UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #9

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #461
I've been so busy this week ..can anyone explain the baptism disagreement? Was LL involved? ..and the bitchiness comment? Thanks

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the baptism disagreement occur before the specific collapses that form the basis of the charges? I suppose the dispute goes to how subjectively sick the treating professionals felt her to be at the time.
 
  • #462
Hope not too busy. The disagreement about the baptism relates to whether or not it was appropriate timing. I would guess it could be seen by the parents that staff were kind of preparing for the worst And certain staff thought it unnecessary at that time To give them that idea. I think.

the bitchiness is a question mark to us with no references to the actual comments made. The context is comments made to LL seniors.

“Letby responds to Ms Griffiths: "Thank you. That's really nice to hear as I gather you are aware of some of the not so positive comments that have been made recently regarding my role which I have found quite upsetting.

"Our job is a pleasure to do & just hope I do the best for the babies & their Family. Thank you to you & [another colleague] for your support X".


Letby messages her colleague: "Im still frustrated/upset with what's gone on but don't think such rubbish nights & being tired help"

Her colleague responds: "Good reply as it's important they know about the bitchiness which is all it is. Yes re tired..."

The colleague added: "Anyway. You're a star. You e done yourself proud. You've given positive memories to the family whatever the outcome. Let's hope they can tease her in a few yrs about her 'attention seeking' ways. Sleep well. Xx”





I would agree but I’m not sure something written in a time of great duress should be taken without a pinch of salt.
Thanks
 
  • #463
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the baptism disagreement occur before the specific collapses that form the basis of the charges? I suppose the dispute goes to how subjectively sick the treating professionals felt her to be at the time.
Personally, I’m not actually sure. It appears though, that from the conversations between the unit manager and colleagues, LL was involved in some way. Evidence heard today reports her as saying she was frustrated and the text exchange seems to relate to this, following on with “bitchiness” and things blown up out of proportion.

It’s not clear *when* however, just that she appears involved in it in some way. IMO
 
  • #464
A bit more info from today (includes info re how desaturations in babies like Baby H are "not uncommon" but cardiac arrests are "not all that common"):

25th September

Giving evidence at Manchester Crown Court, registrar Dr Alison Ventress said she received an urgent bleep call from nurses in the early hours of September 25. She said she was informed Child H had breathing difficulties, poor chest movement and poor colour.Child H’s oxygen levels plummeted shortly after her arrival and she called for a consultant to assist, Dr Ventress told the court.

More desaturations followed as Child H received a series of invasive needle treatments for a tension pneumothorax – an emergency situation where air accumulates between the chest wall and lung which causes it to collapse. Dr Ventress agreed with Simon Driver, prosecuting, that it had been a “rocky night” for Child H.

Mr Driver asked: “Were the causes for those problems identified?” Dr Ventress replied: “Yes, a tension pneumothorax is something that does happen. You never find an exact cause but for a premature baby needing breathing support it is a known complication of that.”

26 September

On the following night shift, she noted a “cluster” of desaturations in a two-hour period. She said she later found a chest drain – a tube inserted to drain air – was in a sub-optimal position and it had “almost fallen out”. Dr Ventress noted at 1am on September 26 that a combination of Child H needing more respiratory support and a drop in her blood pressure led her to think she may have another tension pneumothorax.

At 3.24am, she received a crash call from the nurses in the neo-natal unit, the court heard. Child H had desaturated to a “level of real concern”, she said, and her heart rate had fallen below 100 beats per minute.
She said she was informed that “no trigger was identified”. Chest compressions commenced at 3.26am when her oxygen levels and heart rate continued to drop, the court was told. Child H was given several doses of adrenaline before compressions stopped at 03.46am when her heart rate rose to a safe level.

Dr Ventress said: “We followed the cardiac arrest protocol and she recovered, but we never found a reason why she got into that state.” ...
Mr Driver asked the witness: “You confirmed desaturations are not uncommon with babies experiencing the sort of problems Child H was experiencing. Are arrests as common as desaturations?Dr Ventress said: “No. Arrests are not all that common. I’m not saying they are impossible, but they are not all that common.”


 
  • #465
The defence are making mincemeat of the witnesses today.

I think it just is a very weak case. One of the weakest, if not the weakest of the lot.


It's hard to say how it really went today based on what info we got, but I think the prosecution need to show why the collapses LL is accused of causing were different to the other desats that Baby H was experiencing AND exactly how she was alleged to have caused them.

The former was addressed a little in this exchange where the difference appears to be that Baby H suffered cardiac arrests only in the collapses LL is accused of causing:

Mr Driver asked the witness: “You confirmed desaturations are not uncommon with babies experiencing the sort of problems Child H was experiencing. Are arrests as common as desaturations?” Dr Ventress said: “No. Arrests are not all that common. I’m not saying they are impossible, but they are not all that common.”

