UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #23

[Dotta]

Her best friend is under the wheels of the bus it’s just so desperate

With friends like these
Who needs enemies?

 

[Sundial]

Thank you to all for the updates, very interesting discussions from today.

 

[Diddly1]

She has kept digging and digging herself further into her spidery web of deception and the Prosecution keeps catching her in her own spiders web. Today has been a difficult day for LL, I do wonder if this is what the real LL is like. Never ever excepting any blame for anything. These are all just my thoughts and opinions from listening to today’s trial. It’s genuinely tragic. MOO

 

[Tortoise]

“I just think collectively they could have acted sooner to respond to the blood issue.”

Mr Johnson said: “Their reaction would be dependent on when you told them there was a bleed?”

“Yes,” said Letby.

Mr Johnson said: “The prosecution case is that (Child E’s mother) is telling the truth and (Child E) was bleeding at 9pm.


“But you didn’t tell anyone about that until at least an hour later?”

Letby said: “No I disagree with that.

[...]

Mr Johnson went on: “I am suggesting to you that when (Child E’s mother) came down at 9pm you had inflicted an injury on (Child E) to cause bleeding?”

Letby said: “No, I don’t accept that. It didn’t happen.”

[...]

Accused Lucy Letby tells court doctors could have acted sooner to assist baby

Lucy Letby denies the murders of seven babies and the attempted babies of 10 others

www.standard.co.uk

 

[Blondiexoxo]

@JudithMoritz

·
1m

(2/2) NJKC: "Were people talking about you being associated with the collapses of lots of children at different times?" LL: "Not at all" NJKC: "Was that the negative comments you were talking about?" LL: "No" NJKC: "Were people starting to notice (the association)?" LL: "No"

This is a lie IMO. The text messsges directly contradict her assertion that people weren’t starting to notice the association between LL and each baby who collapsed/died.

She has colleagues telling her about her ‘run of bad luck’ and how she ‘needs a break from it being on her shift’ etc… I recall seeing quite a few messages with words to that effect even before baby E, F & G. I believe some of ‘the gang of 4’ were noticing the link also but LL was unaware of their suspicions.

Why lie about people noticing that it was always happening on her shift when we’ve already seen texts to show that they certainly were noticing all the ‘unfortunate coincidences’ linked to LL, as they pampered her with a poor Lucy approach and talked about her terrible luck?

MOO

 

[Tortoise]

Later in today's cross-examination, Letby - originally from Hereford - denied feeling 'a cut above' some of the other nurses on the unit.

However, she agreed with Mr Johnson that she was 'always prepared to call out other people's mistakes' and 'not afraid to confront the medical staff if you thought they'd got it wrong'.

She told him: 'I was very confident in my clinical competencies.'

[...]

Lucy Letby 'cooked' medical notes to shift blame murder trial hears

Lucy Letby, 33, allegedly faked the time a baby girl collapsed and deliberately altered the child's temperature on her observation chart before she stopped breathing.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Lincoln34]

Please don't be insulted, as I'm probably going to say stuff you already know just for completeness!

NG tubes are obviously inserted into a nostril and go down the oesophagus into the stomach. You can get a rough idea how many cms to insert it by measuring the distance ear-nostril-tip of sternum.

NG aspirates are done for 3 reasons. One is to ensure the baby is digesting the feeds. You don't want to see bile for example, which can indicate the gut isn't working properly.
The second is to aspirate excess air due to CPAP.
The third is to be sure the tip is actually in the stomach, as if it isn't in far enough, the baby can choke when fed. This is done by measuring the pH. Gastric aspirate is acidic.

Thank you that was really informative and useful!

 

[Blondiexoxo]

Anyone else feel like NJ may have been given a warning about confronting LL? I think he’s been much more gentle with her today, even though he has accused her a few times of harming the babies, when she’s answered ‘no’ he’s not dug any deeper and has gone on to the next point. I think the way he was cross examining before today was extremely effective at putting pressure on her, today feels very different to previously, like he’s been given a dressing down about his approach. Also we’ve not heard his now infamous ‘we’ll come back to that’ today…

Unless he is now leaving it up to the jury to fill in the gaps?

After LL’s need for a break and suddenly not returning on Friday, it makes me wonder if she had a little hissy fit and BM ended up insinuating she was upset over NJ’s method of questioning, maybe even suggested it was ‘triggering her PTSD’. Maybe a possibility…

MOO

 

[Sundial]

Later in today's cross-examination, Letby - originally from Hereford - denied feeling 'a cut above' some of the other nurses on the unit.

However, she agreed with Mr Johnson that she was 'always prepared to call out other people's mistakes' and 'not afraid to confront the medical staff if you thought they'd got it wrong'.

She told him: 'I was very confident in my clinical competencies.'

[...]

Lucy Letby 'cooked' medical notes to shift blame murder trial hears

Lucy Letby, 33, allegedly faked the time a baby girl collapsed and deliberately altered the child's temperature on her observation chart before she stopped breathing.

www.dailymail.co.uk

So this therefore contradicts what her note was actually about then. It couldn’t have been her competence or missing things etc as she previously claimed when she took the stand. She’s now saying something very different.
JMO

 

[Sundial]

Anyone else feel like NJ may have been given a warning about confronting LL? I think he’s been much more gentle with her today, even though he has accused her a few times of harming the babies, when she’s answered ‘no’ he’s not dug any deeper and has gone on to the next point. I think the way he was cross examining before today was extremely effective at putting pressure on her, today feels very different to previously, like he’s been given a dressing down about his approach. Also we’ve not heard his now infamous ‘we’ll come back to that’ today…

Unless he is now leaving it up to the jury to fill in the gaps?

