UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #26

[Marantz4250b]

He's probably going to bore us all to sleep.
I'm curious to see what he says about LL's character. It's still perplexing me why noone came to LL's aid.
I have been trying to understand all this 'good and bad character stuff' and the 'applications' which are really confusing.
However it does seem that the only reference to LL's good character that has been made was in the opening speeches. "She was a dedicated nurse"
And all his questioning was "did she work hard?' 'was she good at her job?'
Zero on the kind of person she was from BM yet plenty from NJ on her bad character.
From what I read, it was really confusing around what is and is allowed to be said about any witnesses character. Everything apparantly having to go through a prior application process?
So Myers is not allowed to make inferences about the characters of all of the witnesses to prove his own case. Which is probably why he was so gentle with the drs just dancing around points saying things like

'so that was your gotcha moment was it?'

Whilst with Evans a 'bad character application' was made so now Myers can now discredit him at any opportunity and hence Bohin is largely the Dr referenced instead?

Bad Character Evidence — Defence-Barrister.co.uk

Understand the implications of bad character evidence in court, including its use and impact on cases. Visit Defence-Barrister.co.uk for detailed insights.

www.defence-barrister.co.uk

Her "good character" is largely irrelevant, though. You can't just use the defence of she can't have done it because everyone thinks she's lovely and her parents adore her because it in no way counters the evidence presented by the prosecution.

Someone may be the most hard working, most skilled nurse in history but that isn't evidence that they didn't inject insulin into a TPN bag.

 

[Marantz4250b]

IMOO -

In the midst of an apparent media witch hunt against the defendant - I sincerely hope the defence team delivers substance in the closing arguments next week. As opposed to a continuing spectacle of baring witness to fair justice in fond memory.

Where do you get the idea that there is a media witch hunt against her? I cannot see any evidence of that at all and, in truth, this trial is getting far less coverage than I'd ever guessed it would have.

 

[Tortoise]

But what can be "reasonable doubt"?

Well...I cannot be lured into answering this.

 

[Becky53]

I wonder if she would have had to move out of the COCH hospital accommodation while she did the course/Liverpool placement, hence her living in a flat for 6 months?

I vaguely remember some text messages were shown to court about her wanting to claim travel expenses and the Mersey tunnel being expensive to use daily. She complained I think about how you could claim for one type of course but not another.

sorry admin can’t find a link

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

She has had a fair trial. There has not been a media ‘witch hunt’, they have simply reported the evidence that has been presented to the jury.

Yes, the media is much more restrained these days. You only have to look back at the media’s coverage of Christopher Jefferies when he was arrested for Joanna Yeates murder to see how much they’ve had to dial it back.

 

[Tortoise]

Ah thanks for pointing out the 2016 error. It was an assumption on my part because he didn't pop up in the case until a little way along.
Also re EP being called by the judge, it's not a fact but as she was called between the point that the prosecution rested and the defence began (with Lucy) this would suggest it was the judges decision.

She was called before the prosecution rested.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, April 27

 

[ColourPurple]

I vaguely remember some text messages were shown to court about her wanting to claim travel expenses and the Mersey tunnel being expensive to use daily. She complained I think about how you could claim for one type of course but not another.

sorry admin can’t find a link

Ah yes, well remembered.

 

[Becky53]

I vaguely remember some text messages were shown to court about her wanting to claim travel expenses and the Mersey tunnel being expensive to use daily. She complained I think about how you could claim for one type of course but not another.

sorry admin can’t find a link

Found it now. So she was travelling and using tunnel at some point for whatever 405 is.

On April 8, Sophie Ellis messaged Letby: "How's the house pal? "

Letby responds: "Hey, it's feels a bit weird having a whole house but It's good thanks, although stuff everywhere as moved in properly on Tue & been at work Wed Thurs & today . Doing tomorrow as an extra so I'll see you tomorrow night. Won't be such an early start for you now back in Chester!..."