I don't think the latter has been addressed at all. Or not reported on if it has. But then we haven't heard all the evidence for Baby H yet so maybe that's about to be explained . Instead we're hearing about some disagreement about baptisms that doesn't seem to be majorly important, and it's not clear if LL was even involved in the disagreement!

 
  • #466
Preliminary Timeline for Baby H. (babies G & I included for proximity)



21 Sep 2015, Mon

8am – LL’s day shift – designated baby G

2 x allegations of attempted murder of Baby G, at 10.15am and 3.30pm

LL searched baby G’s parents on Facebook. A few minutes later LL looked at the Facebook of the mother of E&F and another mother of a baby listed in the charges.



22 Sep 2015, Tue

Baby H, a girl, was born at 34 weeks, weighing 5lb 2oz.

6.40pm – H was admitted to the Neonatal Unit, Room 1. She had breathing difficulties shortly after birth. Independent experts say there was an "unacceptable delay" intubating her and administering a protein which helps the lungs, which the prosecution say means the case is complicated by "sub-optimal treatment" at the hospital. Additionally, H "was put on a ventilator, she was not paralysed; she was also left with butterfly needles in her chest for prolonged periods which may have punctured her lung tissues and contributed to further punctured lungs." (Opening Speech)


23 Sep 2015, Wed

LL texts a colleague she's rearranging her shifts, and will be working with her.
LL also texts her mother she's working that night as an extra shift.
LL messages another colleague to say how busy the unit is likely to be that night
.


8pm – LL’s nightshift 23rd/24th.

H deteriorated on the night of September 23 and required ventilator support and intubation, followed later by oxygen support. H responded to intervening treatment, but desaturations were "frequent" and "significant". Mr Johnson said all but two events could be explained medically and responded to with routine resuscitative measures. The two events - in the early hours of September 26 and 27, were "uncharacteristic" and required CPR. (Opening Speech)


24 Sep 2015, Thu

Early morning - Dr Alison Ventress testifies she will always remember Child H as she was the first baby she performed a pneumothorax aspiration on (needle in the chest to remove air). Child H had poor blood gas and had a profound desaturation down to 'the 50%s and needed bagging with neopuff'. H slowly recovered and was placed on Bipap (a small machine that pushes air through a mask and into child's airway and lungs). Child H's breathing 'remained gasping pattern'. Dr Ventress says this is 'more serious than grunting' and agrees that it was 'indicative of a serious respiratory problem'

8am – end of LL’s nightshift 23rd/24th.

LL messaged a colleague: "It's completely unsafe ☹ "

LL messaged a friend: “I won’t be able to make it to hula hoop – work mad so doing extra nights x

LL messaged colleague Sophie Ellis: “Oh Soph it was pretty bad – 18 babies, intubating on handover & baby with sugar of 0.1! On again tonight tomorrow & Sat. Not had chance to see Corrie, was it good? Xx



8pm – LL’s nightshift 24th/25th LL designated nurse for H.


25 Sep 2015, Fri

1.14am - Notes from the early hours show another desaturation. At 1:14am Dr Ventress was 'bleeped urgently' as Child H had 'poor chest movement and poor colour'. She was placed on neopuff. She noted that Child H's chest drain, which had been fitted as she had a collapsed lung, was 'no longer functioning, blood-stained fluid leaking from drain'. Dr Ventress says that is 'not uncommon' with chest drains. She says fluid was not indicative of any infection.

1.25am – Dr Ventress’s notes show that at 1.25am Child H had another profound desaturation. Oxygen levels down to 30%. Dr Ventress performed an emergency pneumothorax aspiration, 70ml of air was aspirated – “quite a lot for a baby that size”.

1.40am – X-ray taken.

1.45am – Dr Ventress - Child H's sats improved after the procedure, but there was a further desaturation at 1.45am. Second aspiration was then needed and another butterfly needle inserted into lower chest, this again worked and drained a further 60mls of air - again sats improved.

2.29am – X-ray taken. H diagnosed with punctured left lung. Dr Ravi Jayaram records a desaturation for H and a test was carried out for a collapsed lung.

3am - Dr Alison Ventress – H’s sats remained in the stable range until 3am when she had another profound desaturation, her blood oxygen fell to 26%. 85mls of air aspirated and her sats again improved. A plan was drawn up to insert a further chest drain.

3.07am
LL texted a colleague: "Can I go now??"
Colleague: "Yes. Let's run off together and rescue [colleague] too."


5am – LL’s nursing note recorded the "profound desaturation", with the fingers on the right hand noted to be white, along with a white patch on the abdomen.

8am – end of LL’s nightshift 24th/25th

Time?

