UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #8

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #441
I mean myriads of defending opinions I read based solely on her looks:
"pure, innocent looking, wholesome, angelic, sweet, butter wouldn't..." etc, etc.

She was even compared to "a lamb being led to a slaughter house".

With zero knowledge of facts/evidence.

What do good looks or lack of them have in common with alleged heinous acts?


Nothing IMO.

It is all in the mind.

Moo

'Lookism' I guess - it's a problem for people who have good looks and those who don't as anyone one either side of the fence can attest to.

However, the notion that LL is 'good looking' is not true IMO and is highly debatable and subjective. She sure is a white western woman upper working class / middle class and that has it's own sets of privileges and advantages, however, she sure doesn't seem to be reaping any of those right now.

I think it's usually people's *demeanour* that are in common with heinous acts. Studying for years on end and rocking up to work for long shifts and being a reliable decent all round person that no-one has anything bad to say about is not that usual demeanour. JMO MOO
 
  • #442
'Lookism' I guess - it's a problem for people who have good looks and those who don't as anyone one either side of the fence can attest to.

However, the notion that LL is 'good looking' is not true IMO and is highly debatable and subjective. She sure is a white western woman upper working class / middle class and that has it's own sets of privileges and advantages, however, she sure doesn't seem to be reaping any of those right now.

I think it's usually people's *demeanour* that are in common with heinous acts. Studying for years on end and rocking up to work for long shifts and being a reliable decent all round person that no-one has anything bad to say about is not that usual demeanour. JMO MOO
Talking of "demeanour" -
it reminds me of a humble electrician working looong hours in hospital morgue, I bet never complaining of overtime.
So hard working and dedicated.

Yes, the the "morgue rapist" and "bedsit murderer" - caught, umm..., about 30 years later.

David Fuller.

I believe that we can never know what others are up to judging simply by appearances or even usual behaviour.
After all, "secret life" seems to be the domain of criminals.

Moo
 
Last edited:
  • #443
...

I think it's usually people's *demeanour* that are in common with heinous acts. Studying for years on end and rocking up to work for long shifts and being a reliable decent all round person that no-one has anything bad to say about is not that usual demeanour. JMO MOO


I've seen this reference to LL's "studying for years" more than once now and I really don't get why that would be seen as a reason for her not have commited the alleged crimes. Especially bearing in mind that over 50% of young people in the UK go to university now, and "study for years". That doesn't mean none of them are capable of commiting "henious acts"

And the working long shifts... it's part of the job. It doesn't set her apart from any of the other nurses or doctors working at the hospital . Could none of them be guilty of this kind of crime either, just because they work long shifts? It wouldn't be unprecedented for a nurse or doctor to have worked long shifts, studied for years AND commited horrible crimes against the patients they were supposed to be looking after.

As for her being a decent all round person who nobody has a bad word to say about. We have no idea if that is the case and you could say that a doctor saying that she stood over a baby doing nothing as their oxygen level dropped, and a shift supervisor sayig how they had to repeatedly tell her to leave the room that a recently bereaved family were in, is hardly nobody having a bad word to say about her. We don't tend to hear any negative stories in the press from people who knew the acccused, unless they're found guilty. Maybe there are no negative stories about LL, maybe there are. We don't know at this stage and unless she's found guilty we may never do.
 
  • #444
Presumably this isn't about LL, it's in response to the heinousness of the allegations, and you would feel the same no matter who was in the dock? Or not?

Edited to say just because I don't understand it doesn't mean I don't accept people have different views btw, I am just interested in knowing whether this is anything to do with the person who stands accused, or not.

RSBM.

It is about LL, because how can it not be, when she's the one in the dock?

But if your question relates to my maybe having some entrenched bias - ie. that I'm a subscriber to the element of the media narrative that someone so 'benign', so normal, so very ordinary couldn't possibly be capable of such heinous crimes - then no, it's absolutely not that. I see it's been suggested on here by those who see LL as 100% guilty as a reason why those of us on the fence deny LL's guilt, but it's a really lazy and imo patronising view and not one I have any interest in engaging with.

