. Another example, the mother of the triplets I believe who said LL was extremely upset, almost as much as them.
Not quite the same but it actually reminds me of the baby where she claimed you never forget who you care for etc; yet where she wasn’t directly involved and the baby had only been on the unit a short while.
Her comments on this topic alone seem rather peculiar and unhealthily attached in a way.
JMO
EBM
2:09pm
The trial is now resuming following its lunch break.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
The trial is now resuming following its lunch break.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 24 - cross-examination continues
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
@JudithMoritz
·
1m
Court has resumed. Nick Johnson KC is continuing to question Lucy Letby about the first occasion (of three) when she's accused of attempting to murder baby G. This is when the baby projectile vomited so forcefully, the vomit was found outside the cot, on a chair.
·
1m
Court has resumed. Nick Johnson KC is continuing to question Lucy Letby about the first occasion (of three) when she's accused of attempting to murder baby G. This is when the baby projectile vomited so forcefully, the vomit was found outside the cot, on a chair.
2:17pm
Nicholas Johnson KC continues to cross-examine Lucy Letby in the case of Child G.
Letby says it was a "possibility" Child G was overfed by a nursing colleague, but adds: "I don't believe that happened."
Mr Johnson says to overfeed Child G twice as much would have taken twice as long.
Letby says 45mls of milk feed would take around 15-20 minutes.
Letby refers to medical experts Dr Evans and Dr Bohin that overfeeding was a possibility.
Mr Johnson describes what Letby had seen, including that Child G's abdomen was "firm and red", with the sight of that and vomit on the floor leaving her "shocked".
"That was a clear recollection you had last week, giving evidence?"
Letby says that happened at approximately 2.15am.
Her nursing note is shown to the court: '[Child G] had large projectile milky vomit at 0215. Continued to vomit++. 45mls milk obtained from NG tube with air++. Abdomen noted to be distended and discoloured. Colour improved few minutes after aspirating tube, remained distended but soft...to go nil by mouth with IV fluids...'
Letby says she disagrees with the evidence of Dr Sandie Bohin, saying a pH reading of 4 can be obtained from milk aspirated from the stomach.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
Nicholas Johnson KC continues to cross-examine Lucy Letby in the case of Child G.
Letby says it was a "possibility" Child G was overfed by a nursing colleague, but adds: "I don't believe that happened."
Mr Johnson says to overfeed Child G twice as much would have taken twice as long.
Letby says 45mls of milk feed would take around 15-20 minutes.
Letby refers to medical experts Dr Evans and Dr Bohin that overfeeding was a possibility.
Mr Johnson describes what Letby had seen, including that Child G's abdomen was "firm and red", with the sight of that and vomit on the floor leaving her "shocked".
"That was a clear recollection you had last week, giving evidence?"
Letby says that happened at approximately 2.15am.
Her nursing note is shown to the court: '[Child G] had large projectile milky vomit at 0215. Continued to vomit++. 45mls milk obtained from NG tube with air++. Abdomen noted to be distended and discoloured. Colour improved few minutes after aspirating tube, remained distended but soft...to go nil by mouth with IV fluids...'
Letby says she disagrees with the evidence of Dr Sandie Bohin, saying a pH reading of 4 can be obtained from milk aspirated from the stomach.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 24 - cross-examination continues
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
GoodDayToYouSir
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The NHS has been grossly underfunded for many years as well as being overstretched as people live longer and therefore are more likely to need care.
It shouldn’t happen but they have to make decisions as to where their money goes , which includes which “fires” they send their maintenance/repair teams to put out first . I imagine the sewage issue got fixed eventually but apparently not immediately.
I
It won't have been 'raw sewage', of that I am certain.
It won't have been 'raw sewage', of that I am certain.
@MrDanDonoghue
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11m
H
We're back after lunch. Mr Johnson is focusing on Child G's projectile vomit at about 02:00 on 7 September. Ms Letby said before the break that the the vomit "potentially" could have been caused by a nursing colleague having mis-measured a feed.
