UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #26
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Thank you for the updates Moll and @katydid23 .12:19pm
Mr Johnson says there were no problems until Caroline Oakley left the room for a break. He cites other cases when this happened of staff members who left and babies collapsed.
<rsbm>
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 21 - prosecution closing speech
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…www.chesterstandard.co.uk
I wish we got to hear what this list was, just as we got to hear the long list of collapses when parents had just left.
Hopefully it will be in the reports later!
2:05pm
The trial is now resuming after its lunch break.
Mr Johnson says he is turning to the case of Child G, on three counts of attempted murder.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
The trial is now resuming after its lunch break.
Mr Johnson says he is turning to the case of Child G, on three counts of attempted murder.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 21 - prosecution closing speech
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…
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I'm just heading into a meeting and can't post updates either. Courts just resuming.
2:05pm
The trial is now resuming after its lunch break.
Mr Johnson says he is turning to the case of Child G, on three counts of attempted murder.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
2:05pm
The trial is now resuming after its lunch break.
Mr Johnson says he is turning to the case of Child G, on three counts of attempted murder.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 21 - prosecution closing speech
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…
I can do the copy and paste for a little while.
2:08pm
Child G was the most premature of all the babies, with the lowest birth weight. He says Child G's mother's name is not the easiest to spell - the reason why he mentions that is clear to the jury.
Child G had the "grossest misfortune to meet Lucy Letby" when she was transferred to the Countess of Chester Hospital, Mr Johnson says. He refers to Child G's 100th day of life on September 7, 2015, when a banner was up, and a cake had been baked to mark the occasion.
He says on that day, she suffered a severe brain injury which has left her dependent on her parents.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
2:08pm
Child G was the most premature of all the babies, with the lowest birth weight. He says Child G's mother's name is not the easiest to spell - the reason why he mentions that is clear to the jury.
Child G had the "grossest misfortune to meet Lucy Letby" when she was transferred to the Countess of Chester Hospital, Mr Johnson says. He refers to Child G's 100th day of life on September 7, 2015, when a banner was up, and a cake had been baked to mark the occasion.
He says on that day, she suffered a severe brain injury which has left her dependent on her parents.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 21 - prosecution closing speech
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…
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Just popping on and don't have the dates to hand. But with Johnson mentioning Baby D' being allegedly attacked on Fathers day 2015, and LL's comments on Baby D's father's reaction (screaming) and the allegations of attacks happening on significant dates/occasions, I had a thought...
Fathers day 2016 was on 19th June... was LL off in Ibiza at that point? If guilty, could that have been why there was a flurry of alleged attacks as soon as she was back? Presumably if she'd not been at work for Fathers day, because of the Ibiza holiday, this would be her first opportunity after Fathers day to "mark the occasion" or to recreate the same situation and relive the same kind of reaction from a grieving father around Father's day again
JMO
Fathers day 2016 was on 19th June... was LL off in Ibiza at that point? If guilty, could that have been why there was a flurry of alleged attacks as soon as she was back? Presumably if she'd not been at work for Fathers day, because of the Ibiza holiday, this would be her first opportunity after Fathers day to "mark the occasion" or to recreate the same situation and relive the same kind of reaction from a grieving father around Father's day again
JMO
2:15pm
Mr Johnson says all the experts agree Child G was in a "very satisfactory position" prior to her collapse. He says "odd coincidences to happen in life - but do you believe in coincidences in this?"
Mr Johnson says Letby knew Child G's 100th day, and the premature baby's due date.
Mr Johnson says Dr Evans had described Child G's vomit on September 7 was "extraordinary" and nurses had described the extent of the vomit was something they had never seen before.
He says there are two choices - that Child G was sabotaged by being overfed, or having tolerated escalating amounts of milk, she then vomited with unprecedented force due to an infection which no staff had ever seen present itself before or since.
"Some people say there is a first time for everything" Mr Johnson says, but adds this is "no naturally occurring event" and has been seen in several other babies' cases including Child C, Child J, Child K and Child N.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
Mr Johnson says all the experts agree Child G was in a "very satisfactory position" prior to her collapse. He says "odd coincidences to happen in life - but do you believe in coincidences in this?"
Mr Johnson says Letby knew Child G's 100th day, and the premature baby's due date.
Mr Johnson says Dr Evans had described Child G's vomit on September 7 was "extraordinary" and nurses had described the extent of the vomit was something they had never seen before.
He says there are two choices - that Child G was sabotaged by being overfed, or having tolerated escalating amounts of milk, she then vomited with unprecedented force due to an infection which no staff had ever seen present itself before or since.