Her age is an issue for me though. If she's guilty of what she's being accused of, it implies a seriously dark and disturbing side to her, yet it seems to be one that she's managed, up to the age of 25, to completely conceal from her family, friends, colleagues, etc. That seems more than a little unfathomable to me.

Anyway, I'm going to leave it there.

I'm looking forward to hearing the defence arguments.
 
Last edited:
  • #445
RSBM.

It is about LL, because how can it not be, when she's the one in the dock?

But if your question relates to my maybe having some entrenched bias - ie. that I'm a subscriber to the element of the media narrative that someone so 'benign', so normal, so very ordinary couldn't possibly be capable of such heinous crimes - then no, it's absolutely not that.

Her age is an issue for me though. If she's guilty of what she's being accused of, it implies a seriously dark and disturbing side to her, yet it seems to be one that she's managed, up to the age of 25, to completely conceal from her family, friends, colleagues, etc. That seems more than a little unfathomable to me.

Anyway, I'm going to leave it there.

I'm looking forward to hearing the defence arguments.
It's possible, if guilty, that up until June 2015 there was nothing to hide from family and friends other than perhaps dark thoughts that she had never acted upon. Then something changed at that point, maybe, if guilty, the first case was just some weird experimental thing designed to cause a bit more drama on a "boring" shift rather than to cause death and then she discovered that she actually "enjoyed" the death on some level and all that came with it, the impact on others, the rituals that were part of it*, the sympathy she got from others... and then felt a compulsion to recreate it again and again?

I do kind of understand what you've said previously about needing to understand what motive LL would have had to do these awful thingds. When I think of other cases I've followed on here , there was usually some kind of "understandable" motive. The Becky Watts murder- the motive seemed to be a combination of jealousy and a sexual motive. The Helen Bailey murder- the motive seemed to be financial, The Ellie Butler murder where her dad had anger and control issues, and then various other cases where there seemed to be a clear sexual motive. This case is not as clear cut motive-wise.


* ETA by rituals , I mean the memory box, the taking of footprints and photos of the deceased babies, bathing them, changing them into white gowns etc.
 
  • #446
I'm personally in disbelief about LL because she appears so incredibly middle of the road and quite plain, slightly dull, possibly slightly 'frumpy' for her age but not much, and very average indeed whilst also being extremely hard working and having never stood out for anything unusual as far as we know yet. Hardly the profile of a serious offender - is there any precedence for this!?
BBM

I must take issue with your statement that LL never stood out for anything unusual.

There are numerous examples of unusual incidents in the evidence we've heard. I will summarise them and then quote the evidence below this -

1. taking medical notes home and not returning them, including for one baby she wasn't in his nursery that night;
2. not looking after a very sick baby even when specifically asked to;
3. not coming away from a family when asked to by her supervisor;
4. going in nursery 1 and doing meds in there after the shift leader said no to her request;
5. not following consent protocols for hand/footprints and photos and falsely noting that she had followed them;
6. telling a mother she thought her baby was going to die;
7. being inappropriate with grieving parents with a ventilated basket;
8. sending a sympathy card to one family;
9. standing and watching babies who were collapsing and not helping;
10. allegedly telling a mother why her baby was bleeding and telling her to leave;
11. allegedly omitting information from medical notes and inventing an absent doctor's advice;
12. leaving during CPR to sign for medication for a baby in another room;
13. not knowing the weight of a baby she had cared for for 3 12-hour nightshifts;
14. telling a nurse at handover that a baby had vomited and collapsed under the care of a different nurse.

---

QUOTES:



LL's text -
"Feel like I need to be in 1 to overcome it, but [nurse] said no x" “Well that’s how I feel. […] I voiced that so can’t do any more, but people should respect that.” Why don’t you go in 1 for a bit?” LL: "Yeah, I have done a couple of meds in 1."

---

"LL was on duty that night, looking after [a baby referred to as JE] in room 3.The nurse said she had 'concerns over respiratory distress' for that baby at the start of that night shift. He was 'grunting', and such symptoms had not been present prior to that. The nurse asked LL to increase the observations for that baby from two-hourly to one-hourly and call the registrar in. The nurse explains she asked LL to focus back on [JE] in nursery room 3, but LL went into the family room "a few times"."

