UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #27

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I was thinking back to when I was there for her last day of cross examination and all the blatant lies she told regarding the pyjamas, her social life etc. It makes me wonder why someone who is supposedly innocent would feel a need to lie about ANYTHING whatsoever. Also the way her demeanour didn’t change one little bit despite having to admit she lied. The only reply to “Why have you lied to this jury” was “I don’t know”

The truth is mutable to certain types of personality and they don't even know they're lying themselves because they pathalogically fit reality to suit their narratives, for themselves as much as to the outside world. Not saying she's one of them sorts but it can definitely happen.

 

[SleepyJoe]

WAIT A MINUTE----this statement from BM seems disingenuous:

That's the perfect word to describe a lot of BM's assertions in his closing - disingenuous. JMO.

 

[Tortoise]

The judge is going to have to explain the insulin levels at the very least I would have thought. It's not a difference of opinion. Either the levels for Baby L were higher than for Baby F and so high the test couldn't record any higher...or they weren't. The jurors need to know which it is.

I would have so many questions at this point were I a juror. Namely on what basis is Myers disagreeing with the medical experts. He says they're wrong/it's not possible... based on what?

I'm assuming that Johnson is relying on the jurors reacting in a similar way to many here. With each juror noticing which of Myers' claims are at odds with the explanations they've heard from witnesses (including medical experts) and which questions Myers is still asking despite the fact they have already been answered during cross examination. Johnson may well be hoping that once the jurors get to discuss the case and compare notes, there will be so many examples that it will cast doubt on all of Myers' claims.

JMO

NJ brought this to the jury's attention -

10:54am

Mr Johnson refers to the 'gang of four conspiracy theory'.
He says in Letby's defence statement, there is a suggestion that the collapses and deaths were a product of staff shortages, or mistakes, or insufficiently qualified staff.
Mr Johnson says Letby said that was a "medical opinion", but the jury have not had any 'medical opinion' to back that up.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, June 19 - closing speeches

 

[Diddly1]

I caught up with all the proceedings from yesterday, to me they seemed to be gibberish. By the time I eventually came to the end it was such a blessed relief. All I can assume is that MyersKC managed to achieve the reputation of a top notch barrister while also achieving consultant paediatric doctor and forensic pathologist along the way. Wow to that man!
Or I am still under the anaesthetic in which case this has just been a horrible dream

 

[Blondiexoxo]

It wouldn't surprise me if he's taken to wearing a stethoscope around his neck.

I imagine him waking up each morning this week thinking ‘what will I be today? A doctor, a neonatologist, a hypoglycaemia or air embolism expert?’

I’ve hardly followed this week ever since he tried to discredit baby E’s mum, that made me so angry I needed a break. But each time I’ve glanced back to catch up it ruffles my feathers all over again! JMO but he really didn’t need 5 days for this. He’s completely missed the point by looking at each case individually, when the jury will be looking at the totality of the evidence, looking for similarities and links between each case.

Roll on the judge’s summing up so he can clarify what the jury can and cannot consider evidence!

MOO

 

[Sundial]

All I can say is thank the stars it’s Friday. A long week for everyone of this circus; it’s gone on way too long. I feel the parents, their families and jury will be relieved. Let’s hope this is finally over with soon, justice will be served (whatever that may be) and everyone gets to have some much needed respite.

 

[marynnu]

Can anyone explain this to me please? Unless Dan has reported wrongly (always possible, obviously), these timings do not fit.

Mr. Myers notes the door swipe data which shows Ms Letby only arrived at 14:39 on the unit. He drills deeper into the clinical notes which show Child O collapsed at 14:40 and then Ms Letby, on instruction from a doctor, began an infusion in response at 14:40 ie after the event

 

[ColourPurple]

Can anyone explain this to me please? Unless Dan has reported wrongly (always possible, obviously), these timings do not fit.

Mr. Myers notes the door swipe data which shows Ms Letby only arrived at 14:39 on the unit. He drills deeper into the clinical notes which show Child O collapsed at 14:40 and then Ms Letby, on instruction from a doctor, began an infusion in response at 14:40 ie after the event

I think this is the one where we don't know how long she'd been away from the unit before she swiped in at 2.39, as her shift started much earlier and it doesn't record swipe outs. There was another example where she'd only been gone minutes before swiping back in and IIRC I think they only knew on that occasion that shed only been gone a short time as she'd gone to the labour ward and had been recorded swiping in there.