"Some people say there is a first time for everything" Mr Johnson says, but adds this is "no naturally occurring event" and has been seen in several other babies' cases including Child C, Child J, Child K and Child N.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 21 - prosecution closing speech
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…
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11:29am
Text messages between Letby and a colleague were exchanged on June 30, 2015:
Colleague: "Yeah. There's something odd about that night and the other 3 that went so suddenly."
LL: "What do you mean?
"Odd that we lost 3 and in different circumstances?"
C: I dunno. Were they that different?
C: Ignore me. I'm speculating
LL: Well Baby C was tiny, obviously compromised in utero. Baby D septic. It's Baby A I can't get my head around
C: Was she definitely septic. Did the PM confirm?
LL: I don't think the full PM is back yet. Debrief is next week but Im away.
C: When's Baby A's? They were talking of doing a joint one for all 3 as all close together and similar in being full arrests in babies that were essentially stable. Dunno if they are doing tho.
LL: Ah not sure but Baby C's is Thursday and Baby D next week
LL: No mention of Baby A"
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 21 - prosecution closing speech
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…
BBM - I don’t remember reading about this part of the text message exchange, it’s interesting because LL’s colleague questions her about her claim of baby D being septic. Then her colleague again says how the collapses were similar and that the babies were ‘essentially stable’, and in her reply LL completely brushes this off and just says when the debriefs will be.
It’s odd IMO completely disregarding her colleagues concerns about 3 sudden, unexplainable baby deaths. Firstly minimising the similarities, then going on to give explanations for the collapses, which as colleague points out can’t possibly be known because the post mortem isn’t back yet, and then seemingly ignoring the part where her colleague seems to infer that others were talking about how similar the deaths were.
MOO
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Interesting that after the first 4 collapses and the text exchange with LL’s colleague where LL learned that other colleagues were talking about how similar the sudden unexpected unexplainable deaths were. There was a month long gap with no collapses until baby E & F in August. If guilty, could this gap have been intentional after realising 3 deaths in such quick succession would arouse suspicion?
After E & F there was another month long gap before G (who survived the attack), then a few weeks later the attack on child H who also survived. Baby I who had repeated attempts and died in mid October, after this baby J end of November. Then a gap until baby K mid February 2016 when dr J discovered LL standing watching baby K desaturate. After this there was another gap until April with baby L & M and then another gap until baby N in June. Coincidentally around the time of the murder of child N is when doc choc came on the scene.
IMO if guilty, and if getting attention from doc choc became the goal, she became out of control around this time IMO. In June while LL and doc choc were texting there was baby N, O, P and Q all in one month. Until this point after the initial first 4 attacks, there appeared to be a gap between attacks so as not to draw suspicion if guilty. The initial 4 in one month drew attention and suspicion, if guilty I think she consciously made sure to leave a gap and not harm more than 2 in one month. But the appearance and attention of doc choc, if guilty, could have caused her to throw caution to the wind and again go for 4 in one month. As NJ said if guilty I think she was out of control at this point and believed she was untouchable and above suspicion.
Only if guilty.
MOO
After E & F there was another month long gap before G (who survived the attack), then a few weeks later the attack on child H who also survived. Baby I who had repeated attempts and died in mid October, after this baby J end of November. Then a gap until baby K mid February 2016 when dr J discovered LL standing watching baby K desaturate. After this there was another gap until April with baby L & M and then another gap until baby N in June. Coincidentally around the time of the murder of child N is when doc choc came on the scene.
IMO if guilty, and if getting attention from doc choc became the goal, she became out of control around this time IMO. In June while LL and doc choc were texting there was baby N, O, P and Q all in one month. Until this point after the initial first 4 attacks, there appeared to be a gap between attacks so as not to draw suspicion if guilty. The initial 4 in one month drew attention and suspicion, if guilty I think she consciously made sure to leave a gap and not harm more than 2 in one month. But the appearance and attention of doc choc, if guilty, could have caused her to throw caution to the wind and again go for 4 in one month. As NJ said if guilty I think she was out of control at this point and believed she was untouchable and above suspicion.
Only if guilty.
MOO
2:32pm
Mr Johnson says nursing notes showed a 'normal baby, feeding properly' in the hours before Child G's vomit on September 7. At 8pm on September 6, nursing colleagues said Child G was stable and well.
A staffing rota for the night is shown for September 6-7 - "a quiet night", and Child G received a full feed from a bottle at 11pm and was "thriving". Mr Johnson says "little babies don't take full feeds from bottles unless they are happy little babies."
He says Letby has "massaged the times", as she had done in several other cases. Mr Johnson says the prosecution suggest the vomit was at 2.30am, not 2.15am.