--

"The nurse recalled asking LL to leave the family [of baby C] to Melanie Taylor. The nurse tells the court LL did not have any designated duties to be in the family room, and told her "more than once" not to be in the family room."

--

LL's nursing note for baby A: "a lock of hair and hand/footprints taken for Child A in accordance with the parents' wishes."

A nurse's note on June 9 records that the family of Child A ... declined to receive a memory box for Child A and photographs

LL's texts 10 June:
The colleague told LL that the parents of baby A had taken a memory box for him. LL: 'Oh good'. 'Hoped they would find comfort'.

LL's nursing note for baby E: "Consent obtained for [hair] and hand/footprints"

Mother of E's testimony - "after he died "Lucy Letby gave us a memory box, which totally surprised me.. it had footprints, a lock of his hair, a candle, a teddy."

--

Baby C's mother, a GP, testified "I didn't really take in what was happening, and didn't take in the severity of the situation, until a nurse came up and asked whether I wanted someone to call a priest. 'I remember feeling quite shocked and I asked if she thought he was going to die. She responded: "Yes, I think so". 'I was surprised that this piece of information came from a nurse rather than a doctor.' She described the nurse as being in her mid to late 20s with a fair complexion and her hair in a ponytail.

Premature baby survived 'injection of air', Lucy Letby trial hears

--
Baby C's father "A nurse he thought may have been Letby came in with a ventilated basket. She allegedly told the couple: 'You've said your goodbyes. Do you want me to put him in here?' 'This comment shocked us,' admitted the father. 'My wife said: 'He's not dead yet'.

--

baby E - The twins' mum testifies "It was a sound that shouldn’t have come from a tiny baby. I can’t explain what it was - it was horrendous. It was more of a scream than a cry". [She] says that her son had blood around his mouth. She says that Lucy Letby was the only person in the room with the babies but was not by the incubator - she was standing at the workstation. Baby E's mum says she asked Lucy Letby what was wrong with her son. Nurse Letby told her that the feed tube from the back of his tube had been rubbing and had caused the blood. Pros: Did Lucy Letby say anything else to you? Mum: She told me to go back to the ward.

--

Upon the designated nurse's return to room 2, Letby was "standing in the doorway of the room" and Letby said Child I "looked pale". The designated nurse switched on the light and saw Child I was "at the point of death". She later recalled the child was breathing about 'once every 20 seconds'. LL made a note at the end of her shift at 8.10am: '[Child I] noted to be pale in cot by myself at 03:20hrs … apnoea alarm in situ and had not sounded. On examination [Child I] centrally white, minimal shallow breaths followed by gasping observed.'

--

"Dr Jayaram decided to check on where Lucy Letby was and where Child K was." "As he walked in, he could see Letby standing over Child K's incubator. He could see Child K's oxygen levels were falling. However, the alarm was not sounding and Lucy Letby was making no effort to help. "Dr Jayaram went straight to treat Child K and found her chest was not moving, he asked Letby if anything had happened to which she replied, “she’s just started deteriorating now”. Dr Jayaram found Child K's breathing tube had been dislodged. Child K was very premature, and had been sedated and inactive. The tube had been secured by tape and attached to Child K's headgear."

--

"CPR was started, but Child E "continued to bleed". Although Letby was participating in the resuscitation of Child E, she co-signed for medication given to another baby in room 4."

--

"Letby is then the designated nurse for Child F on the night shift of August 1, August 2 and August 3, 2015.

Dr Gail Beech's evidence - Child F weighed 1.296kg [2lb 13oz], from a birth weight of 1.434kg [3lb 2oz].

LL's text:
"Something isn’t right if he’s dropping like that with the amount of fluid he’s had and being 1.65kg" [3lb 10oz]

--

"The Band 5 nurse said she gave Baby G a feed of expressed milk from her mother before leaving for a break at 2am on September 7, 2015."

"Shift leader Ailsa Simpson said she was with Letby at the nursing station – directly opposite the high dependency unit – when she heard a projectile vomit at 2.15am."

