UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #27

[May72031]

If BM is so adamant the experts the prosecution brought forward were "not neutral", then why didn't he find some medical experts who were neutral?

We know why. He couldn't find any. IMHO.

 

[Diddly1]

The Gang of Four or has it been four hundred, have been well and truly used to mop up all of LL’s sewage. But alas the more MyersKC has smeared LL’s sewage about, up, down, here, there and everywhere around the more the smell began to stink and stink and stink.
“oh where is the plumber?”

 

[marynnu]

The Gang of Four or has it been four hundred, have been well and truly used to mop up all of LL’s sewage. But alas the more MyersKC has smeared LL’s sewage about, up, down, here, there and everywhere around the more the smell began to stink and stink and stink.
“oh where is the plumber?”

I'm starting Italian in September, inspired by Lorenzo.

 

[Dotta]

“oh where is the plumber?”

If you want an appointment with him, call his secretary first!

 

[Dotta]

I'm starting Italian in September, inspired by Lorenzo.

Buona idea!

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Actually I should think that going back to their normal jobs will seem like a "doddle" after this, and would be a welcome relief! Plus, seriously, it would give them something else to think about.

True! Although maybe a little holiday would be in order for everyone.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Just thinking of how many parents went through the fear of having a premature baby, the relief of seeing their baby stable or even joy when the baby was thriving, and then suddenly losing their baby...

IMO it seems like it went on too long without being looked into enough. (But I don't work in the medical field.)

 

[Dcflag]

I really feel for Dr Evans and Dr Jayaram, they have had BM try and discredit every single word they’ve said for the last week, not only that but trash their reputations, their honesty, their motives and they aren’t the ones on trial here.

LL not being there for some collapses doesn’t say as much to me as the fact that once she was removed from the unit the unusual collapses stopped. And people will say ‘oh the unit was downgraded so they didn’t have poorly babies anymore’ that isn’t a very valid point IMO when you look at how these babies were doing well, many would have been in the unit even after it was downgraded as there were 33 weekers, there were babies who yes had been born prematurely but were celebrating their 100 day milestone meaning they were over 3 months old, there were babies who were literally days away from being allowed home, I personally don’t think the downgrading of the unit and the unexplained collapses stopping are in any way related IMO because in some cases the babies would have been in COCH NNU regardless of what level it was classed.

MOO

If I’m remembering correctly, for these incidents she was still on the ward, so it’s not outside of the realms of possibility she was there at the time. It just means the prosecution couldn’t physically place her in any specific place I suppose. Which is worlds away from Myers implication that she just wasn’t there at all.

 

[notsure]

Does anyone remember when the jury are supposed to retire to consider their verdict? And how long is the judge's summing up likely to be?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Does anyone remember when the jury are supposed to retire to consider their verdict? And how long is the judge's summing up likely to be?

I believe the 3rd July was mentioned but can't prove it.

 

[CS2C]

Does anyone remember when the jury are supposed to retire to consider their verdict? And how long is the judge's summing up likely to be?

I believe it is the week of July 10th for the Jury

 

[Dotta]

So,
If I understand correctly, the Judge will sum up all evidence concerning EVERY charge, right?
Or wrong?

 

[Tortoise]

So,
If I understand correctly, the Judge will sum up all evidence concerning EVERY charge, right?
Or wrong?

Yes, every charge.

He will probably -

- refresh them on his legal directions,
- tell the story probably in date order, and go through:

- the evidence for each baby in terms of the clinical picture/background and colleagues' and parents' evidence,
- her nursing records and any that are at issue,
- whatever else happened on or close to that date, such as text messages she sent before/after the shift, her Datix reports,
- what all the experts said, bringing out the important issues for the jury to determine about matters in disagreement,
- what she said in her successive police interviews,
- what paperwork police found in her house,
- what notes she'd written in her diaries,
- what Facebook searches she'd made,
- anything going on in her life at the time such as moving/holidays/workplace disputes/friendships,
- what she said in her defence statement, and anything extra, different, or salient she said in court,
- how the jury are to treat lies that have been admitted to,
- how they are the deciders of the facts in relation to issues in disagreement between her and any witness's evidence, and
- what must be proven in relation to each charge.

JMO

 

[nyvictoria]

In the US, the judge doesn’t do a summation. I think it will be very helpful to the jury, considering how long this trial went on. And, how the defense closing misrepresented the evidence.