LL messaged colleague Ailsa Simpson: “Sorry didn’t reply last night – you’ve certainly picked right week to be on hols! Haha. …Hope you are lucky with Glastonbury. I got tickets for Ellie at Echo xx

Afternoon - The intelligence analyst talks through descriptions of the care being given to H throughout the day on September 25, which includes another desaturation in the afternoon.

4.23pm - The cardiac arrest team is beeped at 4.23pm to attend the neonatal unit. (electronic evidence)


8pm – LL’s nightshift 25th/26th – designated baby H, room 1. No other babies are in room 1. four babies (including G) in room 2, four in room 3 and four in room 4.

Starting about 9.50pm – H had ‘several episodes of desaturation’ according to Dr Ventress’s clinical note at 11.50pm.

11.05pm - A blood transfusion for H begins at 11.05pm.

11.30pm – LL’s nursing note written retrospectively at 4.14am records a desaturation for H. Observations are being taken more regularly due to the blood transfusion.

11.50pm – Dr Ventress records at 23.50 that there had been 'several episodes of desaturation in the previous two hours'.


26 Sep 2015, Sat

Around 1am – Dr Ventress - Child H's ventilation had to be increased, Dr V again suspected a pneumothorax. She called a consultant for further advice.

1.30am – LL administered a morphine bolus to H at 1.30am.

2am - the blood transfusion is recorded by LL as being completed at 2am.

2.15am - Consultant Dr John Gibbs records chest x-ray showed a re-accumulation of H's left-sided pneumothorax (a collapsed lung). A further, third chest drain was inserted to relieve the pressure.

2.50am - LL administered a dose of saline, to run for 20 mins. (Opening Speech)

3.05am - a separate, handwritten paper record shows the blood transfusion having been completed at 3.05am. This separate record is not signed by anyone.

Time? 3.05am? - LL records: 'poor blood gas and 100% oxygen requirement' and a third chest drain was inserted.

3.22am – LL’s nursing note: 'profound desaturation and colour loss to 30%, good chest movement and air entry, colour change on CO2 detector, neopuff commenced in 100% oxygen and help requested. Serous fluid +++ from all 3 drains, became bradycardic. Drs crash called and resus commenced as documented'. 1st attempted murder charge. (Attending doctor concluded the episode was due to hypoxia (shortage of oxygen) - opening speech)

3.24am - An intensive care chart for H, initialled by LL, records: 'blood complete 0324 - RESUS'. Dr Alison Ventress confirms in a clinical record she was crash called at 3.24am as H "had desat requiring bagging...Sats 60s then heart rate down to less than 100 so nurses crash called, wasn't being handled at all, no trigger identified.'
Upon her arrival, H was 'being bagged via ETT, good chest movement, capnograph positive, sats 60%, heart rate 70 down to 50 [beats per minute]'. A test for a collapsed lung was carried out and air was removed. Dr Ventress testifies that while desaturations are not uncommon with babies experiencing these sorts of [lung] problems, arrests are not common.

3.26am - Dr Ventress testimony - CPR was commenced at 03.26 and three doses of adrenaline were administered between 03.30 and 03.39.

3.30am – Consultant Dr John Gibbs was called from home.

3.36am – Consultant Dr John Gibbs arrived at the neonatal unit. He saw 'CPR in progress', and H had no pulse when chest compressions stopped. Medications were administered to H.

3.46am - LL's nursing note records, for 3.46am: 'x3 doses adrenaline and x1 dose atropine given...chest compressions stopped at 0346, heart rate 180, saturations >90, placed back on to a ventilator, 30% oxygen'. Dr Ventress testimony - At 03.46 chest compressions were stopped as Child H's heart rate had improved and her colour started improving - treatment was successful.

Early hours – mother describes being woken and told to go to the unit right away. She found them resuscitating baby H.

4.14am – LL wrote up her retrospective note for the 11.30pm desaturation.

4.28am - LL records a family communication: 'Parents visiting at start of shift. Updated on condition and advised to try and rest overnight. Midwife contacted during resus to [help take mum to the unit].'

5.21am – LL noted a conversation between herself, the attending doctor and H’s parents. Parents were concerned about the possibility of brain damage, and H remained poorly and could relapse. Consultant Dr John Gibbs offered a blessing to be administered and the parents accepted the offer. H was then blessed with parents and family members present.

7am - LL recorded 'good blood gas at 0700 - ventilation reduced to 22/4, and rate reduced...in 26% oxygen. [H] appears settled.'

8am – end of LL’s night shift 25th/26th


Just before 9am

Deputy manager Yvonne Griffiths messaged LL: Hope you have a good sleep. I just want to commend you for all your hard work these last few nights. You composed yourself very well during a stressful situation. It’s nice to see your confidence grow as you advance through your career.”