LL's nursing note written in retrospect at 8.57am [after nursing handover]: The note says "written in retrospect for care given from 2am to present. [Child G] had large projectile milky vomit at 2.15am. Continued to vomit++. 45mls of milk obtained from NG tube with air++.

a statement from a nurse who took over Child G’s care at the end of Letby’s night shift. “Lucy told me (Child G) had vomited while under the care of (another nurse) and then became unwell.

--

LL was asked by police about a handover sheet relating to Child B found at her home address in a search. The sheet showed she had been the designated nurse for two babies in a different room that night.

when Letby's home was searched in 2018, a handwriten log of drugs administered during Child M's collapse was found

In Letby's home search, officers recovered the handover sheet from the morning of June 25 which included Child Q's name. This was a document which should not have left the hospital.

--

In June 2019, she was asked about a sympathy card she had sent to [child I's] parents. She said it was not normal to do so - and this was the only time she had done so. She accepted having an image of that card on her phone.

--

Then there are the strange incidents which seem to implicate LL but might be incorrect - a mother who thought LL was not giving them privacy and had her husband ask her to go away, a doctor performing resuscitation on a baby being handed a phone which was connected to a parent instead of a consultant, a drugs chart which went missing during resuscitation and then turned up later and LL seeming to be acutely conscious of the situation (imo) and asking how the nurse had calculated the drugs. Obsessively (imo) looking up the parents on Facebook, including parents of deceased babies she hadn't ever cared for, months after they had died.


I'm keeping notes and I'll be adding to them as the trial goes on. Quotes taken from the media thread. There are more examples of allegedly "fraudulent" nursing notes, and parents who noted unusual behaviour and nursing notes which didn't reflect what the parent said happened, which I will add when we hear the evidence.
 
  • #447
..
12. leaving during CPR to sign for medication for a baby in another room;
...

I'm keeping notes and I'll be adding to them as the trial goes on. Quotes taken from the media thread. There are more examples of allegedly "fraudulent" nursing notes, and parents who noted unusual behaviour and nursing notes which didn't reflect what the parent said happened, which I will add when we hear the evidence.
I've wondered whether her name being on another baby's notes during CPR was an example of "fraudulent nursing notes" IMO
 
  • #448
It's possible, if guilty, that up until June 2015 there was nothing to hide from family and friends other than perhaps dark thoughts that she had never acted upon. Then something changed at that point, maybe, if guilty, the first case was just some weird experimental thing designed to cause a bit more drama on a "boring" shift rather than to cause death and then she discovered that she actually "enjoyed" the death on some level and all that came with it, the impact on others, the rituals that were part of it*, the sympathy she got from others... and then felt a compulsion to recreate it again and again?

I do kind of understand what you've said previously about needing to understand what motive LL would have had to do these awful thingds. When I think of other cases I've followed on here , there was usually some kind of "understandable" motive. The Becky Watts murder- the motive seemed to be a combination of jealousy and a sexual motive. The Helen Bailey murder- the motive seemed to be financial, The Ellie Butler murder where her dad had anger and control issues, and then various other cases where there seemed to be a clear sexual motive. This case is not as clear cut motive-wise.


* ETA by rituals , I mean the memory box, the taking of footprints and photos of the deceased babies, bathing them, changing them into white gowns etc.
I think the 'motive' is perhaps more of a condition than a motive itself.

Factitious disorder imposed on another (FDIA), also known as fabricated or induced illness by carers (FII), , is a condition in which a CAREGIVER creates the appearance of health problems in another person, typically their child.] This may include injuring the child or altering test samples. The caregiver then presents the person as being sick or injured. Permanent injury or death of the victim may occur as a result of the disorder. The behaviour occurs without a specific benefit to the caregiver.

The cause of FDIA is unknown. The primary motive may be to gain attention and manipulate physicians...

IF she is convicted, it could be possible she is suffering from a disorder, which creates this inexplicable urge.
 
  • #449
I think the 'motive' is perhaps more of a condition than a motive itself.

Factitious disorder imposed on another (FDIA), also known as fabricated or induced illness by carers (FII), , is a condition in which a CAREGIVER creates the appearance of health problems in another person, typically their child.] This may include injuring the child or altering test samples. The caregiver then presents the person as being sick or injured. Permanent injury or death of the victim may occur as a result of the disorder. The behaviour occurs without a specific benefit to the caregiver.

