UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #24

[katydid23]

Judith Moritz
@JudithMoritz
Court earlier heard evidence from a consultant who said he saw an unusual rash on baby O after the baby's collapse. Lucy Letby says "I don’t believe that’s what I saw. I saw mottling. But if that’s what he saw… and that’s what people take as being true, then yes…"

Court hears that a registrar who had been treating baby O left the room to speak to the baby's parents, and that after he left the baby deteriorated again. Nick Johnson KC: "That was baby O’s final decline wasn’t it.. do you remember it?" Lucy Letby: "No"

Court has heard past evidence from baby O's parents, and from a consultant, all of whom described the baby changing colour and having prominent veins. Nick Johnson KC: "That’s the truth isn’t it?" Lucy Letby: "I can’t comment on their truth. I didn’t see anything like that"

NJKC: "You injected air into baby O's stomach" LL: "No" NJKC: "You injected air into his circulation causing air embolus" LL: "No" NJKC: "Through violent mechanism you inflicted liver injury" LL: "No" NJKC: "These things all happened on your watch" LL: "Yes"

After the triplets died in June 2016, Lucy Letby was offered time off to help cope. She refused it, and said she wanted to carry on working. Nick Johnson KC: "Were you not bothered by what you’d witnessed?" Lucy Letby: "Of course I was bothered".

https://twitter.com/JudithMoritz
@JudithMoritz


After baby O died Lucy Letby texted another nurse to say that the baby "had a big tummy overnight but just ballooned after lunch". Nick Johnson KC suggests she was lying in her texts, and also that she was "setting up a false narrative" about the next triplet. She denies this.


Nick Johnson KC suggests that Lucy Letby submitted a hospital complaint form about lack of certain equipment at around the time she was being moved off the unit. Says to her, "You were very worried that they were onto you weren’t you?". The nurse replies "no".

Nick Johnson KC moves onto asking Lucy Letby about baby P who died the day after his triplet brother baby O died in June 2016. The nurse is alleged to have murdered them both within 24 hours. She denies this. (The third triplet is not an alleged victim in the trial).

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I find this really strange tbh for the very points you mention. I cannot recall anyone I’ve worked with who want out for a cigarette and did or didn’t wash their hands even on the day before any shift I’ve had; let alone remember this years after it happened! Even when it’s been quiet or not, there’s just no way I’d ever be able to recall who even smoked.
It’s really odd this sticks out in her mind but she can’t recall the note about CPAP a baby wasn’t even on.
JMO

Maybe if a baby came to harm by the spread of disease typical to unwashed hands then one would be fuming about the lack of hygiene and remember it forever. But that never happened did it? Also in same scenario, wouldn't one also be furious with self for not prompting said doctor to wash hands and feeling guilt / shame internally?

Anyway it's all garbage isn't it. A very childish attack and defence mechanism at play IMO MOO

 

[katydid23]

Letby 'falsified medical notes'
Letby is accused of falsifying a medical note, saying Child O was on CPAP (continuous positive airway pressure therapy) when he was not.

"The level of gas in the bowel is more than would have been expected in a normal baby," one doctor's note said.

"Why did you write CPAP in the gas chart?" Mr Johnson asks.

"I can't answer that now," Letby says.

"Do you accept he wasn't on CPAP?"

"He wasn't on the full CPAP machine," Letby says, but adds that he could have been receiving CPAP via neopuff.

Mr Johnson continues to take the court through what happened on the afternoon of 23 June 2016, the day Child O died.

The colleague whom Letby allegedly had a crush on came to intubate Child O.

The pair exchanged a series of Facebook messages between 2.08pm and 2.37pm, discussing the procedure - and the male colleague's lunch.

Letby disputes she was on the unit at this time, hence why the two were texting.


Medical notes show Letby was allegedly attending to Child O at 2.30pm

Lucy Letby trial live: Nurse 'killed two triplets' after returning from Ibiza - and sent 'back with a bang' text

Lucy Letby, a former neonatal nurse, is back in court for another day of cross-examination by the prosecution. She is accused of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of 10 others, and denies all the charges.

news.sky.com

SkyNewsLive

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

So…..this hospital was unlucky enough to hire numerous incompetent doctors and nurses who were unable to perform the basic duties of their role…. But able to construct a highly complex cover up and collaborate to pin a series of deaths on one very unlucky nurse! Hmmmm

Yep it's a pretty elaborate cover up for a bunch of blundering fools to orchestrate.

