VERDICT WATCH UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #29

[marynnu]

Well, it is obvious - otherwise she would never be employed as a nurse working in close contact with patients, would she?

JMO

I know, but maybe the judge has to say it anyway, in the interests of fairness.

 

[Tortoise]

Could it just mean she has no previous convictions I wonder?

Yes, that is what the judge is referring to when he says good character.

 

[Dotta]

Yes, that is what the judge is referring to when he says good character.

But why to state the obvious?

 

[marynnu]

But why to state the obvious?

Because everyone has to be treated equally. The judge can't make the assumption that the jury will know this, however obvious it may be.

 

[Dotta]

Because everyone has to be treated equally. The judge can't make the assumption that the jury will know this, however obvious it may be.

I guess it means the Press will have nothing to write about except gossip after the trial, if she is guilty, of course.

Because the alleged attacks happened out of view.
And only the victims saw the face of (an alleged) monster.

Everybody else saw "nice Lucy".
The smiling face she presented to the world.

JMO

 

[esther43]

Whilst she hasn't anything on record, she's been identified at a relatively young age really.
Wasn't that long before that she was under 18.
Incidents that happen before you are 18 can't really be detected through dbs checks and having a history of mental health issues wouldn't necessarily be a barrier to working on a neonatal unit.
I thought it was poignant that she identified a teacher as a person who meant something to her in her post it note ramblings.
I would either connect that with LL recieving additional support at school from one individual teacher or it somehow links to a sinister event concerned with that time period.
I think the same of the note about her deceased pet 'whiskey' being raised among the notes along with deceased children. Either LL is thinking about all the babies/animals she has lost or she is thinking about events that led up to these 'associated' instances.

 

[Marantz4250b]

But the Judge said that she "was of good character" till being charged.

So if there is any info about her in possession of the Press, it might only be gossip or anecdotal.

JMO

Do you have a link to that because it doesn't sound like something a judge would say, tbh?

I'll stand corrected on that, however.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Could it just mean she has no previous convictions I wonder?

Previous convictions would never be mentioned by the court, as far as I'm aware. Perhaps the defence might mention it but no one else would

 

[Marantz4250b]

Well, it is obvious - otherwise she would never be employed as a nurse working in close contact with patients, would she?

JMO

Having a conviction means little, to be honest. It's having a conviction which is relevant to what you are doing which matters.

If she had a conviction for running a red traffic light or having an untaxed vehicle, for instance, then that makes no difference to whether she can work as a nurse.

 

[Tortoise]

Previous convictions would never be mentioned by the court, as far as I'm aware. Perhaps the defence might mention it but no one else would

They would if they were of the same nature as the current charges. It's the reason (IMO) why the jury has been directed it can use one of the charges, if they are sure she is guilty of it, as supporting evidence for the other charges.

This is just a snippet from this link - Bad Character Evidence | The Crown Prosecution Service

One of the most radical departures from the common law was to permit evidence of propensity to be used as probative of an issue in the case. Section 103(1) provides that matters in issue between the defendant and the prosecution include –

1. the question whether the defendant has a propensity to commit offences of the kind with which he is charged, except where his having such a propensity makes it no more likely that he is guilty of the offence;
2. the question whether the defendant has a propensity to be untruthful, except where it is not suggested that the defendant’s case is untruthful in any respect.

By subsection 2

Where subsection (1)(a) applies, a defendant’s propensity to commit offences of the kind with which he is charged may (without prejudice to any other way of doing so) be established by evidence that he has been convicted of

1. an offence of the same description as the one with which he is charged, or
2. an offence of the same category as the one with which he is charged.

--

3:24pm

"Letby, the court hears, has no previous criminal convictions or cautions."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, April 27

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

11:02am

"The judge says Letby has no previous convictions. He says it is entirely for the jury to attach the weight of the defendant's previous character."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, July 3 - judge's summing up

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Dotta]

Do you have a link to that because it doesn't sound like something a judge would say, tbh?

I'll stand corrected on that, however.

