VERDICT WATCH UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #28

[Tortoise]

And yet he was maligned and mud was thrown at him
Disgusting

M angry O

I agree.

But everyone had to get under that bus, he's not alone, because there is no defence if they're right.

 

[marynnu]

Yeah I just meant for twins without names. Eg Baby Jones A, Baby Jones B.

Most likely would be Twin 1 Jones, Twin 2 Jones I think.

 

[notsure]

Sorry if this has been asked/covered previously, but I'm wondering: Does the defendant have to travel to court every day while the jury is deliberating? And the families involved - presumably they just wait around the court all day in case the jury comes back in?

 

[esther43]

It has to be the biggest 'coincidence' of them all.

Police identify their suspect in 2018, based on medical reviews which were done without knowledge of the staff members involved, and then insulin poisonings come to light, at which their suspect was present and assisting the designated nurses.

I wish I knew the odds of that.

Must have been the strangest feeling among the consultants team when they found out about the insulin. I anticipate a full 'This Morning' exclusive with Dr RJ on the sofa explaining it all.

 

[Parker Knoll]

Yes Letby is brought every day to court to wait.
It’s the same for the parents sadly, they must be on absolute pins.

 

[Dotta]

Yes Letby is brought every day to court to wait.
It’s the same for the parents sadly, they must be on absolute pins.

Some parents can watch from Chester via video link.

 

[JosieJo]

With such a long trial ..could anyone hazard a guess how long the judge would leave it before putting a majority verdict to the jury

 

[marynnu]

Must have been the strangest feeling among the consultants team when they found out about the insulin. I anticipate a full 'This Morning' exclusive with Dr RJ on the sofa explaining it all.

I'm guessing a combination of shock and something aproaching relief that they were right to stick to their guns (relief is the wrong word, just can't think of a better one). All JMO.

 

[katydid23]

Yes Letby is brought every day to court to wait.
It’s the same for the parents sadly, they must be on absolute pins.

This is why I hope the jury can sort it out quickly. I can't imagine 2 or 3 months of deliberations with the parents coming every day.

 

[Dotta]

I'm guessing a combination of shock and something aproaching relief that they were right to stick to their guns (relief is the wrong word, just can't think of a better one). All JMO.

Allegedly,

Justified and assured
But
terrified at the same time, b/c we always hope our worst nightmares might NOT be real.

JMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

This is why I hope the jury can sort it out quickly. I can't imagine 2 or 3 months of deliberations with the parents coming every day.

Yeh that must be excruciating.

 

[esther43]

[

I'm guessing a combination of shock and something of a relief that they were right to stick to their guns (relief is the wrong word, just can't think of a better one). All JMO.

Exactly my thoughts too. The relief to know they wernt going mad and also to know that they had played their part in protecting the babies.

 

[Tortoise]

@esther43 you were asking about a hostile witness in relation to this case recently.

I just remembered Emile Cilliers' wife was declared a hostile witness at his trial for his twice attempted murder of her. If anyone's interested there is an excellent ITV podcast of the case which includes interviews with the detectives and the prosecutor, and covers the matter of her being declared a hostile witness, since she was a victim of his coercive control and didn't want to believe he had tried to kill her.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-07-13...rachute-murder-plot-in-our-true-crime-podcast

 

[esther43]

@esther43 you were asking about a hostile witness in relation to this case recently.

I just remembered Emile Cilliers' wife was declared a hostile witness at his trial for his twice attempted murder of her. If anyone's interested there is an excellent ITV podcast of the case which includes interviews with the detectives and the prosecutor, and covers the matter of her being declared a hostile witness, since she was a victim of his coercive control and didn't want to believe he had tried to kill her.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-07-13...rachute-murder-plot-in-our-true-crime-podcast

That's right, in relation to EP.
Wow, eight episodes, this will keep me going whilst I'm doing the dishes!

 

[Becky53]

That's right, in relation to EP.
Wow, eight episodes, this will keep me going whilst I'm doing the dishes!

Wow that’s some mound of dishes

 

[esther43]

Wow that’s some mound of dishes

I was tempted to add a comment explaining that it would be over the course of a week!

