UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #26

[IDK]

I have a question about ll’s cross examination by the prosecutor. It appears she denied all the accusations he levied at her. I was surprised her answers were so short, in many instances.

Had she been instructed to keep her answers short? Would she have been cut off if she tried to provide more details and explanations? IMO, and if guilty.

 

[ShireChe]

Do you think, if guilty, we the public will find out a lot more about her personal life and what would amount to 'explanations' and motivations and her psyche?

It's possible we may do, but sometimes people never give up the true reasons behind what they do and sometimes they may just not even be able to explain/understand themselves what they have done.

In her own written words "No-one will ever know what happened and why I am a failure"

I'm sure plenty of media stories will be ready to go as soon as the verdict is made and reporting restrictions allow it. Whether we will ever get the true motive is yet to be seen.

If found guilty of course

 

[Dotta]

I have a question about ll’s cross examination by the prosecutor. It appears she denied all the accusations he levied at her. I was surprised her answers were so short, in many instances.

Had she been instructed to keep her answers short? Would she have been cut off if she tried to provide more details and explanations? IMO, and if guilty.

It is forbidden for Defence to coach her - as far as I know.

She was on her own at this stand.

And if guilty...

I have a feeling that she took the stand solely for her parents - to show them she was fighting.
They were crying listening to her while Defence questioned her.

But I saw no fight in her, only resignation.

That is why, IMO, she gave curt, simple "No" and "I don't remember".

She even didn't try to justify things - handover sheets, for example.
"I collect paper" was laughable.

Far cry from her persuasive texts trying to cover her tracks while still working.

She seems to be reconciled with her fate.

But it is ONLY MY OPINION!

After all,
Destination Imagination is my "curse"

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I have a question about ll’s cross examination by the prosecutor. It appears she denied all the accusations he levied at her. I was surprised her answers were so short, in many instances.

Had she been instructed to keep her answers short? Would she have been cut off if she tried to provide more details and explanations? IMO, and if guilty.

I would imagine so. Yes, no, don't know, don't recall. Pretty much covers it LOL

Usually in court the questions are asked directly and in absolutes so the defendant doesn't get to give long winded circuitous replies. JMO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I've been thinking about 'I collect paper' (except bank statements) and in a way, it's a radically true statement but it offers no explanation whatsoever and closes down discourse.

Clearly, she had a collection of paper under her bed and in the bags. Undeniable. She can't say it wasn't there or her word means nothing.

She doesn't want to go there as to why she brought it home with her, whether there was a selection process, why she didn't shred it upon noticing she brought it home. In fact she's so distant from it, she didn't even bring it home, it just 'came home with me'.

There's so many different answers she could have given but this one just shuts it all down. You collect paper but not bank statements. Oh, OK then, nothing to see here... JMO MOO

 

[Sundial]

If guilty, the times of being cold and calculated were over at this point. She was no longer in control. We saw glimpses of her reaction when she lost control before "Who are these people, who are these people?" and "I'm having a meltdown++". However, being removed from the ward and investigated was loss of control on a massive scale.

JMO, if guilty.

For someone so calm, confident and sure of herself, if she is innocent, I thought her reaction to the phone call (being told not to go in so close to the shift starting) was most unusual. It’s been mentioned a few times even with her colleagues how calm and confident she is. All knowing, diagnosing, quite over-confident (almost a bit ***-sure of herself) .. So why (if you’re innocent) would that phone call create the reaction it did? NJ asked about this and I found this discussion interesting too. LL had replied to his question, “who said it was dramatic” (or words to that) and NJ replied, you did about 20 seconds ago.. (or something similar), what she was saying didn’t really make a lot of sense.

Dramatic, meltdown, panicked.

And on the other hand is reportedly by her colleagues; cool, calm, composed, confident. Not forgetting she believes she has more skills than most of her colleagues it seems.

If guilty.
MOO

 

[ColourPurple]

Do you think, if guilty, we the public will find out a lot more about her personal life and what would amount to 'explanations' and motivations and her psyche?

