UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #4

[notsure]

"Catheter not ideally placed" doesn't sound good.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I'm confused about the difference between a catheter and a cannula.

The Difference Between A Catheter And A Cannula | Jenns Blah Blah Blog

The catheter and the cannula are easily confused. Although both can be used to deliver IV solutions, they are quite different. The catheter is a vinyl tube

www.jennsblahblahblog.com

 

[notsure]

UVC = Umbilical Venous Catheter

 

[Marantz4250b]

"Catheter not ideally placed" doesn't sound good.

Not at all.

 

[Powermjp]

These are very good points. The important thing to consider is how FB worked back in 2015 rather than how it works today. The first alleged crime here was nearly seven and a half years ago and that length of time is glacial in electronic development terms.

I rarely use FB these days but when I do I can tell it's not the same as it was even quite recently. The "people you might know" section is no where near as prominent as it used to be. It used to randomly appear in your feed but it doesn't seem to do that anymore. Also, the people who are suggested to you today tend to be more along the lines of people who are friends of friends. I can't recall the last time when FB gave me a friend suggestion of someone who I'd met and had been in close proximity to. That seems never to happen anymore and I wonder whether it's due to some data protection/human rights issue.

The prosecution has said that she "searched" for these people. Did she, though, or did she just view a profile presented to her? Moreover, back in the day, did viewing a random profile which was presented to you get recorded somewhere as a "search"? Even if she did actually use the search bar to search for a name previous searches remain on the search bar until you remove them. If you go to search for something all the recent searches appear on the drop-down and it's tempting to hit that previous name for a catch up on their life.

I can well imagine that if you're asked years later as to why you searched for a particular person on a particular date you wouldn't remember as you may not have even registered in your own mind that hitting that name on the search bar again was a repeat search. You may well see it as a simple link to page rather than hunting someone out again.

Christmas Day is a day on which, I'd guess, that tens of millions of people would be looking people up they haven't seen in a while and suchlike. Clicking on the search bar and seeing those names from recent searches might result in a great temptation to have another look at someone, especially someone who you know has undergone a recent great trauma and especially at Christmas. In fact, it may lead to a little internal moral dilemma - if you see those names on Christmas day do you click on them or simply ignore them? I can see how someone might be conflicted in that.

The point of all this is that I think we need to know the specific nature of the FB activity before we can pass judgement on it or come to any conclusion as to its evidential value.

The prosecution say she searched, as in typed in their names on the search bar. that data is available in your Facebook activity. That's been the same for at least 8 or 9 years. That's how they know who she had searched or they would have worded it different

The people you may know thing is not what they mean here.

 

[BabaVanga]

The prosecution say she searched, as in typed in their names on the search bar. that data is available in your Facebook activity. That's been the same for at least 8 or 9 years. That's how they know who she had searched or they would have worded it different

The people you may know thing is not what they mean here.

Correct

 

[Marantz4250b]

The prosecution say she searched, as in typed in their names on the search bar. that data is available in your Facebook activity. That's been the same for at least 8 or 9 years. That's how they know who she had searched or they would have worded it different

The people you may know thing is not what they mean here.

That's not what they've said (unless I've missed something) and that data isn't available in your FB history, I don't think.

They have said that she carried out searches for them. Clicking a name that you searched for last month which is on the drop-down search history is most certainly not "typing in" the names but it counts as a "search".

I'm not aware that FB records actual key logging data so I doubt they could show that someone definitely typed something out and I don't think that the prosecution have ever alleged that she did that on each occasion.

 

[Tortoise]

2:09pm

The trial will resume shortly at Manchester Crown Court.

LIVE: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, October 19

 

[Marantz4250b]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed for being very rude, and for telling others how to post>

<modsnip> You have said, though, that the prosecution have alleged that she physically typed the names out each time. They haven't alleged that as far as I'm aware.

We did the whole FB search thing the other day when I said that I'd downloaded mine to see how far the search history went back.

They have said that she made searches for these names but that could be as simple as clicking a name from the previous search drop-down. It still gets recorded as a search. It doesn't make a record of the physical key-strokes, or at least it's not something you get when you download your data.

Edit: I've just tried it. I clicked a name from the dropdown that was the bottom most on the list. I then went to account activity and checked my searches. The most recent one is the one I clicked even though I didn't type a single character.

 

[Powermjp]

<modsnip>

No that's not correct, in my activity log I just checked and it says "searched for" and whatever I typed in. I typed in a few different things it recorded things that were not even names. I typed in red house, and then it logged I searched that.

So it logs whatever you search for on the bar, and says searched for.

You must be looking at the wrong thing

And it didn't log people i clicked on like you said. So the activity history is what you need to look at.

I clicked on people you may know, and it didn't say I searched for their names.

 

[Tortoise]

A few quotes from the live reporting in relation to facebook searches (there are many more) -

- After finishing her shift, Letby searched on Facebook for Child C's parents.

- Less than 24 hours after Child C had died, at 3.52pm, Letby searched on Facebook for his parents.

- It was put to Letby, in November 2020, that she had searched for the parents of Child D on Facebook.