LL showed this message to a colleague and asked her how she should reply. Her colleague expressed surprise. The conversation alluded to a disagreement among the neonatal unit staff regarding a Christening for one of the babies in the unit.

LL to YG: “Thank you. That’s really nice to hear as I gather you are aware of some of the not so positive comments that have been made recently regarding my role which I have found quite upsetting. Our job is a pleasure to do and just hope I do the best for the babies and their family. Thank you to you & [another colleague] for your support x.”

LL to colleague: “I’m still frustrated/upset with what’s gone on but don’t think such rubbish nights & being tired help.”

Colleague: “Good reply as it’s important they know about the bitchiness which is all it is. Yes re tired Anyway you’re a star. You’ve done yourself proud. You’ve given positive memories to the family whatever the outcome. Let’s hope they can tease her in a few yrs about her ‘attention seeking’ ways. Sleep well. xx Always a pleasure to work with you even if we’re a ‘[s***] magnet’ team.


Day - Medical notes record H's parents were present as treatment continued for the baby girl, with further medication administered during the day of September 26.


8pm – LL’s night shift 26th/27th Shelley Tomlins was the designated nurse for H in room 1 - the only baby in that room that night. LL was the designated nurse for two babies in room two, with another nurse, Christopher Booth, looking after G in room 2. Four babies, including baby I, were being looked after in room 3, and four babies were being looked after in room 4.

8.49pm - There is a profound desaturation for H, with a crash call made at 8.49pm. Dr Matthew Neame recorded attending the neonatal unit.

9.31pm
LL, on shift, messaged a colleague to give an update on H's progress throughout the day.

LL messaged Dr Alison Ventress a couple of moments later: [H] had a stable day, and took out the original drain at 8pm, 'just blocked tube, lots of secretions!'.

LL messaged her colleague: “I've been helping Shelley [Tomlins, designated nurse for H that night] so least still involved but haven't got the responsibility”.

Dr Alison Ventress to LL: "Never known a baby block tubes so often!! Glad she's had a stable day..."

Just before 11pm
LL texts a colleague: “I forgot to record strictly tonight x BBC iPlayer doesn’t work on my iPad.”


11pm – H’s mother says she and the father left the unit at about 11pm to go to sleep in a room nearby, but they later received a knock at the door with an almost identical scene as the previous night.


27 Sep 2015, Sun

12.45-12.46am - LL is recorded as being on Facebook at 12.45am and 12.46am, liking a post and photo.

12.55am - H has a 'profound desaturation' timed at 12.55am. Nurse Shelley Tomlins recorded: 'profound desaturation to 40% despite equal bilateral entry and positive capnography'. Staff were crash called to the neonatal unit room 1. [LL’s signatures on medicine administrations, per opening speech]

1.07am - Dr Matthew Neame reintubated H and chest compressions were started at 1.07am. H's heart rate dropped to 40bpm. Adrenaline was administered.

1.13am - Chest compressions were discontinued at 1.13am. A request was made to transfer H to Arrowe Park Hospital. "No explanation" could be found for why H had had such a profound desaturation.

3.30am - H had a further desaturation at 3.30am, and medication was administered. [LL was treating & gave the history to the attending doctor despite not being H’s designated nurse. Pink-tinged secretions around mouth - Opening Speech]. 2nd attempted murder charge.

4.10am - The transport team arrived at 4.10am

4.45am - H was handed to the transport incubator at 4.45am and the handover was completed at 5.20am.

6.10am - H was cared for at Arrowe Park Hospital, returning to CoCH on Sep 30th.

8am – end of LL’s nightshift 26th/27th.


Just after 11am

LL messaged Dr Alison Ventress on Facebook, and another colleague, what had happened to H that night.

2nd colleague: “There’s something odd with [H]”
LL: “Hopefully she’ll sort herself out.”

LL to Dr AV: “[H] had resus again but not as bad/long-lasting as with us. Went to Arrowe.”
Dr.AV: “Oh crap. Do they know why she did it this time? I’m glad she’s been transferred! How are you? Really rough set of nights for you. Xx
LL: “No did exactly what she did for us, desat then didn’t pick up & dropped heartrate. Looked fine again after though but made decision to transfer which I think was sensible! X

LL to 2nd colleague: “None of us had breaks what with [H], transfer and then this. It’s all just so rubbish lately isn’t it. And always seems to happen at night when less people. I think everyone is pretty burnt out and unit been awful. Yvonne working way more than she should.”

LL & 2nd colleague then discuss about looking “at a change of unit”.

LL: “I still think about the women’s, if only it were closer, would make decision much easier.”

1.11pm
DrAV: "Try to think of all the babies you’ve saved and have gone home happily with their parents. You’re a fab nurse. Hope you manage some sleep xx
LL: “Thanks Ali Xx



30 Sep 2015, Wed

8am LL working long day-shift – designated nurse for baby I in room 3.

