UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #4

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  • #761
but an air embolism is not a primary dermatological problem so I think it is unlikely (perhaps impossible) that it was ever captured on a photo in the situation that it occurs, or indeed that it would then be published in an atlas of skin conditions

Skin changes are captured in atlases. All witnesses described very characteristic changes. I suspect they are not typical for air embolism alone - JMO - but at least one could imagine what they saw.
 
  • #762
Skin changes are captured in atlases. All witnesses described very characteristic changes. I suspect they are not typical for air embolism alone - JMO - but at least one could imagine what they saw.
Yes but I looked at some dermatological atlases (just to double check my understanding) and they capture skin lesions and diseases (that tend to persist) not fleeting systemic cardiovascular problems that can cause signs of pallor, cyanosis, blanching
 
  • #763
Anyone found a live feed this morning?
 
  • #764
I don't have a medical background so I just googled air embolus. I didn't realise this was the same condition that can affect divers if they ascend too quickly (the bends). I was reading about it on an NHS website and one of the symptoms is bloody froth from the mouth. Didn't one of the babies have blood in the mouth? Is this why they suggest air had been introduced into the baby's blood?

Air or gas embolism.
Changing horses midstream for a minute - didn't Tammy Daybell have pink froth around her mouth?
 
  • #765
  • #766
I watched the 3 part documentary on the Beverley Allitt tapes on sky over the weekend. I noticed that the evidence in those cases was purely circumstantial too. They used the same method of working out which nurse was on duty for all the incidents. The Allitt case isn’t one I’ve delved too far into though so unsure if there was much direct evidence linking her to the murders. Allitt committed her crimes in a much shorter period, she was also charged with less murders and attempted murders than LL.

I was shocked when I realised that if convicted, LL would be even more prolific than Allitt! They suggested her motive was munchausens syndrome by proxy, I wonder if a motive is going to be presented by the prosecution in this trial. I know they don’t need to establish a motive to gain a conviction but it would be interesting to know if there was a ‘reason’, it also helps with understanding LL’s state of mind. Then we have the note, which IMO does not help the defence atall, no matter how they spin it, the words ‘I did this because I’m evil’ are very damning and difficult to explain in a way that makes her seem innocent.

All MOO
 
  • #767
  • #768
Then we have the note, which IMO does not help the defence atall, no matter how they spin it, the words ‘I did this because I’m evil’ are very damning and difficult to explain in a way that makes her seem innocent.
And "on purpose".
 
  • #769
  • #770
  • #771
She went on: 'She suddenly looked very ill. She looked very like her brother had done the night before. She was pale, white, with this purple, blotchy discolouration.

'I just remember thinking 'Oh no, not again'. I'd not seen anything like that before. To see his sister with the same appearance…'

[...]

A medical note of the incident read: 'Shut down, limp, apnoeic…Colour changed rapidly to purple blotchiness with white patches. Started to become bradycardic (slow heart rate).

see link for more - per 10% copyright rule

 
  • #772
Could somebody copy the tweets over here please, I don't have twitter so can't see them all to bring them over.
 
  • #773
  • #774
Could somebody copy the tweets over here please, I don't have twitter so can't see them all to bring them over.
I'm not sure what the rules are regarding copying tweets.
 
  • #775
I'm not sure what the rules are regarding copying tweets.
As long as they are mainstream media journos they can be copied here, in full.
 
  • #776
Tweets from Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue

10.40
I'm back at Manchester Crown Court this morning for the trial of Lucy Letby. Jurors currently hearing from a nurse, who cannot be named for legal reasons, who was on shift the evening Child B fell ill. She recalls that there was no concerns for her health when she began her shift
11.12
The nurse is telling the jury how Child B stopped breathing around 12.30am on a night in June 2015. The baby, which survived, broke out in similar 'whitey purple blotchy' patches to Child A. 'I just thought no, not again', the nurse told the jury
11.22
Notes from that night show how an emergency call went out to doctors. Child B was placed on an infant resuscitator and medicines administered. Within about 10/15mins Child B began to 'improve almost as quickly as she had deteriorated'
11.29
Lucy Letby's defence barrister Ben Myers KC is now questioning the witness. He asks her if there were times when the Countess of Chester, during the period June 2015-June 2016, was 'just too short staffed' 'Yes', the nurse replies.
11.44
Mr Myers is now asking the nurse about the circumstances of Child A's death. He asks whether she had been made aware, when starting her shift, that Child A had been without fluids and medicines for several hours due to various tubes being out of position. 'Possibly', she said
12.18
Circling back to the nurse's description of 'white and purple' patches, Mr Myers points the jury to past statements made by the witness - to police in 2018 - which make no mention of such patches. Asked to explain why they're mentioned now, but not then the nurse cannot explain
12.18
Mr Myers puts it to the witness that these descriptions of patches have come from subsequent discussions with other staff, rather than what was actually seen on Child A
 
  • #777
That's it so far for Dan O'Donoghue's tweets. I guess they stopped for lunch.
 
  • #778
Tweets from Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue

10.40
I'm back at Manchester Crown Court this morning for the trial of Lucy Letby. Jurors currently hearing from a nurse, who cannot be named for legal reasons, who was on shift the evening Child B fell ill. She recalls that there was no concerns for her health when she began her shift
11.12
The nurse is telling the jury how Child B stopped breathing around 12.30am on a night in June 2015. The baby, which survived, broke out in similar 'whitey purple blotchy' patches to Child A. 'I just thought no, not again', the nurse told the jury
11.22
Notes from that night show how an emergency call went out to doctors. Child B was placed on an infant resuscitator and medicines administered. Within about 10/15mins Child B began to 'improve almost as quickly as she had deteriorated'
11.29
Lucy Letby's defence barrister Ben Myers KC is now questioning the witness. He asks her if there were times when the Countess of Chester, during the period June 2015-June 2016, was 'just too short staffed' 'Yes', the nurse replies.
11.44
Mr Myers is now asking the nurse about the circumstances of Child A's death. He asks whether she had been made aware, when starting her shift, that Child A had been without fluids and medicines for several hours due to various tubes being out of position. 'Possibly', she said
12.18
Circling back to the nurse's description of 'white and purple' patches, Mr Myers points the jury to past statements made by the witness - to police in 2018 - which make no mention of such patches. Asked to explain why they're mentioned now, but not then the nurse cannot explain
12.18
Mr Myers puts it to the witness that these descriptions of patches have come from subsequent discussions with other staff, rather than what was actually seen on Child A

Yet again defence Council seem to be trying to show doubt on the blotchy rash existing on Baby A ...yet LL herself said it was there ...how many times now has the defence gone against his clients testimony?
 
  • #779
I watched the 3 part documentary on the Beverley Allitt tapes on sky over the weekend. I noticed that the evidence in those cases was purely circumstantial too.
No, it wasn't purely circumstancial evidence, otherwise they wouldn't have got a conviction from that alone.

One of the detectives working on the Beverley Allitt case, did an interview with The Telegraph in which he said that to prove she did commit these murders they had to find something other than circumstancial evidence, and one of the pieces of evidence that tied her to it, and her alone was that they found empty vials of insulin taken from the hospital at her home.

 
  • #780
Yet again defence Council seem to be trying to show doubt on the blotchy rash existing on Baby A ...yet LL herself said it was there ...how many times now has the defence gone against his clients testimony?
Not only that but this nurse's language is very believable, when she recalls her thinking at the time 'oh no, not again' and 'same appearance' when Child B collapsed. A misremembering of Child A would be unlikely to have detail of her thoughts when responding to Child B. IMO.
 
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