UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #23

[Diddly1]

LL will be back in her cell fashioning Voodoo dolls out of toothpaste for the ‘gang of four’ the Prosecution, and all the people she perceives have wronged her, and as she isn’t allowed access to sharp objects I imagine her saving up and using her toe nails to inflict injuries (imagined by her) against them all. Obviously these are just my silly musing MOO

 

[Dotta]

She’s had 4 days to read her notes and get her story straight, innocent or guilty, and this is the best she’s come up with?
I think his cross exam was better today, as no one can accuse him of bullying her, which means her excuse for sidestepping the more difficult questions has gone. She can hardly ask for an extended break like Friday with today’s attitude.

Good!
Nobody wants her to have a nervous breakdown in the stand.
Let her talk and spin her stories.
I guess the Jury are listening transfixed haha

JMO

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

5m ago14:26

Silence as Letby does not reply to prosecution question​

Nick Johnson, the prosecution barrister, is continuing to question Letby's claims her colleague (who cannot be named for legal reasons) overfed Child G.
"To have fed Child G twice as much presumably would have taken twice as long?" Mr Johnson asks.
"Yes," Letby replies.
Letby says the experts presented evidence of overfeeding.
"How would they know? Which experts?" Mr Johnson asks.
Letby takes a sip of her water and does not reply to this questio, staring straight ahead in silence.
Mr Johnson then asks about the scene when Letby and her colleagues discovered Child G had vomited onto the floor.

Lucy Letby trial: Facebook searches of nurse accused of murdering babies read out in court

Lucy Letby, a former neonatal nurse, has been back in court for another day of cross-examination by the prosecution on Friday. She is accused of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of 10 others, and denies all the charges.

news.sky.com

What? I don’t understand .

Anyone else feel like NJ may have been given a warning about confronting LL? I think he’s been much more gentle with her today, even though he has accused her a few times of harming the babies, when she’s answered ‘no’ he’s not dug any deeper and has gone on to the next point. I think the way he was cross examining before today was extremely effective at putting pressure on her, today feels very different to previously, like he’s been given a dressing down about his approach. Also we’ve not heard his now infamous ‘we’ll come back to that’ today…

Unless he is now leaving it up to the jury to fill in the gaps?

After LL’s need for a break and suddenly not returning on Friday, it makes me wonder if she had a little hissy fit and BM ended up insinuating she was upset over NJ’s method of questioning, maybe even suggested it was ‘triggering her PTSD’. Maybe a possibility…

MOO

If he goes too hard for her, the risk is the jury starts to feel sorry for her because they think she is being bullied , and that starts to eclipse the consideration of whether she’s guilty or not.

That’s clearly not what NJ wants to happen, so it’s in his interests to simmer down a bit .

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

Good point, perhaps I’ve misinterpreted the reporting. At one point I thought it read as though he was stood next to/close to her.

Yes, barristers don’t tend to move from their benches when speaking. Very different to the US where the attorneys seems to bounce all over the court room, including getting right up in the jury’s face so they can eyeball them. I suppose they have to get their daily steps in somehow ..

 

[Lincoln34]

I suppose he could think it’s obvious that she’s trying to make excuses for her lies, the cross examination would last til September if he pointed out every single inconsistency. But I think something definitely happened friday IMO there’s been a shift, instead of meek and mild Lucy, she seems self assertive and almost cocky IMO

Maybe that’s because he has not yet produced a smoking gun as it were re falsifications of records . Suggestions made by him that jury can draw conclusions from for sure, but no GOTCHER moment IMO

 

[marynnu]

LL will be back in her cell fashioning Voodoo dolls out of toothpaste for the ‘gang of four’ the Prosecution, and all the people she perceives have wronged her, and as she isn’t allowed access to sharp objects I imagine her saving up and using her toe nails to inflict injuries (imagined by her) against them all. Obviously these are just my silly musing MOO

After the Poogate scandal it might not be toothpaste. And now I apologise.

