UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #4

[catgreen]

Has it been explained before, why does he need "fluids" through a long line as well as breast milk through his naso-gastric tube?

yes, you said earlier 'A small amount of expressed breast milk is administered at 4pm and 6pm via the naso-gastric tube.' A small amount implies not sufficient to keep the baby hydrated, with a premature baby dehydration and abnormal electrolytes could quickly be fatal

 

[Powermjp]

So far, I've heard nothing that points to LL as doing anything wrong, apart from "taking her work home with her" or being too emotionally invested in the families involved.

Looks like there were failings in the unit as a whole.

what about the confession note?

 

[Imnothere]

The Facebook searches could be explained away but didn't Lucy say that she can't remember searching most of them? It's been agreed that she searched frequently the parents of all children under her care, but she said when questioned that she can't remember. I don't think she'll take the stand as it's too risky. When questioned, she would have been better off stating that she searches everyone so can't remember any specific names.

 

[Marantz4250b]

what about the confession note?

Again, been discussed a lot on here and it is far from a straightforward. The note also says "I've done nothing wrong" and it has been stated in court that there were numerous other notes expressing statements of innocence.

 

[notsure]

They can yes .. but complications can arise from most things in medicine.
These are used constantly on neonatal units and on the long shot chance a complication did occur the drs would recognise it was the cause.
So far there has been no evidence to suggest there was a complication caused by this.
It's possible it might come up.but no indication so far

True. We haven't had any evidence at all of how things happened yet.

You say doctors would recognise if that was the cause. I guess they never make mistakes?

 

[Marantz4250b]

The Facebook searches could be explained away but didn't Lucy say that she can't remember searching most of them? It's been agreed that she searched frequently the parents of all children under her care, but she said when questioned that she can't remember. I don't think she'll take the stand as it's too risky. When questioned, she would have been better off stating that she searches everyone so can't remember any specific names.

A nurse carrying out such searches is quite likely extremely unethical. I don't think it's at all unusual that she might lie about making them given that.

 

[notsure]

what about the confession note?

The note where she was exploring all her emotions after the trauma of being accused? Where she expressed all her fears of what would happen to her? If that's proof of her guilt, I don't know why they're having a six-month trial.

 

[JosieJo]

True. We haven't had any evidence at all of how things happened yet.

You say doctors would recognise if that was the cause. I guess they never make mistakes?

Absolutely they do yes but at least 2 paediatric specialists have looked at the cases aswell as the Dr at the time , the consultant on call at the time etc .. if there were indicators that it was the line that caused problems then I'm sure one of them will bring it up

 

[JosieJo]

This isn't going to be a case with a smoking gun is it. No single piece of evidence will prove guilt. It will just be a case If cumulatively the evidence presented is too much to ignore. If it's enough to make the jury sure

 

[JosieJo]

A nurse carrying out such searches is quite likely extremely unethical. I don't think it's at all unusual that she might lie about making them given that.

I agree ..I thought at first she might have panicked and thought oh god ill get struck off.
But she has been interviewed a few times and once presented with the evidence that they can show she searched I'm surprised she didn't say ...Well actually I panicked but I'd now like to explain why

 

[Legal]

I agree ..I thought at first she might have panicked and thought oh god ill get struck off.
But she has been interviewed a few times and once presented with the evidence that they can show she searched I'm surprised she didn't say ...Well actually I panicked but I'd now like to explain why

Plus I'm sure being struck off is the least of her worries after being accused of murder.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Plus I'm sure being struck off is the least of her worries after being accused of murder.

I agree ..I thought at first she might have panicked and thought oh god ill get struck off.
But she has been interviewed a few times and once presented with the evidence that they can show she searched I'm surprised she didn't say ...Well actually I panicked but I'd now like to explain why

I take the points. This all depends of the precise nature of when she was asked though. She was arrested three times so if she was only asked in the earlier interviews she may never have had the opportunity to correct herself. Once charged they can't ask her any further questions.

 

[JosieJo]

I take the points. This all depends of the precise nature of when she was asked though. She was arrested three times so if she was only asked in the earlier interviews she may never have had the opportunity to correct herself. Once charged they can't ask her any further questions.