@MrDanDonoghue
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13m
"I can't say for definite that didn't happen. I'm not saying she did do that, but it is a possibility", Ms Letby said.
@MrDanDonoghue
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11m
Mr Johnson is asking Ms Letby about her recollection of that night shift. She says Child G projectile vomited around 02:15, she says she never seen that on a neonatal unit before.
I’ll continue Dan’s tweets if Katy has gone to sleep unless someone else wants to do them.
·
11m
H
We're back after lunch. Mr Johnson is focusing on Child G's projectile vomit at about 02:00 on 7 September. Ms Letby said before the break that the the vomit "potentially" could have been caused by a nursing colleague having mis-measured a feed.
@MrDanDonoghue
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13m
"I can't say for definite that didn't happen. I'm not saying she did do that, but it is a possibility", Ms Letby said.
@MrDanDonoghue
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11m
Mr Johnson is asking Ms Letby about her recollection of that night shift. She says Child G projectile vomited around 02:15, she says she never seen that on a neonatal unit before.
I’ll continue Dan’s tweets if Katy has gone to sleep unless someone else wants to do them.
@MrDanDonoghue
·
2m
Mr Johnson says 'I'm going to suggest to you that you deliberately misstated the time at which (Child G) had this event, this vomit, happened much closer to 2.30'. 'No I don’t agree', Ms Letby said
@MrDanDonoghue
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2m
Mr Johnson says this is 'one of the occasions' Ms Letby is 'misrepresenting events in nursing notes' - she rejects this
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2m
Mr Johnson says 'I'm going to suggest to you that you deliberately misstated the time at which (Child G) had this event, this vomit, happened much closer to 2.30'. 'No I don’t agree', Ms Letby said
@MrDanDonoghue
·
2m
Mr Johnson says this is 'one of the occasions' Ms Letby is 'misrepresenting events in nursing notes' - she rejects this
2:27pm
A photo of Child G's cot, with circles marking where the vomit fell outside of the cot, is shown to the court.
Letby is asked to look at her police interview for Child G.
Letby said it was in her cot.
NJ: "This was an extraordinary vomit, the likes of which you had not seen in your career."
LL: "I have, but not in neonates."
Letby says it's an "oversight" she had not mentioned the extent of the vomit in police interview.
Letby says Child G was "still vomiting" when she went in to see Child G with Ailsa Simpson.
NJ: "You were not there with her, were you?"
LL: "Yes I was."
Letby is asked to look at her police interview. She says at the time of the vomit she did not remember where she was, then went into the room where Child G was.
Letby is asked why there is no mention of Ailsa Simpson in the interview. Letby says she was describing her own response.
The neonatal schedule is shown to the court for Child G.
Mr Johnson says Letby deliberately misstated the time at which Child G had her vomit [at 2.15am], and says it was different. Letby disagrees.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
A photo of Child G's cot, with circles marking where the vomit fell outside of the cot, is shown to the court.
Letby is asked to look at her police interview for Child G.
Letby said it was in her cot.
NJ: "This was an extraordinary vomit, the likes of which you had not seen in your career."
LL: "I have, but not in neonates."
Letby says it's an "oversight" she had not mentioned the extent of the vomit in police interview.
Letby says Child G was "still vomiting" when she went in to see Child G with Ailsa Simpson.
NJ: "You were not there with her, were you?"
LL: "Yes I was."
Letby is asked to look at her police interview. She says at the time of the vomit she did not remember where she was, then went into the room where Child G was.
Letby is asked why there is no mention of Ailsa Simpson in the interview. Letby says she was describing her own response.
The neonatal schedule is shown to the court for Child G.
Mr Johnson says Letby deliberately misstated the time at which Child G had her vomit [at 2.15am], and says it was different. Letby disagrees.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 24 - cross-examination continues
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…
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