 

[Dotta]

So,
She was "back with a BIG BIG bang"
But there is no "LOL" (quoting her) about it, not at all

JMO

 

[katydid23]

'Did you want his attention?' - Letby asked about crush​

Swipe data shows Letby re-entered the neonatal unit at 2.39pm on 23 June 2016, the day Child O died.
"Where were you at around this time?" Nick Johnson KC, for the prosecution, asks.
"I can't say definitively, but I have come through the labour ward," Letby says.
"Had you just nipped out to make it look like you weren't around when Child O collapsed?"
"No."
Letby is now asked why she called a colleague she allegedly had a crush on to attend Child O.
"Were you trying to get his attention?" Mr Johnson asks.
"Yes, I wanted him to review [Child O]," Letby replies.
"But his personal attention?"
"No."

Lucy Letby trial live: Nurse 'killed two triplets' after returning from Ibiza - and sent 'back with a bang' text

Lucy Letby, a former neonatal nurse, is back in court for another day of cross-examination by the prosecution. She is accused of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of 10 others, and denies all the charges.

news.sky.com

Child O's 'dramatic death'​

At 3.53pm on 23 June 2016, a senior doctor swiped back on to the unit to try and save Child O.
"This was Child O's final decline, wasn't it," Mr Johnson says.
"Yes," Letby says.
"Do you remember it happening?"
"This specific moment? I put the crash call out."
"Do you remember it?"
"No."
"It was a very dramatic death, wasn't it?"
"I remember his death, I don't remember the exact moment when he declined."
Letby is then asked when she pulled Child O's nasogastric tube out of his stomach.
"I don't recall pulling the tube out of his stomach," she says.

 

[katydid23]

Letby 'didn't want connection' between her and Child O liver injury​

Lucy Letby is accused of distancing herself from Child O's resuscitation because of the liver injury he sustained at some point during her shift.
"You don't want to have any connection between you and the liver injury because you are now running the case it was the CPR that caused the liver injury," Mr Johnson asks.
"No," says Letby.
Mr Johnson then asks: "How did Child O get that liver injury?"
"I don't know."

Lucy Letby trial live: Nurse 'killed two triplets' after returning from Ibiza - and sent 'back with a bang' text

Lucy Letby, a former neonatal nurse, is back in court for another day of cross-examination by the prosecution. She is accused of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of 10 others, and denies all the charges.

news.sky.com

 

[marynnu]

Babies frequently desaturate to 30% level? And often? Isn't that the brink of death and likely for cardiac issues at that point?

Absolutely. You're in CPR territory if it's that low. Desats are quite common of course, but you intervene way before it gets anywhere near this. I personally maybe saw it a handful of times in over 30 years.

 

[Blondiexoxo]

I don’t understand why she’s refusing to admit to texting in clinical areas when NJ has proven that she was doing so through the timings of her messages IMO.

We all know how much it hurts as adults to have trapped wind, can you imagine how much agony these babies were in after being pumped with air? We’ve heard of screaming babies with swollen little abdomens, bleeding from the mouth, liver injuries and overfed to the point of projectile vomiting. Anyone capable of this deserves a whole life order if guilty IMO. All these accusations and she’s disputing texting, rashes, or whether a light was on or off. All MOO

 

[Sundial]

Maybe if a baby came to harm by the spread of disease typical to unwashed hands then one would be fuming about the lack of hygiene and remember it forever. But that never happened did it? Also in same scenario, wouldn't one also be furious with self for not prompting said doctor to wash hands and feeling guilt / shame internally?

Anyway it's all garbage isn't it. A very childish attack and defence mechanism at play IMO MOO

Thing is; if what she says is true and the unwashed hands and things and sewage etc; I’m fairly sure we’d have a heck of a lot more seriously sick or massively increased mortality rates from that unit than what has been presented. Very immune-suppressed, fragile teeny premature babies, exposed to poor hand washing and allegedly raw sewage; these incidents and death rate I would expect would be way way higher.