 

[marynnu]

I think this is the one where we don't know how long she'd been away from the unit before she swiped in at 2.39, as her shift started much earlier and it doesn't record swipe outs. There was another example where she'd only been gone minutes before swiping back in and IIRC I think they only knew on that occasion that shed only been gone a short time as she'd gone to the labour ward and had been recorded swiping in there.

Thanks. What I don't understand is the time the infusion was started - by LL one minute after the collapse and 2 minutes after swiping in, both of which are impossible.

 

[ColourPurple]

NJ brought this to the jury's attention -

10:54am

Mr Johnson refers to the 'gang of four conspiracy theory'.
He says in Letby's defence statement, there is a suggestion that the collapses and deaths were a product of staff shortages, or mistakes, or insufficiently qualified staff.
Mr Johnson says Letby said that was a "medical opinion", but the jury have not had any 'medical opinion' to back that up.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, June 19 - closing speeches

It's whether the jury will remember one throwaway comment from Johnson about the defence having no medical opinion to back up their theories.

I'm sure if Johnson had realised just how many unsubstantiated claims Myers was going to make he'd have emphasised the fact that the defence had no medical experts, a lot more.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I imagine him waking up each morning this week thinking ‘what will I be today? A doctor, a neonatologist, a hypoglycaemia or air embolism expert?’

I’ve hardly followed this week ever since he tried to discredit baby E’s mum, that made me so angry I needed a break. But each time I’ve glanced back to catch up it ruffles my feathers all over again! JMO but he really didn’t need 5 days for this. He’s completely missed the point by looking at each case individually, when the jury will be looking at the totality of the evidence, looking for similarities and links between each case.

Roll on the judge’s summing up so he can clarify what the jury can and cannot consider evidence!

MOO

He's certainly immersing himself in his roles - what do they call it 'method acting'?

 

[SleepyJoe]

All I can assume is that MyersKC managed to achieve the reputation of a top notch barrister while also achieving consultant paediatric doctor and forensic pathologist along the way. Wow to that man!

And paediatric radiologist! He's also one of those LOL!

 

[ColourPurple]

Thanks. What I don't understand is the time the infusion was started - by LL one minute after the collapse and 2 minutes after swiping in, both of which are impossible.

So within a minute of LL entering the ward the baby collapses, gets seen by a doctor who recommends an infusion and the infusion is started. It's an action packed minute isn't it.

 

[Moll]

I have probably missed something but I can't find the Chester Standard reporting today - is there any yet?

 

[Tortoise]

Thanks. What I don't understand is the time the infusion was started - by LL one minute after the collapse and 2 minutes after swiping in, both of which are impossible.

Not sure if this helps -

11:41am

Letby is asked about messages exchanged between her and a doctor when, at 2.30pm, she was recorded as taking observations for Child O.
The messages were sent at 2.20pm and 2.23pm.
Child O collapsed shortly after 2.40pm. In her defence statement, she said the doctor colleague was on the unit at the time.
Swipe data shows Letby has arrived on the neonatal unit from the labour ward at 2.39pm.
Letby says she cannot say, definitively, where she was at that time. She denies 'nipping out' of the neonatal unit to make it look like she was elsewhere at the time Child O collapsed.

11:44am

The doctor's note is shown to the court: 'Called to see [Child O] at ~1440 desaturation, bradycardia and mottled...'
Letby says she believes she called the doctor to the nursery room. She denies it was to get personal attention; Letby says it was because he was there to assist Child O.

12:09pm

The trial is resuming after a short break.
Letby says a 20ml saline bolus was given to Child O in response to a poor blood gas record. She says there was a delay as there was an issue with getting the line for Child O. She says she believes the bolus, which has 'time started: 1440', was in response to Child O's collapse.
A doctor's note recorded for the '~1440' collapse: '10ml/kg 0.9% sodium chloride bolus already given.'
Letby agrees the two desaturations for Child O that day were "profound" ones.
Letby's note: 'Approx 1440 [Child O] had a profound desaturation to 30s followed by bradycardia. Mottled++ and abdomen red and distended. Transferred to nursery 1 and Neopuff ventilation commenced. Perfusion poor'
Letby, when questioned, says babies would "frequently desaturate", to this level, and this happened prior to June 2015, and "often".

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 8 - cross-examination continues

 

[Tortoise]

I have probably missed something but I can't find the Chester Standard reporting today - is there any yet?

He's not there today. He always writes in his last update of the day when he's going to be there the following day.