The reply: "Yeah I bet it does, it'll feel more homely once you've sorted everything out. Jeeeez 4 [Long Day shifts] in a row, are you ok?! I know yay and I don't have to pay for petrol, it's cost me a fortune . Yeah they are haven't seen them for a while. What's the unit like? "

Letby: "Yeah I'll get there in time. Petrol & tunnel soon mounts up doesn't it! Can you claim travel expenses? I couldn't for 405. Unit is busy, No one particularly unwell just volume & few people off sick. I prefer 4 days to 4 nights. Least tomorrow is an extra & Sat pay! . Awe that'll be nice hope weather a bit better for you! X"

SE: "Yeah we can. Omg really, how come? That's 7 weeks aswell isn't it? Yeah, 4 nights are awful. Ah that's not too bad then. Think I'd prefer to keep busy. I think it's meant to rain...dammit "

LL: "Eirian said something about the induction being paid for by the trust whereas the 405 comes out of network budget so won't pay as its an expected part of role to progress etc. Mad really & costs a bomb! We've got nice mix of babies at the mo really. Shift goes quick anyway! Grr typical April showers haha. [Colleague] is in Thailand & It's been 44degrees today! X"

Letby said it was a "massive" life moment for her to move into her new house, and her main focus was on "sorting out the house".

Letby says the unit was "still fairly busy" at this point.

On April 11, Letby messages a colleague: "The unit is in dire way with staff..."

She says the unit had 'banker agency staff' and band 5s who did not have the ITU course.

She says the unit being busy was "often discussed by staff".

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, May 16 - defence continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[ColourPurple]

Found it now. So she was travelling and using tunnel at some point for whatever 405 is.

On April 8, Sophie Ellis messaged Letby: "How's the house pal? *advertiser censored*"

Letby responds: "Hey, it's feels a bit weird having a whole house but It's good thanks, although stuff everywhere as moved in properly on Tue & been at work Wed Thurs & today . Doing tomorrow as an extra so I'll see you tomorrow night. Won't be such an early start for you now back in Chester!..."

The reply: "Yeah I bet it does, it'll feel more homely once you've sorted everything out. Jeeeez 4 [Long Day shifts] in a row, are you ok?! I know yay and I don't have to pay for petrol, it's cost me a fortune . Yeah they are haven't seen them for a while. What's the unit like? *advertiser censored*"

Letby: "Yeah I'll get there in time. Petrol & tunnel soon mounts up doesn't it! Can you claim travel expenses? I couldn't for 405. Unit is busy, No one particularly unwell just volume & few people off sick. I prefer 4 days to 4 nights. Least tomorrow is an extra & Sat pay! . Awe that'll be nice hope weather a bit better for you! X"

SE: "Yeah we can. Omg really, how come? That's 7 weeks aswell isn't it? Yeah, 4 nights are awful. Ah that's not too bad then. Think I'd prefer to keep busy. I think it's meant to rain...dammit *advertiser censored*"

LL: "Eirian said something about the induction being paid for by the trust whereas the 405 comes out of network budget so won't pay as its an expected part of role to progress etc. Mad really & costs a bomb! We've got nice mix of babies at the mo really. Shift goes quick anyway! Grr typical April showers haha. [Colleague] is in Thailand & It's been 44degrees today! X"

Letby said it was a "massive" life moment for her to move into her new house, and her main focus was on "sorting out the house".

Letby says the unit was "still fairly busy" at this point.

On April 11, Letby messages a colleague: "The unit is in dire way with staff..."

She says the unit had 'banker agency staff' and band 5s who did not have the ITU course.

She says the unit being busy was "often discussed by staff".

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, May 16 - defence continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Ah yes, I remember googling and finding it was ENB 405 (Special and Intensive Care of the Newborn)

 

[ColourPurple]

Yes, the media is much more restrained these days. You only have to look back at the media’s coverage of Christopher Jefferies when he was arrested for Joanna Yeates murder to see how much they’ve had to dial it back.