Now that’s not to say there has been heard already one of the parents said something already about staff poor handwashing; but is this LL on that bandwagon (was it reported to her- as in did the parent complain to her?) or did she actually see this? She’s not discussed it with her colleagues via message when she seemed quite quick to highlight others errors, and at the same time it doesn’t sound like she reported it/actioned it anywhere either. Very much like the raw sewage thing. She just appears to be the only person (that I’ve read at least) that is saying these things.
JMO

 

[Kemug]

IMO it depends what triggered it all but yes of course, if guilty, she would at least have been known to people close to her for using highly coercive and manipulative behaviour to get her needs met.

Maybe she started off by doing something not particularly serious to a baby, just to get some excitement and attention. But it gradually escalated as she found she enjoyed it, and became addicted. JMO

 

[katydid23]

Letby 'pumped air into Child P' before leaving work​

Text messages Lucy Letby sent in the aftermath of Child O's death are shown to the court.
Colleague (9.13pm): Your notes must have taken a long time - Had you documented anything from this morning?
Letby (9.14pm): Only a little. Had the other 2 to write on as well and sorting out the ffp [a type of blood transfusion] etc. Left signing for drugs until tomorrow.
Letby (9.15pm): Can't think straight so took a while
The court is then shown another conversation Letby was having with another colleague at the same time.
Colleague 2 (9.14pm): F***** hell what happened
Letby (9.15pm): Blew up abdomen think it's sepsis
"I am also going to suggest you are telling your friend [...] lies in these texts," Mr Johnson says, before showing another text.
Letby to Colleague 2 (9.16pm) Had big tummy overnight but just ballooned after lunch and went from there
Mr Johnson suggests this was a "not accurate" reflection of what had happened on the night shift.
"I believe he had had an enlarged abdomen overnight," Letby says.
Letby then expressed concern in a text to Colleague 2 about Child O's triplet.
Mr Johnson accuses Letby of "trying to create in the minds of other people" that there would be a similar problem with Child P.
"No, that is not what I am suggesting," Letby says.

"Because that is what you were planning," Mr Johnson says.

"No, it is not."

"Because you had already put your plan into motion by pumping air into Child P before you left."

"No."

Lucy Letby trial live: Nurse 'killed two triplets' after returning from Ibiza - and sent 'back with a bang' text

Lucy Letby, a former neonatal nurse, is back in court for another day of cross-examination by the prosecution. She is accused of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of 10 others, and denies all the charges.

news.sky.com

 

[Blondiexoxo]

Maybe she started off by doing something not particularly serious to a baby, just to get some excitement and attention. But it gradually escalated as she found she enjoyed it, and became addicted. JMO

If guilty it may have started with a pinch here to see them cry, a hand over the mouth there to watch the sats go down. I’m not sure how this could ever give anyone any type of thrill but then someone capable of this wouldn’t have the same thought processes and feelings as us. It’s torturous is what it is IMO

 

[katydid23]

Child O died in his parents' arms after being baptised​

Child O was baptised and then died in his parents' arms at 5.47pm on 23 June 2016.
In her nursing notes the following day, Lucy Letby wrote "peripheral access lost" in relation to why the infant required an IV.
A doctor has previously told the court this was not true.
"That is [colleague]'s opinion," Letby tells the court.
Letby is accused of injecting air into Child O.
"Why were you making an untrue statement in the form?" Mr Johnson asks.
"I don't believe it was untrue at the time."
"Is it just a coincidence you were making this report pretty much at the time you had been removed from the unit?" Mr Johnson asks.
"I hadn't been removed from the unit at this point."
Letby says she was removed from the neonatal unit in July.
"You were very worried they were on to you, weren't they?"
"No."

