UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #27

[marynnu]

Thanks very much for the updates. So according to this report, they started Neopuffing immediately without clearing the airway first? You can clear it with even just a bulb syringe or wall suction. Or maybe this detail is omitted for some reason?
In my experience— always clear the airway first, otherwise you are sending secretions and milk back down the airway. Mary NNU -/ is that still current practice as far as you know?
IMO, if guilty.

You'd definitely do suction, especially for a vomiting baby. I feel certain this detail was just left out, as you say.

 

[Becci]

How have they got the charge of AM for the 7th sept 2015 for baby G?
She never gave the feed & was with the shift leader at the work station when they both heard the vomit.
This is just surreal imo

 

[ColourPurple]

How have they got the charge of AM for the 7th sept 2015 for baby G?
She never gave the feed & was with the shift leader at the work station when they both heard the vomit.
This is just surreal imo

The prosecution covered this already... The designated nurse went for a break after feeding baby G around 2am. LL notes says the vomiting happened around 2.15am while she was at the nursing station desk with Ailsa Simpson and that a doctor was crash called. Ailsa agrees that she was at the nursing station with LL when the vomiting started. However Dr Ventress's notes say she was crash called at 2.35am.

If 2.35am is the correct time then there's an opportunity between the designated nurse leaving and LL being at the nursing station with Ailsa where LL could have potentially attacked Baby G and then gone to the nursing station to await the vomiting. The prosecution are suggesting LL moved the time of the vomiting to 2.15 in her notes so that it would look like there was no opportunity.

There have also been several alleged patterns in this case including babies allegedly being attacked when their designated nurse had just gone on a break, babies being attacked on significant dates, and babies having bleeding in the throat/vocal chords. Baby's G's alleged attack fits in with those three patterns.

It's down to the jury to decide whether they believe LL's version of events or whether they believe the prosecution.

 

[Becci]

The prosecution covered this already... The designated nurse went for a break after feeding baby G around 2am. LL notes says the vomiting happened around 2.15am while she was at the nursing station desk with Ailsa Simpson and that a doctor was crash called. Ailsa agrees that she was at the nursing station with LL when the vomiting started. However Dr Ventress's notes say she was crash called at 2.35am.

If 2.35am is the correct time then there's an opportunity between the designated nurse leaving and LL being at the nursing station with Ailsa where LL could have potentially attacked Baby G and then gone to the nursing station to await the vomiting. The prosecution are suggesting LL moved the time of the vomiting to 2.15 in her notes so that it would look like there was no opportunity.

There have also been several alleged patterns in this case including babies allegedly being attacked when their designated nurse had just gone on a break, babies being attacked on significant dates, and babies having bleeding in the throat/vocal chords. Baby's G's alleged attack fits in with those three patterns.

It's down to the jury to decide whether they believe LL's version of events or whether they believe the prosecution.

Thanks.

 

[Tortoise]

How have they got the charge of AM for the 7th sept 2015 for baby G?
She never gave the feed & was with the shift leader at the work station when they both heard the vomit.
This is just surreal imo

People who have attended court say that only a very small amount of what is said in court makes it into the live updates.

I've found the prosecution's closing speech a useful point of reference for extra details about the prosecution's case.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 21 - prosecution closing speech

2:32pm

Mr Johnson says nursing notes showed a 'normal baby, feeding properly' in the hours before Child G's vomit on September 7. At 8pm on September 6, nursing colleagues said Child G was stable and well.
A staffing rota for the night is shown for September 6-7 - "a quiet night", and Child G received a full feed from a bottle at 11pm and was "thriving". Mr Johnson says "little babies don't take full feeds from bottles unless they are happy little babies."
He says Letby has "massaged the times", as she had done in several other cases. Mr Johnson says the prosecution suggest the vomit was at 2.30am, not 2.15am.
Nursing colleague Ailsa Simpson initially said she was with Letby when Child G projectile vomited at 2.15am, and if that was true, Letby could not have been the cause of it. In a subsequent interview, she said she didn't know where the other nurses were.
Mr Johnson says Letby's nursing note on September 7 includes: Care given from 0200 to present. [Child G] had large projectile milky vomit at 0215.'
Mr Johnson says it's an interesting line that Letby had given care from 2am. He says this note is written six-and-a-half hours later, and the jury should take that with care, especially with Letby, as she "habitually misrecorded" information.
Mr Johnson says Child G wouldn't have tolerated a 45ml milk feed under gravity if the stomach was already containing undigested milk.
He says Ailsa Simpson's original account does not correspond with the neonatal review, as Ailsa Simpson fed a different child in room 1 at 2.20am [Child G being in room 2]. That child was "demanding food", Mr Johnson says, and that takes time.
Medication was co-signed for Child G at 1.42am by Ailsa Simpson, and another child at 2.13am. Mr Johnson says all this material shows she was busy at this time, and "cannot be accurate" with the 2.15am timing of the event.
Dr Alison Ventress recorded Child G was 'called to r/v [Child G] urgently at 2.35am...[Child G] had very large projectile vomit (reaching chair next to cot and canopy)'.
Mr Johnson says Dr Ventress was called urgently as Child G suffered a catastrophic brain injury, and the doctor arrived within minutes as they would not wait around.
Mr Johnson says Ailsa Simpson was distracted in room 1, her colleague had gone on a break, and that gave Letby "the perfect time" to sabotage Child G, and misrepresent it in the notes.