I know the podcast has a big following but I'm not sure the case itself does in general. I know on the odd occasion when I've mentioned it "in real life" the name Lucy Letby seems to mean nothing to anyone, and there's only a vague awareness of the case. I had one person say "Oh is that the nurse accused of killing babies" . I'm sure that will change if she's found guilty though. I read online rather than paper newspapers. Has the trial ever even made the front page since it started last year?

 

[Sundial]

She qualified in 2011

She said she did a three-year programme of nursing at the University of Chester, splitting her time between the university '50:50' and placements to gain clinical experience. The majority of her clinical experience was at the Countess of Chester Hospital, split between the children's ward and the neonatal ward.
She qualified as a band 5 nurse in September 2011...
...
Letby obtained her 'QIS' qualification allowing her to look after intensive care babies, following a university module, which included a placement at Liverpool Women's Hospital involving hands-on clinical experience. The six-month course concluded in March/April 2015.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, May 2 - defence begins

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Ah ok thank you; been so much heard already it’s been trying at times to keep tabs on everything. To clarify, this rules out my previous thoughts. Still a rather long time in band 5 though. Just strange in general and I can’t seem to pinpoint why. I feel there’s more to this training etc that we’ve not heard/held from the public. Understandably in some sense too.

JMO

 

[ColourPurple]

Ah ok thank you; been so much heard already it’s been trying at times to keep tabs on everything. To clarify, this rules out my previous thoughts. Still a rather long time in band 5 though. Just strange in general and I can’t seem to pinpoint why. I feel there’s more to this training etc that we’ve not heard/held from the public. Understandably in some sense too.

JMO

Yes, it still doesn't explain what intensive care course and Liverpool placement she was doing back in 2013. Strange.

 

[Tortoise]

Yes, it still doesn't explain what intensive care course and Liverpool placement she was doing back in 2013. Strange.

Well she said she didn't fail anything, but I suppose there's the possibility of not completing the training when she first did it.

 

[Sundial]

Well she said she didn't fail anything, but I suppose there's the possibility of not completing the training when she first did it.

If guilty, another possibility is doing the additional training etc (even if she did indeed pass) and yet still not progressing or being exclusively placed in ITU.
It reminds me of her comments about mell being able to do something and yet she was told no. She really does seem to me inwardly angry and resentful about something. If guilty.

JMO

 

[Sundial]

Well she said she didn't fail anything, but I suppose there's the possibility of not completing the training when she first did it.

In addition, there’s also her mention to dr choc about her health and the blips she mentioned. And of course, IF the equipment in her house was actually for her own use. It could explain a long gap in any training/work I suppose.

Moo

 

[marynnu]

Yes, it still doesn't explain what intensive care course and Liverpool placement she was doing back in 2013. Strange.

Was it a mentorship course? Or is my addled brain making that up?

 

[Parker Knoll]

She will of commuted to LWH from Chester as it’s really not that far at all or 20 mins direct on the train if that if she was living in Chester city centre.
I feel the media have been very restrained on this case as it absolutely should be, IIRC Sky News were thrown out of court for mistakenly using one of the babies names very early doors in this and they know they cannot mess this up but I am amazed at how few people know about it or are following it ( here is all I have as my daughter is sick to death of discussing it ! ) She has a close friend who is doing placements at MRI and when I ask her nobody is discussing it at all …. Eh ?
The DM don’t stick crime reporters on a mega long case and produce a podcast running along side the trial for nothing.
There is tonnes going on behind the scene I am sure.
All my opinion only of course.

 

[esther43]

She was called before the prosecution rested.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, April 27

If she was a prosecution witness why was she questioned by the defence first?

 

[Tortoise]

Was it a mentorship course? Or is my addled brain making that up?

11:10am

Letby adds she completed a mentorship course so when students came in, she could be their sole mentor at work. She qualified as a mentor "fairly early on", 'probably in 2012.'
She says she "really enjoyed that aspect".

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Tuesday, May 2 - defence begins

 

[Tortoise]

If she was a prosecution witness why was she questioned by the defence first?

Perhaps because they had questions to ask her that they hadn't asked?

She could have been declared a hostile witness for the prosecution at that point, to permit them to cross-examine her, I don't know though.