Nursing colleague Ailsa Simpson initially said she was with Letby when Child G projectile vomited at 2.15am, and if that was true, Letby could not have been the cause of it. In a subsequent interview, she said she didn't know where the other nurses were.
Mr Johnson says Letby's nursing note on September 7 includes: Care given from 0200 to present. [Child G] had large projectile milky vomit at 0215.'
Mr Johnson says it's an interesting line that Letby had given care from 2am. He says this note is written six-and-a-half hours later, and the jury should take that with care, especially with Letby, as she "habitually misrecorded" information.
Mr Johnson says Child G wouldn't have tolerated a 45ml milk feed under gravity if the stomach was already containing undigested milk.
He says Ailsa Simpson's original account does not correspond with the neonatal review, as Ailsa Simpson fed a different child in room 1 at 2.20am [Child G being in room 2]. That child was "demanding food", Mr Johnson says, and that takes time.
Medication was co-signed for Child G at 1.42am by Ailsa Simpson, and another child at 2.13am. Mr Johnson says all this material shows she was busy at this time, and "cannot be accurate" with the 2.15am timing of the event.
Dr Alison Ventress recorded Child G was 'called to r/v [Child G] urgently at 2.35am...[Child G] had very large projectile vomit (reaching chair next to cot and canopy)'.
Mr Johnson says Dr Ventress was called urgently as Child G suffered a catastrophic brain inury, and the doctor arrived within minutes as they would not wait around.
Mr Johnson says Ailsa Simpson was distracted in room 1, her colleague had gone on a break, and that gave Letby "the perfect time" to sabotage Child G, and misrepesent it in the notes.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
Mr Johnson says nursing notes showed a 'normal baby, feeding properly' in the hours before Child G's vomit on September 7. At 8pm on September 6, nursing colleagues said Child G was stable and well.
A staffing rota for the night is shown for September 6-7 - "a quiet night", and Child G received a full feed from a bottle at 11pm and was "thriving". Mr Johnson says "little babies don't take full feeds from bottles unless they are happy little babies."
He says Letby has "massaged the times", as she had done in several other cases. Mr Johnson says the prosecution suggest the vomit was at 2.30am, not 2.15am.
Nursing colleague Ailsa Simpson initially said she was with Letby when Child G projectile vomited at 2.15am, and if that was true, Letby could not have been the cause of it. In a subsequent interview, she said she didn't know where the other nurses were.
Mr Johnson says Letby's nursing note on September 7 includes: Care given from 0200 to present. [Child G] had large projectile milky vomit at 0215.'
Mr Johnson says it's an interesting line that Letby had given care from 2am. He says this note is written six-and-a-half hours later, and the jury should take that with care, especially with Letby, as she "habitually misrecorded" information.
Mr Johnson says Child G wouldn't have tolerated a 45ml milk feed under gravity if the stomach was already containing undigested milk.
He says Ailsa Simpson's original account does not correspond with the neonatal review, as Ailsa Simpson fed a different child in room 1 at 2.20am [Child G being in room 2]. That child was "demanding food", Mr Johnson says, and that takes time.
Medication was co-signed for Child G at 1.42am by Ailsa Simpson, and another child at 2.13am. Mr Johnson says all this material shows she was busy at this time, and "cannot be accurate" with the 2.15am timing of the event.
Dr Alison Ventress recorded Child G was 'called to r/v [Child G] urgently at 2.35am...[Child G] had very large projectile vomit (reaching chair next to cot and canopy)'.
Mr Johnson says Dr Ventress was called urgently as Child G suffered a catastrophic brain inury, and the doctor arrived within minutes as they would not wait around.
Mr Johnson says Ailsa Simpson was distracted in room 1, her colleague had gone on a break, and that gave Letby "the perfect time" to sabotage Child G, and misrepesent it in the notes.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 21 - prosecution closing speech
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…
2:40pm
Mr Johnson says the longer the gap between the feed and vomit, the less likely the feed would be the reason for the vomit.
Dr Ventress said Child G's abdomen appeared "purple and distended" upon her return to see Child G after the vomit.
A "large watery stool passed", after which Child G's abdomen was "slightly better". Mr Johnson says this was not the situation earlier, when she had taken on a feed by a nursing colleague.
Mr Johnson says Child G was force-fed milk and air, injecting by using the plunger in the syringe.
He says Letby "took advantage" of taking on Child G's care. Dr Ventress was later called out of theatre to intubate Child G, and noted blood-stained secretions coming from the vocal cords.