I think even if she doesn't take the stand she can submit a prepared statement as part of her defence if she wanted to clarify

 

[Emma2007]

This is the NMC guidance on use of social media. There is absolutely nothing to prohibit any nurse from looking at patients public profiles, as long as they do not attempt to connect with them or post anything that may breach confidentiality or be identifiable.
Whether is is ethical or not is subjective, you could argue that by creating posts with public settings you are consenting to people viewing them. Surely that is the whole purpose of social media? If you are uncomfortable people viewing your social media content then private settings should be applied?

https://www.nmc.org.uk/globalassets/sitedocuments/nmc-publications/social-media-guidance.pdf

 

[Powermjp]

The note where she was exploring all her emotions after the trauma of being accused? Where she expressed all her fears of what would happen to her? If that's proof of her guilt, I don't know why they're having a six-month trial.

Why are you stating this in the most favourable way possible for her? A non bias person would say that's a very strange note.

Saying you killed on purpose is "exploring" I don't agree, its disturbing at best. And a confession at worst.

It clearly was a very disturbed note. Either way, we also had experts who said some have died of air being injected.

I never said proof of guilt, its called evidence, and its used to built a case with other evidence which then the jury can decide. And circumstance evidence can be used in a case.

People have been charged and put away, when there has been no direct evidence before.

 

[notsure]

Why are you stating this in the most favourable way possible for her? A non bias person would say that's a very strange note.

Saying you killed on purpose is "exploring" I don't agree, its disturbing at best. And a confession at worst.

It clearly was a very disturbed note. Either way, we also had experts who said some have died of air being injected.

I never said proof of guilt, its called evidence, and its used to built a case with other evidence which then the jury can decide. And circumstance evidence can be used in a case.

People have been charged and put away, when there has been no direct evidence before.

Haha, stating it in the most favourable way? Not at all - just putting a possible defence approach. I've no bias either way, except that I need evidence of guilt before I find someone guilty.

 

[Charlot123]

I think it’s worth considering that while most people think of Christmas Day to be a time of celebrating with family, the reality is that as a nurse she might have been working Christmas Day (Especially as a single nurse with no children).
The idea that she left her family to go do fb searches could be far off the mark.

Honestly, modern Christmas is a very quiet holiday. For many, Christmas is the time to look back and dwell on the events of the past year; some post what happened to them during the year. I wonder if LL was merely curious. But - there were many traumatic events in the NICU, I wonder, won’t the wish to forget, to put it behind, be more expected? However, we are different in behavior, and except for one tiny text that rubbed me the wrong way, the rest can be easily explained.

 

[Powermjp]

Haha, stating it in the most favourable way? Not at all - just putting a possible defence approach. I've no bias either way, except that I need evidence of guilt before I find someone guity

Evidence of guilt that suits you yes, you are totally entitled to your opinion. But you are speaking as if you are factually correct about there being no evidence, and the note doesnt count. But that's not true, for a lot of people and people in the jury that note will be damning.

Other people they may have a different opinion on what we are seeing so far. And based on the evidence we have seen so far, in this very complex case.

 

[Charlot123]

The Facebook searches could be explained away but didn't Lucy say that she can't remember searching most of them? It's been agreed that she searched frequently the parents of all children under her care, but she said when questioned that she can't remember. I don't think she'll take the stand as it's too risky. When questioned, she would have been better off stating that she searches everyone so can't remember any specific names.

What if the opposite is true? She hoped someone would mention the support of NICU and “that wonderful nurse, Lucy”? A childish wish to be recognized… In this case, she’d be ashamed to acknowledge it, so she’d say, I don’t remember. In short, this is not convincing evidence, either. JMO.

 

[notsure]

Evidence of guilt that suits you yes, you are totally entitled to your opinion. But you are speaking factually about there being no evidence, and the note doesnt count. But that's not true, for a lot of people and people in the jury that note will be damning.

Other people they may have a different opinion on what we are seeing so far. And based on the evidence we have seen so far, in this very complex case.

I'm not speaking factually, though. Just a theory.