12.15pm
- H returned to the CoCH.

Afternoon – 1st alleged attempted murder of baby I.

8pm
End of LL’s day-shift


5 Oct 2015, Mon

1.15-1.18am - LL searched on Facebook for the mother of H, as well as the parents of E&F, and I, in the space of three minutes.


9 Oct 2015, Fri

5.05pm - H was discharged

--

Source for additional text info Hereford nurse murder trial: baby ‘improved dramatically’ after hospital move

Lucy Letby: Nurse 'commended' for work during 'stressful situation'
 
Last edited:
  • #467
LL remains as elusive as ever and will likely continue to do so since it seems highly unlikely we'll ever get to hear from her.
We're no closer to understanding or knowing who (and what) she is now than we were at the beginning of this trial.

It's frustrating and fascinating in equal measure, that her character, the essence of her, continues to be so difficult to read/pin down. I can't think of any case I've ever come across/followed where the defendant remains so absent.

Grateful thanks as ever to all who're doing the heavy 'updates' lifting. Sterling and much appreciated work.
One might think it would be the prosecutions job to paint Lucy in the light they think is fitting. No character descriptions on their part at all suggesting they couldn’t find anything besides the instances of off behaviour given Already None of which are conclusively negative. Like LL and the crib Which sounds more awkward than negative. I think no character description on the part of the prosecution suggests by omission that it was positive. We have heard from the defence and fellow colleagues though And that seems positive. I’m confident the prosecution would include any instances of negative behaviour by LL, any history of lies, backstabbing etc it’s another thing notable by its absence.

i‘m no expert but looking at her communications I would suggest she seems socially and team orientated, very work focused, doesn’t seem to be inclined towards conflict, doesn’t seem to be deceitful but that’s hard to tell certainly nothing obvious atm, no instances of a subtly manipulative nature, and seemingly not prone to extremes of emotion, no outbursts or the like, very very little to suggest selfishness and or self centredness, she does though IMO display a lack of emotional tact That could be for a few reasons, one being neuroticism As a trait supported by the nature of the note, she is affected by the social pressure of the moment so to speak. Her police interviews show nothing particularly notable either and they would be better than me at gauging it But again if they did pick up on anything it hasn’t been mentioned.

in fewer words, work and practically orientated individual, seemingly normal emotionality and level of conscientiousness, Likes to be involved both socially and practically, few if any particularly negative personality traits Aside from neuroticism. Haven’t heard anything of her overstepping boundaries indeed she seems to try to approach them with caution. not a single insult or display of arrogance no mockery, doesn’t seem to display vanity, nothing even in private coms to suggest coldness, her managers words seem to suggest a lack of confidence again suggesting neuroticism as a trait but again that could be due to age, really nothing atm that is way out there or indicative of a negative personality. The only discernible negative traits seem to be a lack of emotional tact which points away from a cunning and manipulative individual. Maybe not so fewer words.

there is some potential examples of LL being emotionally distant and unengaged with the parents of the babies in interactions though. But it’s difficult to tell the reasons for this. Could be a lack of confidence compensated for by trying to appear professional, could be trying to maintain professional standards and distance, could be for fear of emotional attachment or it could be indifference to people seen as fleetingly present in her life.

her behaviour, use of language and interactive style all seem normal and consistent across time as well.

that’s all just my opinion though.

there are a few questions though. Her seemingly not remembering the fb searches or what an air embolism is.
 
Last edited:
  • #468
Preliminary Timeline for Baby H. (babies G & I included for proximity)



21 Sep 2015, Mon

8am – LL’s day shift – designated baby G

2 x allegations of attempted murder of Baby G, at 10.15am and 3.30pm

LL searched baby G’s parents on Facebook. A few minutes later LL looked at the Facebook of the mother of E&F and another mother of a baby listed in the charges.



22 Sep 2015, Tue

Baby H, a girl, was born at 34 weeks, weighing 5lb 2oz.

6.40pm – H was admitted to the Neonatal Unit, Room 1. She had breathing difficulties shortly after birth. Independent experts say there was an "unacceptable delay" intubating her and administering a protein which helps the lungs, which the prosecution say means the case is complicated by "sub-optimal treatment" at the hospital. Additionally, H "was put on a ventilator, she was not paralysed; she was also left with butterfly needles in her chest for prolonged periods which may have punctured her lung tissues and contributed to further punctured lungs." (Opening Speech)


23 Sep 2015, Wed

LL texts a colleague she's rearranging her shifts, and will be working with her.
LL also texts her mother she's working that night as an extra shift.
LL messages another colleague to say how busy the unit is likely to be that night
.


8pm – LL’s nightshift 23rd/24th.

