UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #5

[Sweeper2000]

I don't believe it was nothing but her presence that raised the alarm. The sudden collapses were unexpected, and the babies were unusually difficult to resuscitate.

Then there are the dislodged tubes, the bleeding from the mouth, the mottled appearance, failure of alarm to go off, witness statements, texts, observations by parents, inconsistencies in the nurses notes, the FB searches, Letby's inappropriate comments, ignoring the direction of leading nurse to not care for baby C, increase in incidents when moved to day shift, and the post it notes!

I'm sure I'm missing something.

Yeh it’s just I think that if all those things happened and it was done deliberately by someone who was being observed surely there would be a witness to something more than what has been currently offered. I think we have a run down of what the prosecution have to offer with the opening in terms of weird going’s on and in contrast the defences position of “circumstantial evidence” seems more fitting. However I can totally see where you are at.

 

[MsBetsy]

Yeh it’s just I think that if all those things happened and it was done deliberately by someone who was being observed surely there would be a witness to something more than what has been currently offered. I think we have a run down of what the prosecution have to offer with the opening in terms of weird going’s on and in contrast the defences position of “circumstantial evidence” seems more fitting. However I can totally see where you are at.

Yes, if a witness had observed foul play without a doubt, that would be direct evidence.

Circumstantial cases are usually overwhelming, there is so much evidence to consider. It can be very hard to see the whole picture, especially at this early stage of the trial.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I can think of one thing so far maybe two. When LL denied knowing what an embolism was. With everyone else stating it’s such a thing amongst nurses and working practice it’s almost unbelievable that she wouldn’t know right? I would like a bit more detail surrounding that as it’s questionable. I could have sworn it’s a well known thing generally speaking. It’s likely a lie though? Imagine playing dumb to the police “I don’t even know what murder is mr officerrr” bats eyelashes. Interesting.

 

[MsBetsy]

I can think of one thing so far maybe two. When LL denied knowing what an embolism was. With everyone else stating it’s such a thing amongst nurses and working practice it’s almost unbelievable that she wouldn’t know right? I would like a bit more detail surrounding that as it’s questionable. I could have sworn it’s a well known thing generally speaking. It’s likely a lie though? Imagine playing dumb to the police “I don’t even know what murder is mr officerrr” bats eyelashes. Interesting.

Yes, of course she would know. She also denied things she later admitted to- probably when confronted with the evidence.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I can think of one thing so far maybe two. When LL denied knowing what an embolism was. With everyone else stating it’s such a thing amongst nurses and working practice it’s almost unbelievable that she wouldn’t know right? I would like a bit more detail surrounding that as it’s questionable. I could have sworn it’s a well known thing generally speaking. It’s likely a lie though? Imagine playing dumb to the police “I don’t even know what murder is mr officerrr” bats eyelashes. Interesting.

Did she deny knowing this? I've been skimming through the reports so may have missed this. Difficult to believe that a nurse wouldn't know this. Has this been introduced into evidence?

 

[Sweeper2000]

Did she deny knowing this? I've been skimming through the reports so may have missed this. Difficult to believe that a nurse wouldn't know this. Has this been introduced into evidence.

Apparently yes someone upthread mentioned it but I haven’t seen it myself. The quote that is.

Yes, of course she would know. She also denied things she later admitted to- probably when confronted with the evidence.

Yeh I don’t know how much of a hiccup that is tbh. Are you sure? I can’t think of anything else as noticeably out? Apparently allot of the stories have changed including the doctors, I would assume it’s part of the process.

 

[MsBetsy]

Apparently yes someone upthread mentioned it but I haven’t seen it myself. The quote that is.



Yeh I don’t know how much of a hiccup that is tbh. Are you sure? I can’t think of anything else as noticeably out? Apparently allot of the stories have changed including the doctors, I would assume it’s part of the process.

Sure about what?