Dr Stephen Brearey, asked about Child G's deteriorations on the ventilator, said: "I can't explain that - it's unusual for babies to desaturate on ventilators...the fact that Dr Ventress was getting chest movement [from Child G] was perplexing, and I cannot think of a natural cause of why that would happen."
Mr Johnson say the truth was it was "an unnatural process" by Letby.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
Mr Johnson says the longer the gap between the feed and vomit, the less likely the feed would be the reason for the vomit.
Dr Ventress said Child G's abdomen appeared "purple and distended" upon her return to see Child G after the vomit.
A "large watery stool passed", after which Child G's abdomen was "slightly better". Mr Johnson says this was not the situation earlier, when she had taken on a feed by a nursing colleague.
Mr Johnson says Child G was force-fed milk and air, injecting by using the plunger in the syringe.
He says Letby "took advantage" of taking on Child G's care. Dr Ventress was later called out of theatre to intubate Child G, and noted blood-stained secretions coming from the vocal cords.
Dr Stephen Brearey, asked about Child G's deteriorations on the ventilator, said: "I can't explain that - it's unusual for babies to desaturate on ventilators...the fact that Dr Ventress was getting chest movement [from Child G] was perplexing, and I cannot think of a natural cause of why that would happen."
Mr Johnson say the truth was it was "an unnatural process" by Letby.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 21 - prosecution closing speech
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…
2:42pm
Mr Johnson asks what would cause Child G's throat to bleed, as similar to the cases of child E, Child N, Child O and Child H. He says it was sabotage by Letby.
NJ: "It is a signature of many of her attacks on these babies".
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
Mr Johnson asks what would cause Child G's throat to bleed, as similar to the cases of child E, Child N, Child O and Child H. He says it was sabotage by Letby.
NJ: "It is a signature of many of her attacks on these babies".
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 21 - prosecution closing speech
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…
2:51pm
After 6am on September 7, 100ml of air/fluid was aspirated from Child G. Mr Johnson says the only source of that was from Lucy Letby, who had caused the baby a "devastating brain injury".
After that, Child G's saturation levels improved and she did not have issues with her stomach. Mr Johnson says what was vomited and aspirated was nothing to do with infection.
Mr Johnson says Dr Sandie Bohin had been "very stable" prior to the collapse. The pH reading showed Child G's stomach was empty and discounted the possibility of there being undigested milk.
If there had been an infection, there would have been 'subtle markers' present in observations. She rejected the suggestion by Letby in interview that Child G swallowed air when vomiting.
Dr Bohin said Child G was "extraordinarily premature" and an observation of 'blood-stained secretions was down to the use of a tube on June 14, 2015.
Letby, in interview, remembered her colleague was on a break and would not have left Child G alone. Letby suggested the vomit "had not left the cot". Mr Johnson says this is at odds with agreed evidence and and a note made at the time by Dr Ventress.
Letby said she had "seen [Child G] vomiting."
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
After 6am on September 7, 100ml of air/fluid was aspirated from Child G. Mr Johnson says the only source of that was from Lucy Letby, who had caused the baby a "devastating brain injury".
After that, Child G's saturation levels improved and she did not have issues with her stomach. Mr Johnson says what was vomited and aspirated was nothing to do with infection.
Mr Johnson says Dr Sandie Bohin had been "very stable" prior to the collapse. The pH reading showed Child G's stomach was empty and discounted the possibility of there being undigested milk.
If there had been an infection, there would have been 'subtle markers' present in observations. She rejected the suggestion by Letby in interview that Child G swallowed air when vomiting.
Dr Bohin said Child G was "extraordinarily premature" and an observation of 'blood-stained secretions was down to the use of a tube on June 14, 2015.
Letby, in interview, remembered her colleague was on a break and would not have left Child G alone. Letby suggested the vomit "had not left the cot". Mr Johnson says this is at odds with agreed evidence and and a note made at the time by Dr Ventress.
Letby said she had "seen [Child G] vomiting."
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 21 - prosecution closing speech
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…
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Number of days between charges. Notice the gap after each attempt on twins is generally followed by a larger gap after the initial 4 charges from June 2015. Except for right at the end. Also notice how the after baby I the gaps get bigger. I wonder if guilty, if the amount of attempts made on baby I aswell as multiple attempts on baby G & H too was a big risk and could have aroused suspicion which caused her if guilty to leave a bigger gap between attacks? Until the appearance of doc choc when things suddenly sped up again and there were 4 attacks in the space of 10 days once he came on the scene.