2:40pm

Mr Johnson says the longer the gap between the feed and vomit, the less likely the feed would be the reason for the vomit.

 

[Tortoise]

12:30pm

She said the searches for the parents of Child E and Child F more than once on Facebook was part of a normal pattern of behaviour for her, as was taking a picture of the card for the parents. She said it was something for her to remember, as was a photo of her shift pattern.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, July 4 - judge's summing up

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

She had a photo of her shift pattern?

I'm presuming this must be for the night of baby E's death, or I don't understand the connection to the summing up of the case of baby E. Something for her to remember?? Baby E was also the only baby on the indictment in her 2015 diary.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, July 4 - judge's summing up

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

3:25pm

<snipped by me> She identified a possible problem of the nursing colleague overfeeding Child G, but did not believe that likely.
In police interview, Letby said it was a "shock" for three deaths in June-September 2015, and "didn't feel there was anything to need to look into". She said the nursing colleague was on a break when the vomit happened.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, July 4 - judge's summing up

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

I presume this is a reporter error and should say four deaths Jun to Sep 2015, unless she meant three of the four deaths.

Her defence is that the deaths were caused by sub-standard care, delayed fluids, being looked after by a nurse too junior, delayed antibiotics, and delayed blood transfusion (babies A, C, D and E), but there is no indication of this in her answer.

I would have thought upon arrest two to three years later, she would have had time to think about this, and the plumbing.

JMO

 

[Dotta]

I just cannot imagine these poor Babies' suffering.
With traumas inflicted (liver, throat) choking on blood, bursting with milk or fluid, with air stoppig their hearts.

"Crying horrendously" or vomiting even through noses.

That is how the world "welcomed" them.


JMO

 

[katydid23]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue

Judge Mr Justice James Goss continues his summing up of the evidence in the Lucy Letby murder trial at Manchester Crown Court today. He yesterday told the jury they 'must decide where the truth lies'. Ms Letby is accused of killing seven babies and attempting to kill a further 10

Judge Goss is currently summarising the clinical/expert evidence for the case of Child D. He says the radiographical evidence indicated the presence of air in the baby girl's system and this - according to an expert was 'consistent with external intravenous air administration'

An expert in pathology, Dr Andreas Marnerides, who reviewed the case, said 'decomposition played no part' in the air's presence and could be excluded.

In his view, given there was 'no other natural disease that could explain the death' and given all the other evidence - the 'likely explanation for (Child D) dying was air embolism'




Judge Goss is currently summarising the evidence for Child E. He was born prematurely in late July 2015. On 3 August 2015, his mother said she heard him crying and found him with "blood coming out of his mouth".

She told the jury she recalled Ms Letby was standing at a nearby work station. Child E later deteriorated and despite medical efforts, later died on 4 August.

udge Goss says the experts in this case could find no evidence that he had necrotising enterocolitis (NEC) and they could not establish what had caused the baby boy to bleed, as witnessed by his mother.

He says expert Dr Dewi Evans concluded that Child E's blood loss was the result of an 'inappropriate' use of a medical tool which caused a 'trauma'. In his view the death was of air embolus



Judge Goss is now summarising the evidence for the case of Child E's twin brother, Child F - this is a charge of attempted murder.

The court has heard that shortly after the baby received intravenous nutrients on 4 August 2015, his heart rate surged and his blood sugars plummeted.

Blood samples showed an "extremely high" insulin level and a very low C-peptide level, which a medical expert said had "only one explanation", that being that the child "received insulin from some outside source".