 

[iamshadow21]

I was tempted to add a comment explaining that it would be over the course of a week!

Either that, or you just like your dishes REALLY clean. An hour and a box of cotton buds per plate!

 

[Eloise]

Is it ever the case that they are already in that position - reporting back not u

I rephrased this post for a member called Lucy, as it was written without much thought about the content or structure, however, it was deeply criticised by someone sounding like they were perhaps a barrister or civil servant, as though a senior government official cannot and would not ever pick up the phone to a judge, and as though somehow the 'rule of law' takes precedence over relationships and precludes discussions in such matters. It was also implied that this is somehow a garden variety criminal trial and not one which has the potential to be a significant national talking point (and distraction). It clearly is not. However, there were admittedly a number of errors on my part, in what I was merely speculating, and some helpful input was introduced later by someone with far greater expertise than me, a mere observer speculating admittedly in a stream of consciousness fashion.

Then a history teacher weighed in implying that somehow drawing attention to potential interest in the case by those more involved in the governance than the legal side somehow implies an unfriendliness towards the justice system. There was concern expressed that ministers or other government people might be trying to influence judges or that judges might be swayed by government influences. This was considered an absurd idea - that was the position in effect. However, this was not what the speculation was about. I was simply speculating that this case will have such reverberations in society, that it is likely to be on the radar of officials and thus, members of the highest levels of governance in the country, and that actions are likely to be being taken as to how the outcomes might be handled, and how the press might be briefed in such a regard, and that cross government collaboration on that might include senior people across 3 potential departments / ministries. Among many other priorities of course. The posts which critiqued and seemed to make bullying and mocking, condescending remarks seemed also to have noble aspirations regarding what government should and shouldn't do and how judges should and shouldn't behave, again written in the spirit of rule of law primacy but were far removed from the reality, IMO. Though I feel these sentiments were perhaps slightly naive, I appreciate though the spirit with which the critiques were written.

LL isn't the first ever accused healthcare killer, and its unlikely she'll be the last. I'm not sure why you think this case is, or will be if she's found guilty, so politically important. Harold Shipman killed 250 people and nothing like what you're saying/implying happened because of his case. So what makes LL so different?
(edit for clarity: yes things get looked into, practices get changed etc, but these kinds of things are pretty standard and routine to happen after a bad event, nothing particularly out of the ordinary at all)

 

[Sweeper2000]

LL isn't the first ever accused healthcare killer, and its unlikely she'll be the last. I'm not sure why you think this case is, or will be if she's found guilty, so politically important. Harold Shipman killed 250 people and nothing like what you're saying/implying happened because of his case. So what makes LL so different?
(edit for clarity: yes things get looked into, practices get changed etc, but these kinds of things are pretty standard and routine to happen after a bad event, nothing particularly out of the ordinary at all)

Agreed. What happened at the coch isn’t of national importance. It’s not like Lucy letby sold state secrets Whilst attending university on a state sponsorship.

 

[Marantz4250b]

LL isn't the first ever accused healthcare killer, and its unlikely she'll be the last. I'm not sure why you think this case is, or will be if she's found guilty, so politically important. Harold Shipman killed 250 people and nothing like what you're saying/implying happened because of his case. So what makes LL so different?
(edit for clarity: yes things get looked into, practices get changed etc, but these kinds of things are pretty standard and routine to happen after a bad event, nothing particularly out of the ordinary at all)

I entirely agree. This is just another criminal case. Yes, it's significant from a legal and social point of view due to how extremely unusual it is, but it's not of much relevance to government or the fabric of society.

This is not a case which has the state at its core; the Couzens case is of far more relevance as far as that is concerned as he acted upon the authority expressly given to him by the state as it is authorised to do under the law. He was acting, to an extent, as an agent of the state - Lucy Letby wasn't and she has never been handed any power held by the state in the way Couzens was. If the state wanted to influence any case to make it look better it would have been that one.

Even if the government did have legitimate cause to "interfere" it would do it by applying for court orders to do whatever it wanted to do and not by leaning on or applying undue pressure on the judge and lawyers involved.