After LL’s need for a break and suddenly not returning on Friday, it makes me wonder if she had a little hissy fit and BM ended up insinuating she was upset over NJ’s method of questioning, maybe even suggested it was ‘triggering her PTSD’. Maybe a possibility…

MOO

Agreed, last week the reporting mentioned he was “on his feet”, stood next to her etc and the artists impression of that.. was he deemed to be intimidating her or did she express that? Very different vibe to his cross today. Good, important questions no less, but the approach seemed slightly different to before.
JMO

 

[Blondiexoxo]

Agreed, last week the reporting mentioned he was “on his feet”, stood next to her etc and the artists impression of that.. was he deemed to be intimidating her or did she express that? Very different vibe to his cross today. Good, important questions no less, but the approach seemed slightly different to before.
JMO

I suppose he could think it’s obvious that she’s trying to make excuses for her lies, the cross examination would last til September if he pointed out every single inconsistency. But I think something definitely happened friday IMO there’s been a shift, instead of meek and mild Lucy, she seems self assertive and almost cocky IMO

 

[Tortoise]

I can't say I've noticed a change in his cross-examination technique, but I might suggest that if he is toning it down it could be tactical, to show the jury how she operates in different situations - withdraws completely and cries sometimes when she isn't succeeding in manipulating, and stands up well when she feels she is in charge. I think she had her armour on today! JMO

 

[Tortoise]

Agreed, last week the reporting mentioned he was “on his feet”, stood next to her etc and the artists impression of that.. was he deemed to be intimidating her or did she express that? Very different vibe to his cross today. Good, important questions no less, but the approach seemed slightly different to before.
JMO

I think it's just the court artist trying to fit everything in on one sketch. I don't think he's standing over her, he would be standing in his normal place behind his bench.

 

[Tortoise]

So this therefore contradicts what her note was actually about then. It couldn’t have been her competence or missing things etc as she previously claimed when she took the stand. She’s now saying something very different.
JMO

Yes, getting all her answers in, ready to confront her with when he cross-examines her on her notes!

JMO

 

[Sundial]

I think it's just the court artist trying to fit everything in on one sketch. I don't think he's standing over her, he would be standing in his normal place behind his bench.

Good point, perhaps I’ve misinterpreted the reporting. At one point I thought it read as though he was stood next to/close to her.

 

[Tortoise]

Good point, perhaps I’ve misinterpreted the reporting. At one point I thought it read as though he was stood next to/close to her.

I've never seen it before, for a barrister to move from their bench, in England. I think it would be deemed intimidating to get close to the witness. If they need to pass anything to the witness to read a clerk takes it to them

 

[Dotta]

Anyone else feel like NJ may have been given a warning about confronting LL? I think he’s been much more gentle with her today, even though he has accused her a few times of harming the babies, when she’s answered ‘no’ he’s not dug any deeper and has gone on to the next point. I think the way he was cross examining before today was extremely effective at putting pressure on her, today feels very different to previously, like he’s been given a dressing down about his approach. Also we’ve not heard his now infamous ‘we’ll come back to that’ today…

Unless he is now leaving it up to the jury to fill in the gaps?

After LL’s need for a break and suddenly not returning on Friday, it makes me wonder if she had a little hissy fit and BM ended up insinuating she was upset over NJ’s method of questioning, maybe even suggested it was ‘triggering her PTSD’. Maybe a possibility…

MOO

Anything to let her continue!

 

[Cluedoneit]

She’s had 4 days to read her notes and get her story straight, innocent or guilty, and this is the best she’s come up with?
I think his cross exam was better today, as no one can accuse him of bullying her, which means her excuse for sidestepping the more difficult questions has gone. She can hardly ask for an extended break like Friday with today’s attitude.

 

[crystalline]

Hmmm....'calm before the storm' that's how I put the questioning today. Moving the chess pieces into position.

 

[Anxala]

Anyone else feel like NJ may have been given a warning about confronting LL? I think he’s been much more gentle with her today, even though he has accused her a few times of harming the babies, when she’s answered ‘no’ he’s not dug any deeper and has gone on to the next point. I think the way he was cross examining before today was extremely effective at putting pressure on her, today feels very different to previously, like he’s been given a dressing down about his approach. Also we’ve not heard his now infamous ‘we’ll come back to that’ today…

Unless he is now leaving it up to the jury to fill in the gaps?

After LL’s need for a break and suddenly not returning on Friday, it makes me wonder if she had a little hissy fit and BM ended up insinuating she was upset over NJ’s method of questioning, maybe even suggested it was ‘triggering her PTSD’. Maybe a possibility…

MOO

If he did receive a warning, then good. He came across imo as unnecessarily intimidating, baiting almost, too aware of himself, too playing to an audience last week, to the degree that I actually felt really uncomfortable reading his engagements with her. She's under pressure by virtue of being on the stand, no need to add to it. Counter-productive and not a good look for a professional barrister. JMO.

His more measured and nuanced approach this week reads much better and is clearly achieving far more for the prosecution's case than his big showman tactics of last week did.

And if it's as a result of being told to rein it in, stop showboating, this is not about you, all the better.

And the jury will be perfectly capable of judging LL's responses all on their own.