 

[Dotta]

Dbm

 

[notsure]

She has kept digging and digging herself further into her spidery web of deception and the Prosecution keeps catching her in her own spiders web. Today has been a difficult day for LL, I do wonder if this is what the real LL is like. Never ever excepting any blame for anything. These are all just my thoughts and opinions from listening to today’s trial. It’s genuinely tragic. MOO

I think she is "excepting" blame, though - denying everything.

 

[katydid23]

Maybe that’s because he has not yet produced a smoking gun as it were re falsifications of records . Suggestions made by him that jury can draw conclusions from for sure, but no GOTCHER moment IMO

Oh, I think there were a few smoldering guns. Her records with Baby E's mum were seemingly false---nothing indicates that mum and dad were lying about the feed time being 9 pm---yet LL changed things like writing 'feed omitted' ---which was false. And she tried to negate her earlier testimony about mum bringing milk to the room.

And the explanation for the vomit,[ baby G?] --- which she described as being on the baby's clothing, instead of being on the next cot over---another lie

And she definitely got caught out with the timing of the vomiting incident when she tried to make it earlier so the other nurse would be in the room instead of her...but it didn't fit with the other nurses records, or the time that the dr was called for the collapse

I think there were a few gotcha moments in her records/observations

 

[Tortoise]

Thinking more on it, I do believe it's entirely feasible that the prosecutor could be adjusting his approach for demonstrative reasons. These alleged murders and attempted murders were (allegedly) committed by someone who would prey on the weakest, most vulnerable and defenseless of all of society, and if the jury sees her as timid and fearful as she was last week it might not gel with them that she was capable of it. I believe he could be trying to show the many sides of her, the one that sees an opportunity, a crack, and jumps in to take advantage. It feels like a bit of a power play to me, only his is strategic, hers is her nature.

But I don't feel as if he is taking his foot of the pedal, he is covering all the points but in a way in which she seems to be finding her mettle, and perhaps it's even coming across that she is enjoying looking like someone who would want to defeat and overpower the 'weak' prosecutor.

JMO

 

[Dotta]

Thinking more on it, I do believe it's entirely feasible that the prosecutor could be adjusting his approach for demonstrative reasons. These alleged murders and attempted murders were (allegedly) committed by someone who would prey on the weakest, most vulnerable and defenseless of all of society, and if the jury sees her as timid and fearful as she was last week it might not gel with them that she was capable of it. I believe he could be trying to show the many sides of her, the one that sees an opportunity, a crack, and jumps in to take advantage. It feels like a bit of a power play to me, only his is strategic, hers is her nature.

But I don't feel as if he is taking his foot of the pedal, he is covering all the points but in a way in which she seems to be finding her mettle, and perhaps it's even coming across that she is enjoying looking like someone who would want to defeat and overpower the 'weak' prosecutor.

JMO

He is playing her like a virtuoso.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

Thinking more on it, I do believe it's entirely feasible that the prosecutor could be adjusting his approach for demonstrative reasons. These alleged murders and attempted murders were (allegedly) committed by someone who would prey on the weakest, most vulnerable and defenseless of all of society, and if the jury sees her as timid and fearful as she was last week it might not gel with them that she was capable of it. I believe he could be trying to show the many sides of her, the one that sees an opportunity, a crack, and jumps in to take advantage. It feels like a bit of a power play to me, only his is strategic, hers is her nature.

But I don't feel as if he is taking his foot of the pedal, he is covering all the points but in a way in which she seems to be finding her mettle, and perhaps it's even coming across that she is enjoying looking like someone who would want to defeat and overpower the 'weak' prosecutor.

JMO

I agree. And he doesn't want the jury to feel sorry for her. If he is too rough with her, she can cower and act like 'nice' nurse Lucy who fears 'she isn't good enough.'

I think his tone today was more professional and allowed her to feel she had some control back and she took it and began acting arrogant enough to call out nurses 20 years her senior and accuse coworkers of overfeeding babies.

 

[Tortoise]

I agree. And he doesn't want the jury to feel sorry for her. If he is too rough with her, she can cower and act like 'nice' nurse Lucy who fears 'she isn't good enough.'