H deteriorated on the night of September 23 and required ventilator support and intubation, followed later by oxygen support. H responded to intervening treatment, but desaturations were "frequent" and "significant". Mr Johnson said all but two events could be explained medically and responded to with routine resuscitative measures. The two events - in the early hours of September 26 and 27, were "uncharacteristic" and required CPR. (Opening Speech)


24 Sep 2015, Thu

Early morning - Dr Alison Ventress testifies she will always remember Child H as she was the first baby she performed a pneumothorax aspiration on (needle in the chest to remove air). Child H had poor blood gas and had a profound desaturation down to 'the 50%s and needed bagging with neopuff'. H slowly recovered and was placed on Bipap (a small machine that pushes air through a mask and into child's airway and lungs). Child H's breathing 'remained gasping pattern'. Dr Ventress says this is 'more serious than grunting' and agrees that it was 'indicative of a serious respiratory problem'

8am – end of LL’s nightshift 23rd/24th.

LL messaged a colleague: "It's completely unsafe ☹ "

LL messaged a friend: “I won’t be able to make it to hula hoop – work mad so doing extra nights x

LL messaged colleague Sophie Ellis: “Oh Soph it was pretty bad – 18 babies, intubating on handover & baby with sugar of 0.1! On again tonight tomorrow & Sat. Not had chance to see Corrie, was it good? Xx



8pm – LL’s nightshift 24th/25th LL designated nurse for H.


25 Sep 2015, Fri

1.14am - Notes from the early hours show another desaturation. At 1:14am Dr Ventress was 'bleeped urgently' as Child H had 'poor chest movement and poor colour'. She was placed on neopuff. She noted that Child H's chest drain, which had been fitted as she had a collapsed lung, was 'no longer functioning, blood-stained fluid leaking from drain'. Dr Ventress says that is 'not uncommon' with chest drains. She says fluid was not indicative of any infection.

1.25am – Dr Ventress’s notes show that at 1.25am Child H had another profound desaturation. Oxygen levels down to 30%. Dr Ventress performed an emergency pneumothorax aspiration, 70ml of air was aspirated – “quite a lot for a baby that size”.

1.40am – X-ray taken.

1.45am – Dr Ventress - Child H's sats improved after the procedure, but there was a further desaturation at 1.45am. Second aspiration was then needed and another butterfly needle inserted into lower chest, this again worked and drained a further 60mls of air - again sats improved.

2.29am – X-ray taken. H diagnosed with punctured left lung. Dr Ravi Jayaram records a desaturation for H and a test was carried out for a collapsed lung.

3am - Dr Alison Ventress – H’s sats remained in the stable range until 3am when she had another profound desaturation, her blood oxygen fell to 26%. 85mls of air aspirated and her sats again improved. A plan was drawn up to insert a further chest drain.

3.07am
LL texted a colleague: "Can I go now??"
Colleague: "Yes. Let's run off together and rescue [colleague] too."


5am – LL’s nursing note recorded the "profound desaturation", with the fingers on the right hand noted to be white, along with a white patch on the abdomen.

8am – end of LL’s nightshift 24th/25th

Time?

LL messaged colleague Ailsa Simpson: “Sorry didn’t reply last night – you’ve certainly picked right week to be on hols! Haha. …Hope you are lucky with Glastonbury. I got tickets for Ellie at Echo xx

Afternoon - The intelligence analyst talks through descriptions of the care being given to H throughout the day on September 25, which includes another desaturation in the afternoon.

4.23pm - The cardiac arrest team is beeped at 4.23pm to attend the neonatal unit. (electronic evidence)


8pm – LL’s nightshift 25th/26th – designated baby H, room 1. No other babies are in room 1. four babies (including G) in room 2, four in room 3 and four in room 4.

Starting about 9.50pm – H had ‘several episodes of desaturation’ according to Dr Ventress’s clinical note at 11.50pm.

11.05pm - A blood transfusion for H begins at 11.05pm.

11.30pm – LL’s nursing note written retrospectively at 4.14am records a desaturation for H. Observations are being taken more regularly due to the blood transfusion.

11.50pm – Dr Ventress records at 23.50 that there had been 'several episodes of desaturation in the previous two hours'.


26 Sep 2015, Sat

Around 1am – Dr Ventress - Child H's ventilation had to be increased, Dr V again suspected a pneumothorax. She called a consultant for further advice.

1.30am – LL administered a morphine bolus to H at 1.30am.

2am - the blood transfusion is recorded by LL as being completed at 2am.

2.15am - Consultant Dr John Gibbs records chest x-ray showed a re-accumulation of H's left-sided pneumothorax (a collapsed lung). A further, third chest drain was inserted to relieve the pressure.

2.50am - LL administered a dose of saline, to run for 20 mins. (Opening Speech)

3.05am - a separate, handwritten paper record shows the blood transfusion having been completed at 3.05am. This separate record is not signed by anyone.