Well, my memory played a trick on me it seems.
Im in holiday mood

So, it seems the Judge mentioned no previous convictions and I remembered it as "good character".

(Although it might mean exactly what I thought)

In my line of work we have to provide a document of "no convictions" to employer, so I was sure that healthcare workers must do it too.
If education sector requires it, I think healthcare should even more.

I read that American nurses allegedly have their fingerprints taken.

But, who knows?
A nurse with previous conviction/s seems a ridiculous notion to me.
Scary!!!

JMO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Can you imagine if she'd put the families and jury through a 9mth trial and then confessed right at the end.... honestly wouldn't surprise me

JMO, I don't think someone capable of doing such things would suddenly 'confess' at the end of a trial, so much as over time move out of denial and the elaborate unconscious defence mechanisms they used to justify and rationalise themself to themself.

Then become enlightened enough to realise they have an obligation to speak out and be honest - this type of dramatic change certainly does happen with many types of people, usually as a result of working very hard and rigorous spiritual recovery programmes.

Conversely it could also be the case that LL has come to harm or harmed herself maybe?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Having a conviction means little, to be honest. It's having a conviction which is relevant to what you are doing which matters.

If she had a conviction for running a red traffic light or having an untaxed vehicle, for instance, then that makes no difference to whether she can work as a nurse.

It would show a disregard for the rules and failing to comply so maybe not really.

There's some jobs where people are really just worker ants in a hierarchy. You train how to do your job and follow the training to the letter, otherwise you're a risk. Anyone going off piste, free thinking, making decisions themselves or changing things without instruction are just rogue employees - in this I include medicine, law enforcement, the military, and some types of science based companies.

If someone who is a worker ant also had the same personality as someone who risks running and red light and driving an untaxed vehicle, I wouldn't feel safe.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Thought -
When jurors were ill during the trial, they just said people were ill, correct?

So could it be that two jurors argued during deliberations to the point they don't want to return together, and the court is attempting mediation, which isn't going well? Hence the awful quiet right now?

 

[musicaljoke]

Thought -
When jurors were ill during the trial, they just said people were ill, correct?

So could it be that two jurors argued during deliberations to the point they don't want to return together, and the court is attempting mediation, which isn't going well? Hence the awful quiet right now?

Jurors are expected to behave like responsible adults, so a spat would not shut down the deliberations.

It's more likely that something happened that would lead to identifying the juror if the reason was reported to the public. There could have been a car accident with one of the family members in critical condition, or one of the jurors could be involved in another legal case that has come up in court. There are many things it could be. We just have to wait.

 

[crystalline]

Jurors are expected to behave like responsible adults, so a spat would not shut down the deliberations.

It's more likely that something happened that would lead to identifying the juror if the reason was reported to the public. There could have been a car accident with one of the family members in critical condition, or one of the jurors could be involved in another legal case that has come up in court. There are many things it could be. We just have to wait.

Honestly 9 months is a long time for 12 people, it could really be anything.

For instance when my dogs died, one in particular hit me really hard and I was in bits for a good few days afterwards....no one would have got me to attend anything outside of the house during this period. Different people of the 12 are all in different life staituations I would imagine.

Hopefully everything will be back on next week.

 

[Dotta]

Thought -
When jurors were ill during the trial, they just said people were ill, correct?

So could it be that two jurors argued during deliberations to the point they don't want to return together, and the court is attempting mediation, which isn't going well? Hence the awful quiet right now?

They aren't in a sandbox but in Court

Let's give these folks a break!

They deserve it!!!

My Opinion!

 

[katydid23]

Honestly 9 months is a long time for 12 people, it could really be anything.

For instance when my dogs died, one in particular hit me really hard and I was in bits for a good few days afterwards....no one would have got me to attend anything outside of the house during this period. Different people of the 12 are all in different life staituations I would imagine.

Hopefully everything will be back on next week.