Because her alleged victims were babies (with no voices or memory of the alleged attacks) and her alleged methods were carried out discreetly and in a hospital environment, if guilty, I don't think we'll hear the kind of stories we're used to hearing after a murder conviction. Maybe at most there'll be stories of pets or babies that she babysat, becoming ill in her care. Though I'd imagine with the latter the parents would have gone to the police by then instead of the press.

As for finding out explanations or motivations, the only person who would truly know would be LL , and if guilty, I doubt she'd ever even admit to anything, let alone explain why .

All JMO, if guilty.

 

[esther43]

Thanks for the info. I had ducked out of following this thread at one point. It seems to be the suggestion / assumption that the insulin must have been injected into the TPN bags as that's the only way it could have got in.

Would LL have had access to the storage fridge and the syringes required and also have been able to dispose of them?

I'm wondering this as I wonder if insulin comes in other forms like maybe oil based drops that you take in the mouth or something (eta - I am aware of how insulin is supposed to be administered).

She was definitely undergoing some kind of training related to working in ICU though. Assuming she's telling the truth of course lol

Did the prosecution not confirm that the ICU training occured on 2015?

 

[ColourPurple]

Did the prosecution not confirm that the ICU training occured on 2015?

Yes but she mentioned other intensive care training and a placement in the 2013 article. Don't think we'll ever find out more about that though so I'm beginning to wish I hadn't brought it up now lol

 

[esther43]

Yes but she mentioned other intensive care training and a placement in the 2013 article. Don't think we'll ever find out more about that though so I'm beginning to wish I hadn't brought it up now lol

Ahh sorry, didn't mean to labour an old point. Very strange how the two don't align.

 

[Dotta]

Yes but she mentioned other intensive care training and a placement in the 2013 article. Don't think we'll ever find out more about that though so I'm beginning to wish I hadn't brought it up now lol

LET it BE

One cannot really make heads or tails with all these!

And add "Students mentoring" training hehehe

 

[Parker Knoll]

I have been thinking about BM’s closing speech this afternoon and I think it’s going to be much longer than my first thoughts.
He has a LOT to cover.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Looking at this pic I can understand ppl couldn't believe she did what she is accused of.

Really.

She looks perfect, radiant, happy.

But then, she seems to be photogenic.

JMO

I first heard of this case at her final arrest and charging back in November 2020. The reason I took such interest in it was, essentially, due to the pictures of her on the various news sites. I don't mean simply because she was young and reasonably good looking (although that certainly helped) but because the pictures gave no suggestion that she was the type who might have perpetrated all the stuff she'd been charged with.

Yes, I know that the automatic retort is, you can never tell if someone is a killer simply from what they look like, but that's not what I mean. I don't mean her looks, specifically, I mean the nature of the photos as a whole and them as an insight to her life. They show a popular, outgoing, confident young woman with lots of friends and a busy social life - as, indeed, the prosecution have confirmed in court.

The most striking thing that I found is that these are clearly photos taken by other people who then most likely uploaded them to FB or other social media platforms. People tend not to associate themselves with people they don't like or have concerns about, in my experience, so their willingness t associate themselves with her speaks volumes, IMO.

She's clearly not some socially isolated, reclusive, wall-flower type weirdo who craves attention because no one is paying her any. If she's guilty and if she's doing it for attention it's because of far deeper and ingrained psychological issues, IMO.

This makes things all the more difficult to accept if she's actually guilty. It's honestly totally bizarre and weird. Not to mention really disturbing if he turns out to be guilty.

Obviously all my opinion and suchlike!

 

[marynnu]

I first heard of this case at her final arrest and charging back in November 2020. The reason I took such interest in it was, essentially, due to the pictures of her on the various news sites. I don't mean simply because she was young and reasonably good looking (although that certainly helped) but because the pictures gave no suggestion that she was the type who might have perpetrated all the stuff she'd been charged with.

Yes, I know that the automatic retort is, you can never tell if someone is a killer simply from what they look like, but that's not what I mean. I don't mean her looks, specifically, I mean the nature of the photos as a whole and them as an insight to her life. They show a popular, outgoing, confident young woman with lots of friends and a busy social life - as, indeed, the prosecution have confirmed in court.