Time? 3.05am? - LL records: 'poor blood gas and 100% oxygen requirement' and a third chest drain was inserted.

3.22am – LL’s nursing note: 'profound desaturation and colour loss to 30%, good chest movement and air entry, colour change on CO2 detector, neopuff commenced in 100% oxygen and help requested. Serous fluid +++ from all 3 drains, became bradycardic. Drs crash called and resus commenced as documented'. 1st attempted murder charge. (Attending doctor concluded the episode was due to hypoxia (shortage of oxygen) - opening speech)

3.24am - An intensive care chart for H, initialled by LL, records: 'blood complete 0324 - RESUS'. Dr Alison Ventress confirms in a clinical record she was crash called at 3.24am as H "had desat requiring bagging...Sats 60s then heart rate down to less than 100 so nurses crash called, wasn't being handled at all, no trigger identified.'
Upon her arrival, H was 'being bagged via ETT, good chest movement, capnograph positive, sats 60%, heart rate 70 down to 50 [beats per minute]'. A test for a collapsed lung was carried out and air was removed. Dr Ventress testifies that while desaturations are not uncommon with babies experiencing these sorts of [lung] problems, arrests are not common.

3.26am - Dr Ventress testimony - CPR was commenced at 03.26 and three doses of adrenaline were administered between 03.30 and 03.39.

3.30am – Consultant Dr John Gibbs was called from home.

3.36am – Consultant Dr John Gibbs arrived at the neonatal unit. He saw 'CPR in progress', and H had no pulse when chest compressions stopped. Medications were administered to H.

3.46am - LL's nursing note records, for 3.46am: 'x3 doses adrenaline and x1 dose atropine given...chest compressions stopped at 0346, heart rate 180, saturations >90, placed back on to a ventilator, 30% oxygen'. Dr Ventress testimony - At 03.46 chest compressions were stopped as Child H's heart rate had improved and her colour started improving - treatment was successful.

Early hours – mother describes being woken and told to go to the unit right away. She found them resuscitating baby H.

4.14am – LL wrote up her retrospective note for the 11.30pm desaturation.

4.28am - LL records a family communication: 'Parents visiting at start of shift. Updated on condition and advised to try and rest overnight. Midwife contacted during resus to [help take mum to the unit].'

5.21am – LL noted a conversation between herself, the attending doctor and H’s parents. Parents were concerned about the possibility of brain damage, and H remained poorly and could relapse. Consultant Dr John Gibbs offered a blessing to be administered and the parents accepted the offer. H was then blessed with parents and family members present.

7am - LL recorded 'good blood gas at 0700 - ventilation reduced to 22/4, and rate reduced...in 26% oxygen. [H] appears settled.'

8am – end of LL’s night shift 25th/26th


Just before 9am

Deputy manager Yvonne Griffiths messaged LL: Hope you have a good sleep. I just want to commend you for all your hard work these last few nights. You composed yourself very well during a stressful situation. It’s nice to see your confidence grow as you advance through your career.”

LL showed this message to a colleague and asked her how she should reply. Her colleague expressed surprise. The conversation alluded to a disagreement among the neonatal unit staff regarding a Christening for one of the babies in the unit.

LL to YG: “Thank you. That’s really nice to hear as I gather you are aware of some of the not so positive comments that have been made recently regarding my role which I have found quite upsetting. Our job is a pleasure to do and just hope I do the best for the babies and their family. Thank you to you & [another colleague] for your support x.”

LL to colleague: “I’m still frustrated/upset with what’s gone on but don’t think such rubbish nights & being tired help.”

Colleague: “Good reply as it’s important they know about the bitchiness which is all it is. Yes re tired Anyway you’re a star. You’ve done yourself proud. You’ve given positive memories to the family whatever the outcome. Let’s hope they can tease her in a few yrs about her ‘attention seeking’ ways. Sleep well. xx Always a pleasure to work with you even if we’re a ‘[s***] magnet’ team.


Day - Medical notes record H's parents were present as treatment continued for the baby girl, with further medication administered during the day of September 26.


8pm – LL’s night shift 26th/27th Shelley Tomlins was the designated nurse for H in room 1 - the only baby in that room that night. LL was the designated nurse for two babies in room two, with another nurse, Christopher Booth, looking after G in room 2. Four babies, including baby I, were being looked after in room 3, and four babies were being looked after in room 4.

8.49pm - There is a profound desaturation for H, with a crash call made at 8.49pm. Dr Matthew Neame recorded attending the neonatal unit.

9.31pm
LL, on shift, messaged a colleague to give an update on H's progress throughout the day.

