UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #26

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  • #701
I am honestly surprised that half of the jury hasn’t rang in sick after the clarity of the closing statement from NJKC. The names of the babies and the linking injuries and causes of deaths must have turned their stomachs. If I was on the jury I would have gone straight home and hugged all of my grandchildren and thanked God they were safe.
My first grandson died shortly after birth so reading this case has been torturous.
MOO
 
  • #702
I think I must have missed something here. What evidence does NJ have that LL lied about the missing plug? I agree it looks like she is possibly trying to cover her tracks, if guilty, but it is also possible the cover really was missing from a baby’s IV line. It wouldn’t be the first time something like that happened in an ICU.

What looks bad to me, would be if this was the first time she reported an incident like this. Then the timing would seem suspicious. IMO, and if guilty.
Well I suppose you could add it to the list of coincidences. That babies O and P (allegedly) had died from air embolism a few days before, and on her last ever shift when we know she was having meltdowns about Dr Gibbs asking questions and being taken off nights, she filed a report about the risk of accidental air embolism, eight hours after she claimed to have noticed it, presumably at handover that morning so another nurse is again being thrown under the bus by LL, because it happened on their watch and they didn't notice it, and LL started texting her friends about the risk of air embolism.

JMO
 
  • #703
Well I suppose you could add it to the list of coincidences. That babies O and P (allegedly) had died from air embolism a few days before, and on her last ever shift when we know she was having meltdowns about Dr Gibbs asking questions and being taken off nights, she filed a report about the risk of accidental air embolism, eight hours after she claimed to have noticed it, presumably at handover that morning so another nurse is again being thrown under the bus by LL, because it happened on their watch and they didn't notice it, and LL started texting her friends about the risk of air embolism.

JMO

OK, thanks for your reply. I totally agree it’s quite a “coincidence” and looks very bad. I am just surprised NJ would outright call it a lie instead of letting the jury infer that on their own. Maybe that’s just his style? In my opinion, if guilty.
 
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  • #704
Come on, jury! Hang in there, you can do it! Just a little bit longer, yes yes, keep going!
 
  • #705
OK, thanks for your reply. I totally agree it’s quite a “coincidence” and looks very bad. I am just surprised NJ would outright call it a lie instead of letting the jury infer that on their own. Maybe that’s just his style? In my opinion, if guilty.
He has to point out the things in his case that he says are lies and gaslighting, because he can't rely on the jury to evaluate it for truth if he hasn't pointed that out to them.

Ultimately it's the jury's decision whether this was a lie and all part of her alleged criminal behaviour or not, based on her being confronted with it in cross-examination.
 
  • #706
Did we ever find out what the potential job opening was that LL thought she was lined up for around the end of June 2016? I'm guessing it wasn't the move to admin that she was referring to :oops:

Letby asks: "What gestation are the trips? I don't mind being busy anyway..."

Doctor: "33+5 [weeks gestation]. 3x Optiflo..."

After more messages, the doctor asks Letby if she has any choice where she is working.

Letby: "No, not with this new handover. Shift leader of night shift allocates for the day shift and vice versa. If your on a run of shifts you tend to stay with same babies."

Letby adds due to the skillsets, she tends to work in nursery room 1.

Letby adds she feels "most at home with ITU [intensive treatment unit] and the girls know that Im quite happy to be in 1 so works out well most of the time."

The doctor replies: "...I like it when you're in itu - everything feels safe and well organised..."

Letby: "Awe that's nice to hear, Huw often says that too - see what happens tomorrow."


Letby adds there is a potential job opening on the unit which she believes she might be lined up for.

The doctor: 'If you didn't want it now, could you defer?'

Letby: 'Yes good to know and worth thinking about...& yes, I'm sure she would let me defer.'


 
  • #707
He has to point out the things in his case that he says are lies and gaslighting, because he can't rely on the jury to evaluate it for truth if he hasn't pointed that out to them.

Ultimately it's the jury's decision whether this was a lie and all part of her alleged criminal behaviour or not, based on her being confronted with it in cross-examination.

Ok, thanks very much— appreciate your reply.
 
  • #708
I’m surprised the jurors have barely been off sick for so many months. I must’ve had at least 6 viruses that knocked me out completely with fever for at least a 5 days at a time since the trial started. I wonder if they chose jurors without young children who bring endless bugs from school.
 
  • #709
I think I must have missed something here. What evidence does NJ have that LL lied about the missing plug? I agree it looks like she is possibly trying to cover her tracks, if guilty, but it is also possible the cover really was missing from a baby’s IV line. It wouldn’t be the first time something like that happened in an ICU.

What looks bad to me, would be if this was the first time she reported an incident like this. Then the timing would seem suspicious. IMO, and if guilty.

I think she started work 07.30 but didn't report this till about 3pm, which has been cited as a little suspicious.
 
  • #710
Did we ever find out what the potential job opening was that LL thought she was lined up for around the end of June 2016? I'm guessing it wasn't the move to admin that she was referring to :oops:

Letby asks: "What gestation are the trips? I don't mind being busy anyway..."

Doctor: "33+5 [weeks gestation]. 3x Optiflo..."

After more messages, the doctor asks Letby if she has any choice where she is working.

Letby: "No, not with this new handover. Shift leader of night shift allocates for the day shift and vice versa. If your on a run of shifts you tend to stay with same babies."

Letby adds due to the skillsets, she tends to work in nursery room 1.

Letby adds she feels "most at home with ITU [intensive treatment unit] and the girls know that Im quite happy to be in 1 so works out well most of the time."