I think his tone today was more professional and allowed her to feel she had some control back and she took it and began acting arrogant enough to call out nurses 20 years her senior and accuse coworkers of overfeeding babies.

BBM

and more knowledgeable than Dr Bohin!

 

[katydid23]

Thinking about it, it makes sense that LL would cower so quickly when NJ was speaking loudly and more aggressively.

Even though she is on trial for multiple murders and assaults, her victims were the absolute most fragile, vulnerable, innocent, helpless victims possible. If guilty, she is the ultimate coward.

 

[ColourPurple]

Oh, I think there were a few smoldering guns. Her records with Baby E's mum were seemingly false---nothing indicates that mum and dad were lying about the feed time being 9 pm---yet LL changed things like writing 'feed omitted' ---which was false. And she tried to negate her earlier testimony about mum bringing milk to the room.

And the explanation for the vomit,[ baby G?] --- which she described as being on the baby's clothing, instead of being on the next cot over---another lie

And she definitely got caught out with the timing of the vomiting incident when she tried to make it earlier so the other nurse would be in the room instead of her...but it didn't fit with the other nurses records, or the time that the dr was called for the collapse

I think there were a few gotcha moments in her records/observations

Then there was the fact that the baby she'd said she was looking after when Baby H first collapsed, hadn't even been born at that point

 

[Tortoise]

Then there was the fact that the baby she'd said she was looking after when Baby H first collapsed, hadn't even been born at that point

It's another one of those moments (among many others) that makes me think if the collapse was not caused by deliberate interference she would have no reason to say she wasn't there.

JMO

 

[ColourPurple]

It's another one of those moments (among many others) that makes me think if the collapse was not caused by deliberate interference she would have no reason to say she wasn't there.

JMO

Yes, if guilty, it does seem to be a bit of a "belt and braces" approach. eg it's as if her defence is "I don't believe the baby was murdered/attacked but if they were I wasn't there anyway"

JMO

 

[esther43]

Oh, I think there were a few smoldering guns. Her records with Baby E's mum were seemingly false---nothing indicates that mum and dad were lying about the feed time being 9 pm---yet LL changed things like writing 'feed omitted' ---which was false. And she tried to negate her earlier testimony about mum bringing milk to the room.

And the explanation for the vomit,[ baby G?] --- which she described as being on the baby's clothing, instead of being on the next cot over---another lie

And she definitely got caught out with the timing of the vomiting incident when she tried to make it earlier so the other nurse would be in the room instead of her...but it didn't fit with the other nurses records, or the time that the dr was called for the collapse

I think there were a few gotcha moments in her records/observations

And she also changed her own account re timing, from interview to appearing in court.

 

[Dcflag]

3:07pm

Letby sent in a text to her work colleague: '...looked rubbish when I took over this morning and then she vomited at 9 and I got her screened'
Mr Johnson says that text has two lies in it. Letby accepts she got the time wrong but says she was not asked about Child G's colour. Mr Johnson says Child G was doing well.
Mr Johnson shows a nursing colleague's note from the previous night shift and Letby's nursing note from that day shift. "Any suggestion [Child G] was looking 'rubbish'?"
Letby says Child G looked 'pale', but didn't use "rubbish", in clinical notes.
Letby denies deliberately falsifying times or making up negative observations for Child G.
Letby denies "passing off responsibility to other people", as suggested by Mr Johnson.
NJ: "In fact, you are the person causing all these problems."
LL: "No I'm not."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, May 24 - cross-examination continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

This is such a good point and helps to understand why we’ve been given so many snippets of text messages. We’ve been reading them as her reporting the events of the day, but the idea shes purposely making it seem the like babies are sicker than they were so it is “less suspicious” when they do collapse.

 

[Marantz4250b]

T

I

It won't have been 'raw sewage', of that I am certain.

I'm no plumber or drainage engineer but I've been involved in enough property renovations, and have had enough blocked drains in my house, to know that the suggestion that raw sewage coming up through the plug holes in sinks is bordering on the ludicrous!

How is that even supposed to happen?