 

[marynnu]

Not sure if this helps -

11:41am

Letby is asked about messages exchanged between her and a doctor when, at 2.30pm, she was recorded as taking observations for Child O.
The messages were sent at 2.20pm and 2.23pm.
Child O collapsed shortly after 2.40pm. In her defence statement, she said the doctor colleague was on the unit at the time.
Swipe data shows Letby has arrived on the neonatal unit from the labour ward at 2.39pm.
Letby says she cannot say, definitively, where she was at that time. She denies 'nipping out' of the neonatal unit to make it look like she was elsewhere at the time Child O collapsed.

11:44am

The doctor's note is shown to the court: 'Called to see [Child O] at ~1440 desaturation, bradycardia and mottled...'
Letby says she believes she called the doctor to the nursery room. She denies it was to get personal attention; Letby says it was because he was there to assist Child O.

12:09pm

The trial is resuming after a short break.
Letby says a 20ml saline bolus was given to Child O in response to a poor blood gas record. She says there was a delay as there was an issue with getting the line for Child O. She says she believes the bolus, which has 'time started: 1440', was in response to Child O's collapse.
A doctor's note recorded for the '~1440' collapse: '10ml/kg 0.9% sodium chloride bolus already given.'
Letby agrees the two desaturations for Child O that day were "profound" ones.
Letby's note: 'Approx 1440 [Child O] had a profound desaturation to 30s followed by bradycardia. Mottled++ and abdomen red and distended. Transferred to nursery 1 and Neopuff ventilation commenced. Perfusion poor'
Letby, when questioned, says babies would "frequently desaturate", to this level, and this happened prior to June 2015, and "often".

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 8 - cross-examination continues

Thanks Tortoise. I need to take my time with this one!!

 

[Moll]

He's not there today. He always writes in his last update of the day when he's going to be there the following day.

Thanks! Is Dan Donoghue there? I'm not on Twitter. Not that I intend to follow it blow by tedious blow today but just hoped to check when Myers winds up his case.

 

[ColourPurple]

Not sure if this helps -

11:41am

Letby is asked about messages exchanged between her and a doctor when, at 2.30pm, she was recorded as taking observations for Child O.
The messages were sent at 2.20pm and 2.23pm.
Child O collapsed shortly after 2.40pm. In her defence statement, she said the doctor colleague was on the unit at the time.
Swipe data shows Letby has arrived on the neonatal unit from the labour ward at 2.39pm.
Letby says she cannot say, definitively, where she was at that time. She denies 'nipping out' of the neonatal unit to make it look like she was elsewhere at the time Child O collapsed.

11:44am

The doctor's note is shown to the court: 'Called to see [Child O] at ~1440 desaturation, bradycardia and mottled...'
Letby says she believes she called the doctor to the nursery room. She denies it was to get personal attention; Letby says it was because he was there to assist Child O.

12:09pm

The trial is resuming after a short break.
Letby says a 20ml saline bolus was given to Child O in response to a poor blood gas record. She says there was a delay as there was an issue with getting the line for Child O. She says she believes the bolus, which has 'time started: 1440', was in response to Child O's collapse.
A doctor's note recorded for the '~1440' collapse: '10ml/kg 0.9% sodium chloride bolus already given.'
Letby agrees the two desaturations for Child O that day were "profound" ones.
Letby's note: 'Approx 1440 [Child O] had a profound desaturation to 30s followed by bradycardia. Mottled++ and abdomen red and distended. Transferred to nursery 1 and Neopuff ventilation commenced. Perfusion poor'
Letby, when questioned, says babies would "frequently desaturate", to this level, and this happened prior to June 2015, and "often".

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 8 - cross-examination continues

Ah good find, so if she was doing baby O's observations at 2.30 , at most she had been gone 9 minutes before she swiped back in.

 

[Tortoise]

Thanks. What I don't understand is the time the infusion was started - by LL one minute after the collapse and 2 minutes after swiping in, both of which are impossible.

There was also this in her messaging later that evening - I don't know how relevant it is, she also did something with one of the handover sheets, said she took it home to remember to write up the drugs the next day I believe, but I'm not sure if it was related to this.

12:35pm

Messages are shown between Letby and the doctor from 9.14pm on June 23:
Doctor: 'Your notes must have taken a long time - Had you documented anything from this morning?'
LL: 'Only a little. Had the other 2 to write on as well and sorting out the ffp etc. Left signing for drugs until tomorrow'
A nurse also messaged Letby: '*advertiser censored**in hell, what happened?'
LL: 'Can't Think straight so took a while'

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 8 - cross-examination continues