The most striking thing that I found is that these are clearly photos taken by other people who then most likely uploaded them to FB or other social media platforms. People tend not to associate themselves with people they don't like or have concerns about, in my experience, so their willingness t associate themselves with her speaks volumes, IMO.

She's clearly not some socially isolated, reclusive, wall-flower type weirdo who craves attention because no one is paying her any. If she's guilty and if she's doing it for attention it's because of far deeper and ingrained psychological issues, IMO.

This makes things all the more difficult to accept if she's actually guilty. It's honestly totally bizarre and weird. Not to mention really disturbing if he turns out to be guilty.

Obviously all my opinion and suchlike!

That's the mistake we make. Assuming outgoing people are good and private people are 'weirdos' as you put it. How depressing.

 

[Dotta]

Dbm

 

[Marantz4250b]

That's the mistake we make. Assuming outgoing people are good and private people are 'weirdos' as you put it. How depressing.

With respect, that's not what I'm saying at all.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I have been thinking about BM’s closing speech this afternoon and I think it’s going to be much longer than my first thoughts.
He has a LOT to cover.

He does but.....how? If you see what I mean?

 

[Parker Knoll]

If he goes charge by charge that in itself will take some time, then he has to go through the experts testimony and where it differs from their version of events. God alone knows what he can say about the insulin cases but originally I thought it would be pretty quick but this is the last roll of their dice to create doubt.
Nothing has gone as planned in this case so I am probably far off course !
MOO

 

[CS2C]

It is forbidden for Defence to coach her - as far as I know.

She was on her own at this stand.

And if guilty...

I have a feeling that she took the stand solely for her parents - to show them she was fighting.
They were crying listening to her while Defence questioned her.

But I saw no fight in her, only resignation.

That is why, IMO, she gave curt, simple "No" and "I don't remember".

She even didn't try to justify things - handover sheets, for example.
"I collect paper" was laughable.

Far cry from her persuasive texts trying to cover her tracks while still working.

She seems to be reconciled with her fate.

But it is ONLY MY OPINION!

After all,
Destination Imagination is my "curse"

Am I right in saying Dotta that you didn't attend the trial is that right?
The way you have explained the above is actually in my opinion incredibly accurate.

Having witnessed first hand in court Lucy Letby under cross examination she did appear as though she was simply going through the motions and as you say almost an air of resignation.

I know if that was me on the witness stand and I was innocent I wouldn't have behaved in that way, not a hope in hell.
If you have spent years in prison, lost your house, friends, career and face the possibility of spending the rest of your life in prison for something you hadn't done you would be fighting tooth and nail and making sure your voice was finally heard.

I don't know if she was told or coached to keep things as short as possible, I have no idea but even if that was the case the replies often came across as disinterested, unwilling to expand in any way shape or form and with ZERO passion.

It felt like someone who although spoke very clearly and concisely for the vast majority of what I witnessed, it felt like I was watching someone going through the motions with an almost "I know best" attitude.

 

[HeatherErica]

Am I right in saying Dotta that you didn't attend the trial is that right?
The way you have explained the above is actually in my opinion incredibly accurate.

Having witnessed first hand in court Lucy Letby under cross examination she did appear as though she was simply going through the motions and as you say almost an air of resignation.

I know if that was me on the witness stand and I was innocent I wouldn't have behaved in that way, not a hope in hell.
If you have spent years in prison, lost your house, friends, career and face the possibility of spending the rest of your life in prison for something you hadn't done you would be fighting tooth and nail and making sure your voice was finally heard.

I don't know if she was told or coached to keep things as short as possible, I have no idea but even if that was the case the replies often came across as disinterested, unwilling to expand in any way shape or form and with ZERO passion.

It felt like someone who was partly, slightly cocky in places but the main theme was dejection and almost disinterest in fighting her own corner.

Longtime lurker chiming in to add nothing of note (sorry!), but just to say I appreciate the youtube vids you've done on this case. It's so interesting to hear about her demeanour, cadence, appearance etc in the courtroom itself, which is obviously not really something the press has touched on but something you can still infer in some places...

This case is so horrifying and yet intriguing, I can't remember anything like it. Surprised it hasn't had more news coverage but I guess that might change once a verdict is reached. It's been really interesting hearing all your thoughts and observations so far though.