The cause of FDIA is unknown. The primary motive may be to gain attention and manipulate physicians...

IF she is convicted, it could be possible she is suffering from a disorder, which creates this inexplicable urge.


It was called Munchausen's by proxy when I first heard about it on another nursing case years ago. When I first heard that LL had been charged, I did wonder , if guilty, whether it could be something similar. However, having heard the prosecution evidence so far, if guilty,there seems to be specific repeated targeting of certain babies too, rather than it just being a random urge being carried out on just any baby.
 
  • #450
I think the 'motive' is perhaps more of a condition than a motive itself.

Factitious disorder imposed on another (FDIA), also known as fabricated or induced illness by carers (FII), , is a condition in which a CAREGIVER creates the appearance of health problems in another person, typically their child.] This may include injuring the child or altering test samples. The caregiver then presents the person as being sick or injured. Permanent injury or death of the victim may occur as a result of the disorder. The behaviour occurs without a specific benefit to the caregiver.

The cause of FDIA is unknown. The primary motive may be to gain attention and manipulate physicians...

IF she is convicted, it could be possible she is suffering from a disorder, which creates this inexplicable urge.
I think alleged targeting of particular children is something more complex.
Like idee fixe.

Moo
 
  • #451
RSBM.

It is about LL, because how can it not be, when she's the one in the dock?

But if your question relates to my maybe having some entrenched bias - ie. that I'm a subscriber to the element of the media narrative that someone so 'benign', so normal, so very ordinary couldn't possibly be capable of such heinous crimes - then no, it's absolutely not that. I see it's been suggested on here by those who see LL as 100% guilty as a reason why those of us on the fence deny LL's guilt, but it's a really lazy and imo patronising view and not one I have any interest in engaging with.

Her age is an issue for me though. If she's guilty of what she's being accused of, it implies a seriously dark and disturbing side to her, yet it seems to be one that she's managed, up to the age of 25, to completely conceal from her family, friends, colleagues, etc. That seems more than a little unfathomable to me.

Anyway, I'm going to leave it there.

I'm looking forward to hearing the defence arguments.
Re BBM - I am NOT diagnosing her with anything, merely using this as an example, because at no point has anyone involved in the case said she has a mental illness - but some mental illnesses - acute, psychosis kinds of mental illnesses - don't appear until the 20s. That's just an example of one thing that can kind of suddenly manifest. Not everything about a person is apparent during their schooling years. I don't think its impossible for someone to keep their worst parts of themselves under check until they just bust out because of opportunity, or the means suddenly presents itself.

That said, they're keeping a lot of stuff about her under wraps until presented as evidence. Nobody has said anything bad about her beforehand because the media just really wasn't printing anything bad about her to avoid prejudicing the jury. Once she's no longer before a jury, if guilty I believe a lot of things about her will come out. Perhaps a picture will be painted of someone who very much would do something like what she is accused of, IMO. If not-guilty, people will have to be careful what they say because of defamation laws but we still might hear or read some stuff IMO. But pre-trial and during the trial, just no way will any British press publish anything about her other than the most basic, benign stuff.


I mean myriads of defending opinions I read based solely on her looks:
"pure, innocent looking, wholesome, angelic, sweet, butter wouldn't..." etc, etc.

She was even compared to "a lamb being led to a slaughter house".

With zero knowledge of facts/evidence.

What do good looks or lack of them have in common with alleged heinous acts?

Nothing IMO.

It is all in the mind.

Moo

Yes, I've read similar, like on SM. Not here though, I feel like people here are a little more logical. As a participant in the pre-trial threads I feel like most people were just thinking there seemed so little evidence for these extraordinary claims. I don't really recall anyone on WS saying she didn't look like a murderer... I think we're too used to seeing all kinds of perps here on WS. And there's a general awareness here of other nurses and doctors who have mass murdered patients. I'm sure there is a general sense of not wanting it to be true, because who wants to think of any nurse or doctor being a murderer of patients? It's very unsettling, no matter who the nurse or doctor is.
 