All JMO
Baby A 8th June 2015
Baby B (attempt) 2 days
Baby C 4 days
Baby D 8 days
Baby E 43 days
Baby F (attempt) 1 day
Baby G (attempt) 33 days
Baby G (attempt) 14 days
Baby H (attempt) 5 days
Baby H (attempt)1 day
Baby I (attempt) 3 days
Baby I (attempt) 13 days
Baby I (attempt) 1 day
Baby I 7 days
Baby J (attempt) 35 days
Baby K (attempt) 82 days
Baby L (attempt) 38 days
Baby M (attempt) 0 days
Baby N (attempt) 48 days
Baby N (2 x attempt) 12 days
Baby O 8 days
Baby P 1 day
Baby Q 1 day
This is the gap in days between each charge. Hope I’ve counted right!
All JMO
Baby A 8th June 2015
Baby B (attempt) 2 days
Baby C 4 days
Baby D 8 days
Baby E 43 days
Baby F (attempt) 1 day
Baby G (attempt) 33 days
Baby G (attempt) 14 days
Baby H (attempt) 5 days
Baby H (attempt)1 day
Baby I (attempt) 3 days
Baby I (attempt) 13 days
Baby I (attempt) 1 day
Baby I 7 days
Baby J (attempt) 35 days
Baby K (attempt) 82 days
Baby L (attempt) 38 days
Baby M (attempt) 0 days
Baby N (attempt) 48 days
Baby N (2 x attempt) 12 days
Baby O 8 days
Baby P 1 day
Baby Q 1 day
This is the gap in days between each charge. Hope I’ve counted right!
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2:54pm
Upon Child G's return to the Countess of Chester Hospital [having been transferred to Arrowe Park Hospital for several days], she "had the misfortune", Mr Johnson says, to be in Letby's care on September 21, her due date.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
Upon Child G's return to the Countess of Chester Hospital [having been transferred to Arrowe Park Hospital for several days], she "had the misfortune", Mr Johnson says, to be in Letby's care on September 21, her due date.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 21 - prosecution closing speech
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…
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The thing is if she's guilty and if (and it's big IF) she's also carried out other attacks that she hasn't been charged with then this list may not be at all relevant in showing anything at all.
JMO and MOO!
3:01pm
On September 21, Letby was designated nurse for Child G and two other babies in room 4.
Letby said in a nursing note that at 10.15am, Child G 'produced two large projectile milky vomits...'
Mr Johnson says Child G had been sabotaged again by Letby, shortly after recording 'entirely normal' observations.
Child G's abdomen was noted to be 'more distended than usual'.
Mr Johnson says Letby "misrepresented" what the situation was when she texted a nursing colleague that night, saying Child G 'looked rubbish when I took over this morning' and she had inherited a problem, which Mr Johnson says "was untrue".
Mr Johnson says if Child G did look so bad, she would have referred her to a doctor first before feeding.
"It's a lie to divert the suspicion," Mr Johnson adds.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
On September 21, Letby was designated nurse for Child G and two other babies in room 4.
Letby said in a nursing note that at 10.15am, Child G 'produced two large projectile milky vomits...'
Mr Johnson says Child G had been sabotaged again by Letby, shortly after recording 'entirely normal' observations.
Child G's abdomen was noted to be 'more distended than usual'.
Mr Johnson says Letby "misrepresented" what the situation was when she texted a nursing colleague that night, saying Child G 'looked rubbish when I took over this morning' and she had inherited a problem, which Mr Johnson says "was untrue".
Mr Johnson says if Child G did look so bad, she would have referred her to a doctor first before feeding.
"It's a lie to divert the suspicion," Mr Johnson adds.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 21 - prosecution closing speech
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…
3:06pm
Letby was involved in a text message conversation for the 'looked rubbish...this morning'.
Letby added : 'I personally felt it was a big jump considering how sick she was just a week ago. Being in 4 is bad enough & then having NN [nursery nurses] that just don't always know...
"Mum said she hasn't been herself for a couple of days"
Mr Johnson says it fits Letby's narrative that nursery nurses are 'bad'.
He says the "false narrative" "could not be clearer" as Letby also recorded Child G's poor condition in nursing notes written retrospectively.
www.chesterstandard.co.uk
Letby was involved in a text message conversation for the 'looked rubbish...this morning'.
Letby added : 'I personally felt it was a big jump considering how sick she was just a week ago. Being in 4 is bad enough & then having NN [nursery nurses] that just don't always know...
"Mum said she hasn't been herself for a couple of days"
Mr Johnson says it fits Letby's narrative that nursery nurses are 'bad'.
He says the "false narrative" "could not be clearer" as Letby also recorded Child G's poor condition in nursing notes written retrospectively.
Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 21 - prosecution closing speech
The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…
Thank you. That is really useful.
Do we also have overall data for the gestational age of each babe and whether they were a multiple or not ?- Status
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