 

[MsBetsy]

Did she deny knowing this? I've been skimming through the reports so may have missed this. Difficult to believe that a nurse wouldn't know this. Has this been introduced into evidence?

I don't know if she denied knowing what an embolus is. All I recall is that she told police it would be very hard to push air through the line.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Sure about what?

There are other instances of things directly to do with Lucy that are not what one would expect. I know stories change as with everyone seemingly but that’s obviously out.

 

[JosieJo]

Did she deny knowing this? I've been skimming through the reports so may have missed this. Difficult to believe that a nurse wouldn't know this. Has this been introduced into evidence?

2:23pm

She agreed she had been taught to prime lines so air could not get in them.
She denied having done so via Child A's long line or UVC.
She said she didn't know exactly what an air embolism was.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, October 26

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Dotta]

How a highly specialised (posters here claimed so) nurse can't know what air embolism is?

 

[Sweeper2000]

An embolism refers to the actual blockage of a vessel not the presence of air in the blood which might not be the Connection she is making but the thing she was trained not to do?
Did say “exactly what an embolism is”. I knew the presence of air in the blood isn’t good but not sure I could tell you it was an “embolism” if it becomes a problem.

 

[JosieJo]

An embolism refers to the actual blockage of a vessel not the presence of air in the blood which might not be the Connection she is making but the thing she was trained not to do?
Did say “exactly what an embolism is”. I knew the presence of air in the blood isn’t good but not sure I could tell you it was an “embolism” if it becomes a problem.

Any level of qualified nurse would know what an air embolism is let alone a band 6 who had done post graduate training in neonatal nursing imo

 

[Cluedoneit]

Especially one who had watched a documentary on an air embolism in a babies bowel around the time of baby A and B‘s alleged assaults.

Any level of qualified nurse would know what an air embolism is let alone a band 6 who had done post graduate training in neonatal nursing

 

[MsBetsy]

An embolism refers to the actual blockage of a vessel not the presence of air in the blood which might not be the Connection she is making but the thing she was trained not to do?
Did say “exactly what an embolism is”. I knew the presence of air in the blood isn’t good but not sure I could tell you it was an “embolism” if it becomes a problem.

If nurses are taught to be very careful about not letting air through the line, wouldn't they also be taught the reasons why this would be dangerous?

 

[MsBetsy]

Especially one who had watched a documentary on an air embolism in a babies bowel around the time of baby A and B‘s alleged assaults.

And, investigators would have known about the documentary when they asked her those questions, imo.

 

[MsBetsy]

Any level of qualified nurse would know what an air embolism is let alone a band 6 who had done post graduate training in neonatal nursing

I didn't know she had done post graduate training. Don't know how I missed that.

The lead nurse, or maybe the nurse who trained her, did say LL was professional.

 

[Dotta]

An embolism refers to the actual blockage of a vessel not the presence of air in the blood which might not be the Connection she is making but the thing she was trained not to do?
Did say “exactly what an embolism is”. I knew the presence of air in the blood isn’t good but not sure I could tell you it was an “embolism” if it becomes a problem.

As far as I know it is ABC in educational system for nurses.

If not - how scary for potential patients!

But, who knows, maybe somebody played truant during important lectures/classes.
Oh well...

Moo

 

[notsure]

How a highly specialised (posters here claimed so) nurse can't know what air embolism is?

In what context was this?

If under the stress of aggressive interrogation, I wouldn't be surprised if she forgot her own name.

 

[Marantz4250b]

2:23pm

She agreed she had been taught to prime lines so air could not get in them.
She denied having done so via Child A's long line or UVC.
She said she didn't know exactly what an air embolism was.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, October 26

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

That's really weird because lines one and three of that are logically incompatible. If you've been taught the former you know that the reason you're taught it is so that the latter doesn't happen! You cannot not know what an air embolism is in those circumstances.

I do wonder whether this is perhaps a transcription error on the part of the reporter? Do they actually mean that she did not know how and air embolism could happen, for example?