  • #452
Baby E's mother's account of what happened to baby E when she came across him bleeding and screaming was not reported to doctors or recorded in his notes.
I find this not only shocking, but very telling.
 
  • #453
RSBM.

It is about LL, because how can it not be, when she's the one in the dock?

But if your question relates to my maybe having some entrenched bias - ie. that I'm a subscriber to the element of the media narrative that someone so 'benign', so normal, so very ordinary couldn't possibly be capable of such heinous crimes - then no, it's absolutely not that. I see it's been suggested on here by those who see LL as 100% guilty as a reason why those of us on the fence deny LL's guilt, but it's a really lazy and imo patronising view and not one I have any interest in engaging with.

Her age is an issue for me though. If she's guilty of what she's being accused of, it implies a seriously dark and disturbing side to her, yet it seems to be one that she's managed, up to the age of 25, to completely conceal from her family, friends, colleagues, etc. That seems more than a little unfathomable to me.

Anyway, I'm going to leave it there.

I'm looking forward to hearing the defence arguments.
BBM

People do this all the time though, look at GSK, look at BTK both of whom managed to kill/attack women and raise a family around it, even being able to stop for long periods of time. Look at Russell Williams who had an entirely secret life that his wife and fellow officers had no idea about, whilst having an amazing career too.

My abuser was a woman, and a teacher in her 40's. She has a husband and children, if I told anybody they would be shocked, as she is so lovely/kind, helpful and respected in her job.

People hide things about themselves all the time, from benign things, to affairs, to secret fetishes, secret families! People can hide parts of themselves if they want to or need to.
 
  • #454
It was called Munchausen's by proxy when I first heard about it on another nursing case years ago. When I first heard that LL had been charged, I did wonder , if guilty, whether it could be something similar. However, having heard the prosecution evidence so far, if guilty,there seems to be specific repeated targeting of certain babies too, rather than it just being a random urge being carried out on just any baby.
I don't believe the random urge is ever just carried out on just any baby. Usually it is carried out upon one's own child, OR a child one is the express caregiver to, in order to gain the sympathy and intense attention of others. That can only happen if there is a strong connection with oneself and the targeted victim.

Something about these particular children made them suitable targets in the perpetrators mind. I am not really sure how that played out---but it may have just been simple things like access, and which room and which opportunities presented themselves?
 
  • #455
looks like we may be back to proper updates today

 
  • #456

The case is now in its ninth week before the jury, and today (Wednesday, December 7) was due to hear further evidence in the case of Child G, a baby girl born weighing 1lb 2oz at Wirral's Arrowe Park Hospital in May 2015, before later being transferred to the Countess of Chester Hospital.

Letby, 32, allegedly tried to murder the youngster hours after she helped put up a party banner at the Countess of Chester Hospital's neonatal unit to celebrate the girl turning 100 days old.


The defendant is accused of overfeeding the baby with milk through a nasogastric tube (NGT) and/or injecting air into the tube.

Prosecutors say she struck after 2am on September 7, 2015 while a colleague designated to look after the infant, referred to as Child G, was on an hour-long break.

Prosecutors say the defendant made two more attempts to murder Child G on September 21.

In his opening statement to the jury, Ben Myers KC, defending, said Letby did not do anything to contribute to the health problems of Child G, who he said was “extremely premature” and “high risk”.
Here is where we were when the trial was postponed due to juror's illness:


The case is now in its ninth week before the jury, and today (Wednesday, December 7) was due to hear further evidence in the case of Child G, a baby girl born weighing 1lb 2oz at Wirral's Arrowe Park Hospital in May 2015, before later being transferred to the Countess of Chester Hospital.

Letby, 32, allegedly tried to murder the youngster hours after she helped put up a party banner at the Countess of Chester Hospital's neonatal unit to celebrate the girl turning 100 days old.


The defendant is accused of overfeeding the baby with milk through a nasogastric tube (NGT) and/or injecting air into the tube.
 
  • #457
snippets from prosecution opening:
The doctor saw "fresh blood" in Child N's throat, which the prosecution say was the same seen in Childs C, E and G.