Lucy Letby trial live: Nurse 'killed two triplets' after returning from Ibiza - and sent 'back with a bang' text

Lucy Letby, a former neonatal nurse, is back in court for another day of cross-examination by the prosecution. She is accused of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of 10 others, and denies all the charges.

news.sky.com

 

[Jayney404]

If guilty it may have started with a pinch here to see them cry, a hand over the mouth there to watch the sats go down. I’m not sure how this could ever give anyone any type of thrill but then someone capable of this wouldn’t have the same thought processes and feelings as us. It’s torturous is what it is IMO

If guilty it may also explain the other handover notes that are seemingly innocuous. They were in fact incidents but never reached the threshold of a collapse / resus.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Thing is; if what she says is true and the unwashed hands and things and sewage etc; I’m fairly sure we’d have a heck of a lot more seriously sick or massively increased mortality rates from that unit than what has been presented. Very immune-suppressed, fragile teeny premature babies, exposed to poor hand washing and allegedly raw sewage; these incidents and death rate I would expect would be way way higher.

Now that’s not to say there has been heard already one of the parents said something already about staff poor handwashing; but is this LL on that bandwagon (was it reported to her- as in did the parent complain to her?) or did she actually see this? She’s not discussed it with her colleagues via message when she seemed quite quick to highlight others errors, and at the same time it doesn’t sound like she reported it/actioned it anywhere either. Very much like the raw sewage thing. She just appears to be the only person (that I’ve read at least) that is saying these things.
JMO

Indeed and there's very specific sets of bacteria and diseases relating to unclean environments and thus far we haven't heard them raised in this case except for sepsis.

Also would it not be her responsibility to flag up these issues by way of at least feedback in team meetings or outright whistle-blowing?

I would imagine a frantic and distraught parent who can't understand why their previously stable baby would suddenly go into crisis, then die, would make all sorts of accusations and allegations against the hospital and staff. Because to them it would make no sense and they want to make sense of it, part of the grief process is to naturally run through the mind every area where there could have been a failing.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

Court breaks after Letby denies overfeeding Child P
Letby denies overfeeding Child P after his brother died.
"You overfed Child P sometime between 6pm and handing him over at 8pm, didn't you?" Nick Johnson KC, for the prosecution, asks.
"No, I did not."
The court has adjourned for lunch.
Proceedings will resume at 2.10pm.

Child P 'took a turn' after his brother died​

The prosecution is now moving on to the case of Child P - Child O's triplet brother.
Child P died on 24 June 2016 - a day after his brother - as he was being prepared for transfer to another hospital.
"Do you accept Child P was born in good condition?" Nick Johnson KC, the prosecution barrister, asks.
"Yes," Lucy Letby says.
An examination on 23 June noted Child P's condition as "unremarkable".
But, Mr Johnson claims, events "took a turn" after Child O's death that evening.
"Do you agree?" he asks.
"Yes."
A doctor previously noted that Child P had been doing "Remarkably well for a triplet baby and very well grown."
Blood tests also came back as "entirely normal".

 

[Kemug]

Maybe the types of papers she collected the most were ones relating to anything featuring herself and Doc Choc? Handover notes with both their initial on, or his writing, or their names printed in the same list etc. Maybe she was 'collecting' indeed but not in relation to the babies? JMO MOO

Yes, but that's the sort of thing teenage girls do when they have a crush. Whereas, reading their texts, she only had to raise a finger to take the relationship (whatever it was) to a higher level.

 

[Blondiexoxo]

If guilty it may also explain the other handover notes that are seemingly innocuous. They were in fact incidents but never reached the threshold of a collapse / resus.

I’ve long suspected this, just because there wasn’t a collapse doesn’t mean other babies weren’t harmed in some way. There are many things that wouldn’t necessarily cause abnormal readings or blood gases. Even things such as a baby being prescribed medication and not giving it to them, like withholding pain meds or feeds to see them suffer for example. Nurses are in such a position of trust and power that they can record something as having happened with no questions asked. People don’t ever imagine someone would intentionally harm neonates. I never would have until this case IMO.

 

[katydid23]

If guilty it may also explain the other handover notes that are seemingly innocuous. They were in fact incidents but never reached the threshold of a collapse / resus.

I've also wondered if she had used those handovers to look at the other patients for future potential victims. JMO