My friend was on a jury a few years ago----not a murder trial but a criminal trial that was a serious crime----and just before deliberation her 10 yr old woke up in middle of the night very sick---had to go to hospital---ended up OK but she was not in court for a few days because of it---trial was postponed.

 

[Tortoise]

Quiz Part 1 - Answer sheet will be posted on Sunday night

Q.1

When Mr Johnson said to LL “we will dance the dance if you want to” did Mr Myers object to this because comments like this are –

A. improper
B. humiliating
C. belittling
D. sarcastic

Q.2

The Hon. Mr Justice Goss celebrated a milestone birthday during the trial. Is he -

A. 40
B. 50
C. 60
D. 70

Q.3

In police interview, when LL spotted from the doorway that baby I was pale, did LL tell police the lights were –

A. Off
B. On (full)
C. Low on a dimmer
D. All or a mixture of these


Q.4

Did Mr Myers describe the information presented by the prosecution as –

A. spaghetti junction
B. spaghetti on the wall
C. spaghetti salad
D. spaghetti soup

Q.5

How many court days have been lost to juror absences (not including snow days) –

A. 15 1/2
B. 19 1/2
C. 24 1/2
D. 26 1/2

Q.6

Did LL tell police she wrote “I am evil” because –

A. "other people would perceive me as evil if I had missed anything"
B. "If my practice wasn't good enough then it made me feel like an evil person"
C. Both of the above statements

Q.7

What was the final thing LL said to police, at the end of her third and last interview on Nov 10 2020 -

A. "No"
B. "I'm just a bit exhausted now"
C. "They might have been taken home in my pocket"
D. "I felt as though I wasn't good enough"

Q.8

What was pictured on LL’s work name badge –

A. a butterfly
B. an owl
C. a teddy bear
D. a bee

Q.9

How many nurses and nursery nurses were on the staff presence report (nursing spreadsheet) including LL?

A. 23
B. 28
C. 31
D. 38

Q.10

How many Facebook searches did LL carry out in November 2015 –

A. 173
B. 277
C. 305
D. 367

Quiz Part 2 - Answer sheet will be posted on Sunday night

Q.11

Which was the first case looked at by Dr Evans –

A. Baby A
B. Baby F
C. Baby G
D. Baby O


Q.12

The word cardia, as in bradycardia, is Greek for –

A. lungs
B. heart
C. brain
D. cords (vocal)


Q.13

Where did LL go on holiday between 16 and 22 June 2016 –

A. Torquay
B. Cockington
C. Ithaca
D. Ibiza


Q.14

Which intercostal space (space between the ribs) did Mr Myers say is the optimum position for a chest drain -

A. fifth
B. first
C. third
D. fourth


Q.15

How many of these items did LL say (in a text) she had when she invited some friends to her house:
a spare bed/prosecco/a disco ball/a shredder/vodka/mojito

A. three
B. two
C. four
D. five


Q.16

What was the make of LL’s leisure suit -

A. Tommy Hilfiger
B. Bruce Lee
C. Hello Kitty
D. Lee Cooper


Q.17

When LL messaged doc choc to say she’d forgotten to bring her sandwich, what did he offer her –

A. a cheese roll
B. chocolate
C. a cereal bar
D. Tapas


Q.18

What is the plural of embolus -

A. emboluses
B. embola
C. emboli
D. embolous


Q.19

What was pictured on the Morrisons’ bag for life found under LL’s bed -

A. leeks
B. pears
C. corn cobs
D. carrots


Q.20

What colour horse did LL ask her mum to place a bet on –

A. bay
B. gray
C. chestnut
D. black

I'm tallying up the scores for the quiz entries.

These people entered Part 1 but not Part 2, so giving you an opportunity in case you missed it and would still like to do it -

@katydid23 , @bobbymkii , @Kemug and @Diddly1


@Dotta entered Part 2 but not Part 1.

 

[Dotta]

@Tortoise
Part 1

Q1. C
Q2. D
Q3. C
Q4. D
Q5. D
Q6. B
Q7. B
Q8. A
Q9. C
Q10. B