The doctor replies: "...I like it when you're in itu - everything feels safe and well organised..."

Letby: "Awe that's nice to hear, Huw often says that too - see what happens tomorrow."


Letby adds there is a potential job opening on the unit which she believes she might be lined up for.

The doctor: 'If you didn't want it now, could you defer?'

Letby: 'Yes good to know and worth thinking about...& yes, I'm sure she would let me defer.'


I would love to know what that job was, and why he thought she might not want it at that time.
 
  • #711
I think she started work 07.30 but didn't report this till about 3pm, which has been cited as a little suspicious.
Do these things have to be reported immediately? Or in theory can a nurse fix the issue and report what happened at the end of her shift?
 
  • #712
Do these things have to be reported immediately? Or in theory can a nurse fix the issue and report what happened at the end of her shift?

You could report it any time. I'm not sure how many people would do so as it wouldn't achieve anything, but that's just my view!
 
  • #713
@MrDanDonoghue
·
2h

Replying to
@MrDanDonoghue
The judge has just indicated that - if there are no more delays - the defence closing will be completed by the end of next week, his summing up will be done the following week, meaning jury may go out to consider their verdict in week of 10 July

I’ve just seen that there is no court today on Dan’s twitter feed.

I was in Manchester on Wednesday and thought if I had time I’d go over to court but changed my mind after reading Mon and Tues compelling closing speeches. I got all upset just reading them and think hearing it and also hearing the babies names would of tipped me over the edge.
 
  • #714
So the judge thinks next week will be needed for the defence closing speech and his summing up will now be in the week starting 3 June... Can Mr Myers be going to go through every case, then?
 
  • #715
In which case I'm glad its not on today and by the time they're back next week no court days will coincide with the anniversary of a baby's death or the alleged attack on them.
It is "Fate" again.

It would be travesty to hear defence of an alleged murderer on the day of anniversary of Victim's death :(

Rest in Peace Little Angel.

JMO
 
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  • #716
A week for defence closing! Poor jury!
 
  • #717
  • #718
No me neither. I am guessing he will go through it all chronologically.
So jury out on the 10th July now, just over a 9 month trial.
That’s not lost on me either.
 
  • #719
This trial is like no other I have ever followed.
Not that I followed many, but still!
 
  • #720
Father's agreed statement -

On the day Child N was due to come home, on June 15, the father was at work. He received a call from Lucy Letby saying Child N was 'a bit unwell' during the night, but was fine now. He did not get the impression that Child N was still unwell.
He then received a call from child N's mother to come to the hospital as soon as possible.
When he arrived, Lucy Letby was in the room with Child N, giving cares. There was "no urgency". Lucy said: "Hi. He's been a bit unwell during the night."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, March 2


"He said he was "shocked" when he saw Child N, adding: "[His] skin was blueish in colour, all over his body.
"He had dried blood around his lips. His lips weren't fully covered in blood, there was loads spattered over him like he'd coughed.
"I remember being confused and thinking, 'what's wrong with him?'"
"No-one told us what happened, or why."

Lucy Letby: Dad found baby spattered in blood, trial hears

cross-exam -

Mr Johnson asks Letby when blood was seen orally on Child N.
Letby replies "the only time definitively" she recalled that was at 3pm. she says that is on her memory "sitting here now".
Mr Johnson says if she had recorded blood observations at the time, would she accept that now? Letby says she would, although it may have been based on what people had informed her at the time.
Mr Johnson says the one who would have informed her would have been the doctor colleague she "loved as a friend".
Letby's nursing note: '...infant transferred to nursery 1 on handover. Mottled, desaturating requiring Neopuff and oxygen.'

Letby's note, written at 1.53pm-2.10pm adds: 'unable to intubate - fresh blood noted in mouth and yielded via suction ++'.
Letby says the 3pm blood observation was the first one she could "definitively remember".
Mr Johnson says this note is a 'good hour' before that observation.
Letby denies Child N was bleeding from when she first got involved that day.

Letby says she knows there was blood recorded prior to 3pm.
Mr Johnson says the doctor colleague recalled, in evidence, seeing blood before the intubation process at 8am.
Benjamin Myers KC, for the defence, rises to say that in cross-examination, the doctor colleague did not rule out the possibility the blood was present after the attempt to intubate.
Mr Johnson says there was an attempt to intubate at 8am. Letby agrees. Letby also agrees with the observation there was swelling at the back of Child M's [N's] throat. She says she "cannot comment" further on what the doctor colleague saw.

Letby recorded in her notes, written at 1.53pm retrospectively: '...unable to intubate - fresh blood noted in mouth and yielded via suction ++'
Mr Johnson says the doctors could not see, for the blood. Letby says she cannot say what doctors observed.

Letby is asked about family communication with Child N's parents. A note by Letby at the time: 'Parents were contacted by S/N Butterworth during intubation. Both mobile phones switched off and no answer on landline. Message left. Call returned shortly after and parents were asked to attend. Have been present since.
'Both understandably upset...'
Agreed evidence said Child N's mother had said Lucy Letby had been in contact with them.
Letby says "it's a difference in recollection".
Mr Johnson says this is agreed evidence, it's the truth.
He says Letby's note "is a lie".
Letby: "no, it's not."
The mother recalled Child N 'had a bleed and was unwell', and said Letby had informed the parents of this.
Letby: "No, I disagree."
NJ: "But it's agreed evidence."
LL: "Well, I disagree with it now."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 7 - cross-examination continues
Was any evidence adduced that I have missed from the parents phone? Would there not be a digital record if switched off for a period?
 
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