Child G - attempted murder allegations (three attempts)

Mr Johnson said Child G, born in May 2015 at Arrowe Park Hospital, was a baby girl and born very premature, weighing 1lb and 2oz.

Child G suffered bleeding on her lungs and had nine blood transfusions, with a number of 'septic' or 'suspected septic' episodes requiring antibiotics, but improved and was transferred to the Countess of Chester Hospital's neonatal unit in August, and was clinically stable, being fed expressed breast milk.

On the night in September, Child G was in nursery 2, with a designated nurse (not Letby). There were seven babies in the unit, with five nursing staff.

Letby's assigned baby that night was in nursery 1.

It was a milestone night for Child G and nurses marked the occasion with a small celebration.

Child G was being fed every three hours alternately by bottle and naso-gastral tube.

At 2am, a feed had shown minimal aspirated of partially digested milk. The nurse took her scheduled one-hour break.

"Nothing is recorded on who was asked to keep an eye on Child G," Mr Johnson said.

At 2.15am, the shift leader said she was sat with Lucy Leader when she heard Child G vomiting, along with Child G's monitor alarm going off.

They ran into her nursery. Child G had vomited violently and suffered a collapse.

The prosecution said medical records suggest the shift leader nurse's memory of being with Lucy Letby for a period of time before this event cannot be accurate.

The prosecution say despite Child G's stomach being 'pretty much empty' prior to her feed, 45mls of milk was aspirated from her NGT.

But, the prosecution say, 45mls of milk had been administered for her feed, which then did not explain what accounted for the vomit.

Subsequent x-rays showed air in the abdomen and intestines.

Child G suffered further deteriorations. During intubation, a doctor noticed bloodstained fluid from the trachea - something the prosecution say was consistent with that seen in other collapses in the case so far.

At 6.05am, following a further desaturation, 100mls of air was aspirated from the NG tube. When the tube was removed, the registrar noted thick secretions in her mouth "and a blood clot at the end of her breathing tube". There were also signs of infection.

Child G was transferred to Arrowe Park, before returning to the Countess neonatal unit just over a week later.

During that time, Child G "recovered remarkably".

Five days after her return to the Countess, Child G was due to receive her immunisations, such was her improved condition.

A team of nurses came on the day shift that day, Lucy Letby being among them. Letby was Child G's designated nurse that day.

Child G was fed with 40ml via a NG tube by Letby at 9.15am. At about 10.20am, Child G had projectile vomited twice and went apnoeic for several seconds, the court is told. Child G's blood saturations fell to 30%. The same problem she had faced two weeks prior.

A nurse took over the care from Letby at 11.30am, as Letby was looking after two other children in room 4.

The nurse took all the observations and noted Child G was connected to a 'Masimo monitor' - which measures oxygen saturations and heart rate levels. It is a device which stays on and cannot be turned off by a baby.

At 3.30pm a consultant doctor was called to cannulate Child G. Privacy screens were erected and Child G was on a trolley, with the monitor still attached.

The nurse went to care for another baby.

The consultant doctor said he "could not recall" if Child G's monitoring equipment was switched off during the cannula fitting, but "it is his practice to transfer the sensor from one limb to another or if temporary detachment is required to reattach the monitor as soon as possible."

He added if Child G was not stable he would not have left her.

After the doctors had gone, the nurse responded to Lucy Letby's shout for help. When she attended, Child G's monitor had been switched off (power was off). Child G was struggling to breathe. Letby was giving ventilation breaths.

Child G responded to treatment

In a text sent by Letby to a colleague, she wrote Child G: "...looked rubbish when I took over this morning then she vomited at 9 and I got her screened … mum said she hasn’t been herself for a couple of days”.

But the prosecution said Child G had been due to have her immunisations, something which would not have been contemplated if Child G had not been well.

The prosecution say Child G had vomited because she had been given excessive milk and air.

A subsequent MRI scan revealed neurological changes and, in August 2016, it was revealed Child G had suffered "irreversible brain damage".

The overfeeding "doesn't happen by accident," Mr Johnson told the court.

He added similar cases will be heard with other babies.

Mr Johnson: "Someone had switched off the monitor when Child G collapsed, and she was 'discovered' by Lucy Letby".