 

[Dotta]

Yes, every charge.

He will probably -

- refresh them on his legal directions,
- tell the story probably in date order, and go through:

- the evidence for each baby in terms of the clinical picture/background and colleagues' evidence,
- whatever else happened on or close to that date, such as text messages she sent before/after the shift, her Datix reports,
- what all the experts said, bringing out the important issues for the jury to determine about matters in disagreement,
- what she said in her successive police interviews,
- what paperwork police found in her house,
- what notes she'd written in her diaries,
- what Facebook searches she'd made,
- anything going on in her life at the time such as moving/holidays/workplace disputes/friendships,
- what she said in her defence statement, and anything extra, different, or salient she said in court,
- how the jury are to treat lies that have been admitted to,
- how they are the deciders of the facts in relation to issues in disagreement between her and any witness's evidence, and
- what must be proven in relation to each charge.

JMO

Thank you - our Expert - for your comprehensive reply!

 

[katydid23]

https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue

Mr Myers is going over the evidence for Child P final and fatal collapse when medics were waiting on a transport team from Arrowe Park to take him. A doctor who cannot be named recalled Ms Letby saying 'he's not going to leave here alive is he'

The doctor gave a vivid account of how she felt this was inappropriate and that Child P had just had a good gas was okay. But Mr Myers has said the clinical evidence shows Child P had an undiagnosed pneumothorax

He also notes that the doctor had said by this stage she was aware of rumours about Ms Letby - but he said 'there’s not even a datix report, not in the notes, no complaint, no issue raised about' what Ms Letby is alleged to have said

That is ridiculous---that he expects a doctor to make a Datix report about a statement made by a nurse about if a baby is going to make it or not. He can't be serious.

 

[katydid23]

Last bit for Baby P.

https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue

'Mr Myers says the evidence does show the child was unwell and the doctor, in charge of his care, 'felt out of her depth' - she said in evidence how she was counting down the minutes waiting for the transport team to take him

Mr Myers says if Ms Letby did make the remark alleged it may have been out of 'social awkwardness' and does not prove murder



He says the allegation here against Ms Letby is 'utterly implausible'. He also cites the fact a senior doctor was seen by the mother of Child P 'googling' how to insert a chest drain - he says that is 'indicative of the level of care at the Countess of Chester'

I don't think the mother of child P ever said word for word, 'how to insert a chest drain.' The doctor or intern MAY have been googling SOMETHING about the insertion of chest drains, but that does not mean they didnt know how to insert one.

Most likely they had a very specific question that they wanted to verify or double check.

 

[SleepyJoe]

That is ridiculous---that he expects a doctor to make a Datix report about a statement made by a nurse about if a baby is going to make it or not. He can't be serious.

Yes, this is a ridiculous assertion to make. Datix would not be the right channel to report such a thing. The online risk management incident reporting in my hospital is only accessible by nurses anyway, not sure about the NHS & Datix as I am in a different country. In all of the hospitals I have worked in, Drs do not report incidents on the system nurses use (ie our equivalent of Datix), we discuss clinical incidents at peer-reviewed morbidity and mortality meetings.

 

[Dotta]

"Lucy Letby sobbed in court as she was described as

'the obvious target'

for a hospital that failed babies in its care, during the nurse’s murder trial at Manchester crown court.

Letby, 33, became emotional and wiped her eyes with a tissue as her barrister said she was

a 'hard-working' and 'committed'

nurse who was 'distraught' at being accused of murdering babies.

'I’m saying this on her behalf because no one else will.

She was hard-working. She was deeply committed. She had a happy life. She loved her work and she was there much of the time because she was committed, because she loved being a nurse, and so she was there at the time these events happened.'

'For a system that wanted to apportion blame when it failed she was the obvious target – not because of the evidence … because she was there.' "

Lucy Letby an ‘obvious target’ for hospital that failed babies, court told

Defence lawyer tells murder trial that ‘committed’ nurse had nothing to do with ‘terrible failings’ on neonatal unit

www.theguardian.com

 

[Jazmania]

It would be interesting to see a chart recording how many total shifts Letby did that year compared to others. Without such actual evidence how can Myers claim that she was more likely to be present than others. Was evidence even presented that the unit took more babies and more babies with severe clinical needs that year?