Justice Goss said 'based on all notes and observations' medics had 'no other concerns outside normal prematurity' for Child F

 

[katydid23]

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
The court heard that in mid-August, she was transferred from Wirral's Arrowe Park Hospital and was "clinically stable" until 7 September, when she projectile vomited at about 02:00 BST

Her oxygen levels dropped and she stopped breathing several times over the next few hours before she responded to breathing support.

Prosecutors said Ms Letby overfed Child G with milk through a nasogastric tube or injected air into the same tube and made two more attempts to kill her on 21 September.

 

[Parker Knoll]

I agree - this is the first time I think this has been recorded about Letby taking a photograph of her shift pattern unless I have missed it.
It literally beggars belief that she has had YEARS to go through her own case and her answers were as banal as she has offered up and even though I have had a couple of weeks to process the plumber I am still in shock !
Day 3 tomorrow … we ride at dawn as they say.
JMO

 

[Dotta]

Day 3 tomorrow … we ride at dawn as they say.
JMO

More wine for us!
At Dawn We Ride!

 

[Jazmania]

The testimony of baby E's mom is what will get Letby sent down for the rest of her life IMO. Still powerful even just reading the judge's summary.

 

[katydid23]

12:18pm

Child E's mother recalled going to see Child E and Child F, at 9pm.
Letby was there at the workstation, the mother said. She added child E was crying like nothing before - 'horrendous', and saw 'blood coming out of his mouth'. It was 'not on, or going on to anything else', 'like a dribble pattern - it was blood'.
"It was smudged, and didn't look completely dry, it was darker [than normal]."
The mother said she was panicking and asked Letby why Child E was bleeding, She said Letby said the NGT had been rubbing at the back of the throat.
Letby did not recall saying this. In cross-examination, she said she did not tell the mother and would not tell parents to go away. She accepted that in the interview for Child N, she had said an NGT could cause bleeding.

Wow...Very interesting that the judge pointed out that discrepancy :
"The mother said she was panicking and asked Letby why Child E was bleeding, She said Letby said the NGT had been rubbing at the back of the throat.
Letby did not recall saying this. In cross-examination, she said she did not tell the mother and would not tell parents to go away. She accepted that in the interview for Child N, she had said an NGT could cause bleeding."

That is a damning little detail that she admitted saying it in N's case but tried to deny it in E's case.

The mother said she accepted what Letby had said, and did as she was told to go back to the post-natal ward as Letby was an authority figure, but she was concerned. She said she made a call to Child E's father. The judge refers to phone call data at 9.11pm. The father said the mother was upset at the time of this call.
Midwife Susan Brookes recalled Child E's mother had said to let her know if there were updates overnight from the unit, as one of the twins 'had deteriorated slightly'.
She had recalled at 11.30pm the neonatal unit rang to bring Child E's mother to the unit in 30 minutes, as Child E had a bleed.
Letby said in police interview, she could not recall the events with Child E's mother, and could not remember any specific bleed. She said the 14ml bleed later, after 10pm, was "very concerning" and, in evidence, that was when she said she first saw bleeding on Child E.
The judge says there are "significant conflicts" between Letby's evidence and that of the parents. He says the defence say the mother's evidence is "unreliable" in relation to timings.

I like how the judge gave so many direct quotes from E's mom's testimony. It is very hard to dismiss or discount her detailed testimony, imo.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, July 4 - judge's summing up

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[katydid23]

2:20pm

The trial judge clarifies a matter from this morning, and says during the cross-examination of Prof Arthurs, it was said that gas could be recirculated in the body in the event of vigorous resuscitation.

what does that^^^ mean?

 

[Lincoln34]

what does that^^^ mean?

I’m confused about this too .

 

[Lincoln34]

I just cannot imagine these poor Babies' suffering.
With traumas inflicted (liver, throat) choking on blood, bursting with milk or fluid, with air stoppig their hearts.

"Crying horrendously" or vomiting even through noses.

That is how the world "welcomed" them.


JMO

I get colic when really really stressed. It is so painful it makes me cry out loud - involuntarily. I ve had it about 4x . Once was In Oxford before first year exams. I collapsed in street and was taken to the John Radcliffe Hospital . It was agonising and I’m pretty hard generally and an adult. How it must feel to have trapped gas to an infant who cannot understand is really really hard for me to process. :-(

 

[Dotta]

Dbm

 

[Tortoise]

what does that^^^ mean?

It was testified to by Prof Arthurs in the case of baby D. One of the potential explanations for gases being found in the great vessels post mortem.