- The prosecution say Lucy Letby "took an unusual interest" in the family of Child E. She did social media searches on the parents two days after Child E’s death, and on August 23, September 14, October 5, November 5, December 7, and even on December 25.
The prosecution say there were further searches in January 2016.

- In November 2020, she was asked why she had searched for the parents of Child E and F. She said she thought it might be to see how Child F was doing.

- On October 5, 2015, the prosecution say Letby searched for the mum of Child H, the father of Children E and F, and the mother of Child I. It was her day off.

- A year later, on the anniversary of Child O's death, Letby carried out a search on Facebook on the surname of the child.

 

[Imnothere]

I know it's there. You have said, though, that the prosecution have alleged that she physically typed the names out each time. They haven't alleged that as far as I'm aware.

We did the whole FB search thing the other day when I said that I'd downloaded mine to see how far the search history went back.

They have said that she made searches for these names but that could be as simple as clicking a name from the previous search drop-down. It still gets recorded as a search. It doesn't make a record of the physical key-strokes, or at least it's not something you get when you download your data.

Edit: I've just tried it. I clicked a name from the dropdown that was the bottom most on the list. I then went to account activity and checked my searches. The most recent one is the one I clicked even though I didn't type a single character.

It's agreed evidence from both the defense and prosecution that she completed the searches though, so I don't understand why you're trying to dispute it?

 

[Tortoise]

2:13pm

The prosecution is now giving an agreed evidence statement from Dr Sally Ogden, who looked after Child A.

LIVE: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, October 19

 

[Marantz4250b]

No that's not correct, in my activity log I just checked and it says "searched for" and whatever I typed in. I typed in a few different things it recorded things that were not even names. I typed in red house, and then it logged I searched that.

You must be looking at the wrong thing

And it didn't log people i clicked on like you said. So the activity history is what you need to look at

Go back on the search drop-down and click one of the names you tried previously. Check your account activity under searches and it will be the most recent search.

 

[Powermjp]

I know it's there. You have said, though, that the prosecution have alleged that she physically typed the names out each time. They haven't alleged that as far as I'm aware.

We did the whole FB search thing the other day when I said that I'd downloaded mine to see how far the search history went back.

They have said that she made searches for these names but that could be as simple as clicking a name from the previous search drop-down. It still gets recorded as a search. It doesn't make a record of the physical key-strokes, or at least it's not something you get when you download your data.

Edit: I've just tried it. I clicked a name from the dropdown that was the bottom most on the list. I then went to account activity and checked my searches. The most recent one is the one I clicked even though I didn't type a single character.

I'm sorry you are mistaken.

There's even a section in the activity that logs your searches called "you searched Facebook"

This does not log peoples accounts you visited.


This does not log accounts you visited, it only logs what you typed in the bar nothing else.

 

[Noseyposy76]

Go back on the search drop-down and click one of the names you tried previously. Check your account activity under searches and it will be the most recent search.

You are correct.

 

[May72031]

A few quotes from the live reporting in relation to facebook searches (there are many more) -

- A year later, on the anniversary of Child O's death, Letby carried out a search on Facebook on the surname of the child.

[above bolding mine]
That's interesting...

 

[Marantz4250b]

It's agreed evidence from both the defense and prosecution that she completed the searches though, so I don't understand why you're trying to dispute it?

People are misreading what I'm writing. I'm NOT disputing that she made the searches. I'm questioning the nature and relevance of them.

Clicking a name from the previous search drop-down is not the same as typing out a name. It has been claimed that the prosecution has said that she physically typed the names out. They have never claimed that, as far as I am aware.

As I say, if you are searching for something else and you see someone's name on the drop-down it's tempting to click on it even though you didn't go there to search for them, especially if that person has had some significant impact on your life. The intent is what matters.

 

[Powermjp]

I know it's there. You have said, though, that the prosecution have alleged that she physically typed the names out each time. They haven't alleged that as far as I'm aware.

We did the whole FB search thing the other day when I said that I'd downloaded mine to see how far the search history went back.

They have said that she made searches for these names but that could be as simple as clicking a name from the previous search drop-down. It still gets recorded as a search. It doesn't make a record of the physical key-strokes, or at least it's not something you get when you download your data.

Edit: I've just tried it. I clicked a name from the dropdown that was the bottom most on the list. I then went to account activity and checked my searches. The most recent one is the one I clicked even though I didn't type a single character.

I realised what you are taking about drop down.

This only comes up if you previously searches that name, I hope you know that?? It's called a suggested search!


So if she typed the first letter of the name

It's nothing like the people you may know tab.

It's like autosuggestion on Google search

 

[Tortoise]

People are misreading what I'm writing. I'm NOT disputing that she made the searches. I'm questioning the nature and relevance of them.

Clicking a name from the previous search drop-down is not the same as typing out a name. It has been claimed that the prosecution has said that she physically typed the names out. They have never claimed that, as far as I am aware.

As I say, if you are searching for something else and you see someone's name on the drop-down it's tempting to click on it even though you didn't go there to search for them, especially if that person has had some significant impact on your life. The intent is what matters.

Was it like that in 2015?

I'm asking because I don't use FB