In police interview, Letby said she remembered the nurse had been on her break when the incident happened with Child G in nursery 2. She could not remember who had been assigned to look after her.

Letby suggested the excess air in Child G after the vomiting was the result of some sort of infection, or as a consequence of the vomiting.

She said she had withdrawn the 45mls of milk after that episode, and air had come with it, and she had seen Child G vomiting.

She said she did not know why she had gone into the room, but it was possible it was as a result of hearing Child G vomiting.

Letby 'vaguely' recalled the day Child G vomited after her return to the hospital, accepting she had been the designated nurse. She had no recollection of Child G vomiting.

In a subsequent interview, Letby accepted there were only two alternatives to the first vomiting incident - that Child G had been fed far more than should have been, or she had not digested her earlier feed.

She accepted that the clear inference to be drawn was that Child G had been given excess milk and air via the NGT. She denied responsibility for either of those eventualities.

For the second incident, Letby denied either over-feeding or injecting air into Child G's stomach.

In Novemver 2020, Letby denied to police that she had switched off the Masimo monitor.

She was asked about Facebook searches carried done on the day of the second vomiting incident that Letby looked up the parents of Child G. She said "she had no recollection of them".

 
  • #458
10:32am

Dr Stephen Breary is being called to give evidence in the case of Child G.

10:33am

A reminder that none of the children can be identified in this case due to reporting restrictions.
A naming system is in place, for Child A-Q.


 
  • #459
10:36am

Dr Breary confirms he has reviewed his clinical notes from the time of the care for Child G, from August-September 2015.
He said by the time of the ward round, Child G was improving, having been at the Countess of Chester Hospital for a week [having been transferred from Arrowe Park Hospital], with main concerns being respiratory support.
He recalls prescribing medication to help with Child G's bowels.
On September 2, on the second ward round, there was a "pattern of improvement" and "everything was moving in the right direction".

10:40am

Dr Breary's clinical note for 11am at Sunday, September 6, 2015, is presented to the court. He was the consultant for that weekend and carried out a check of Child G as part of a routine ward round.
Child G was 97 days old at this point. she had been born at a gestational term of 23 weeks and six days.
She was receiving feeds, including expressed breast milk, via the naso-gastric tube and bottles.
"Clearly she was making progress with that...and her oxygen requirement was coming down."
The court hears Child G was 'quite stable' at this point.

10:46am

Child G was 'still a little under' her target weight by this stage, at 1.985kg, but this was "normal" for pre-term babies.
Child G was on Gaviscon medication to help with the stomach lining, and other medication to help lower oxygen support requirements.
Child G's gut was "clearly working normal", the chest was 'clear' and the abdomen 'soft'.
Child G was considered to be at high risk of a chronic lung condition, as would be the case with many pre-term babies, and the plan would have been for monthly check-ups and a vaccine to help treat this.


 
  • #460
10:51am

Dr Breary then confirms he was called in, as the on-call consultant, at about 3.30am on September 7.
Dr Alison Ventress had called him in, and was in the process of intubating Child G upon Dr Breary's arrival.
Dr Ventress noted Child G: "Had very laerge projectile vomit (reaching chair next to cot and canopy). Abdo[men] appeared discoloured purple and distended."
Dr Breary said he had not witnessed this sort of projectile vomiting before, in a pre-term baby "who has been stable for so long", without a suitable diagnosis of a condition which could cause projectile vomiting.
Child G deteriorated and Dr Ventress intubated the baby girl.
Dr Breary confirms he was called in from home.

10:54am

He said Child G initially appeared she had stabilised after intubation, with 'normal' gas reading.
He was then called to the pre-term delivery that Dr Ventress had been called away to, for a delivery at 4am.
He said he was satisfied Dr Ventress had the situation under control, and there were satisfactory readings, so was called over to the delivery.
The blood gas reading was, on Dr Ventress's note, 'good', 30 minutes after intubation.
The ventilation status was also 'satisfactory'.


 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
119
Guests online
3,373
Total visitors
3,492

Forum statistics

Threads
632,624
Messages
18,629,228
Members
243,222
Latest member
Wiggins
Back
Top