LL messaged Dr Alison Ventress a couple of moments later: [H] had a stable day, and took out the original drain at 8pm, 'just blocked tube, lots of secretions!'.

LL messaged her colleague: “I've been helping Shelley [Tomlins, designated nurse for H that night] so least still involved but haven't got the responsibility”.

Dr Alison Ventress to LL: "Never known a baby block tubes so often!! Glad she's had a stable day..."

Just before 11pm
LL texts a colleague: “I forgot to record strictly tonight x BBC iPlayer doesn’t work on my iPad.”


11pm – H’s mother says she and the father left the unit at about 11pm to go to sleep in a room nearby, but they later received a knock at the door with an almost identical scene as the previous night.


27 Sep 2015, Sun

12.45-12.46am - LL is recorded as being on Facebook at 12.45am and 12.46am, liking a post and photo.

12.55am - H has a 'profound desaturation' timed at 12.55am. Nurse Shelley Tomlins recorded: 'profound desaturation to 40% despite equal bilateral entry and positive capnography'. Staff were crash called to the neonatal unit room 1. [LL’s signatures on medicine administrations, per opening speech]

1.07am - Dr Matthew Neame reintubated H and chest compressions were started at 1.07am. H's heart rate dropped to 40bpm. Adrenaline was administered.

1.13am - Chest compressions were discontinued at 1.13am. A request was made to transfer H to Arrowe Park Hospital. "No explanation" could be found for why H had had such a profound desaturation.

3.30am - H had a further desaturation at 3.30am, and medication was administered. [LL was treating & gave the history to the attending doctor despite not being H’s designated nurse. Pink-tinged secretions around mouth - Opening Speech]. 2nd attempted murder charge.

4.10am - The transport team arrived at 4.10am

4.45am - H was handed to the transport incubator at 4.45am and the handover was completed at 5.20am.

6.10am - H was cared for at Arrowe Park Hospital, returning to CoCH on Sep 30th.

8am – end of LL’s nightshift 26th/27th.


Just after 11am

LL messaged Dr Alison Ventress on Facebook, and another colleague, what had happened to H that night.

2nd colleague: “There’s something odd with [H]”
LL: “Hopefully she’ll sort herself out.”

LL to Dr AV: “[H] had resus again but not as bad/long-lasting as with us. Went to Arrowe.”
Dr.AV: “Oh crap. Do they know why she did it this time? I’m glad she’s been transferred! How are you? Really rough set of nights for you. Xx
LL: “No did exactly what she did for us, desat then didn’t pick up & dropped heartrate. Looked fine again after though but made decision to transfer which I think was sensible! X

LL to 2nd colleague: “None of us had breaks what with [H], transfer and then this. It’s all just so rubbish lately isn’t it. And always seems to happen at night when less people. I think everyone is pretty burnt out and unit been awful. Yvonne working way more than she should.”

LL & 2nd colleague then discuss about looking “at a change of unit”.

LL: “I still think about the women’s, if only it were closer, would make decision much easier.”

1.11pm
DrAV: "Try to think of all the babies you’ve saved and have gone home happily with their parents. You’re a fab nurse. Hope you manage some sleep xx
LL: “Thanks Ali Xx



30 Sep 2015, Wed

8am LL working long day-shift – designated nurse for baby I in room 3.

12.15pm
- H returned to the CoCH.

Afternoon – 1st alleged attempted murder of baby I.

8pm
End of LL’s day-shift


5 Oct 2015, Mon

1.15-1.18am - LL searched on Facebook for the mother of H, as well as the parents of E&F, and I, in the space of three minutes.


9 Oct 2015, Fri

5.05pm - H was discharged

--

Source for additional text info Hereford nurse murder trial: baby ‘improved dramatically’ after hospital move

Lucy Letby: Nurse 'commended' for work during 'stressful situation'


Massive thanks as Baby H has not been an easy one to follow at all!

One part that jumps out to me is that they (prosecution) are saying Baby H's collapses were more severe and she went into cardiac arrest on the two occasions where LL has been charged with attempted murder. However on the day shift on the 25th September (when LL wasn't on shift) it mentions Baby H had a desaturation in the afternoon and that the cardiac arrest team were beeped:

"The intelligence analyst talks through descriptions of the care being given to H throughout the day on September 25, which includes another desaturation in the afternoon.
4.23pm - The cardiac arrest team is beeped at 4.23pm to attend the neonatal unit. (electronic evidence)
"

Is that implying that Baby H was in cardiac arrest then too or do they send the cardiac arrest team for desats without cardiac arrest too?
 
  • #469
LL messaged a colleague: "It's completely unsafe ☹ "
Sent 24 Sep, before first alleged attempted murder 26 Sep and second alleged attempted murder 27 Sep.
LL to 2nd colleague: “None of us had breaks what with [H], transfer and then this. It’s all just so rubbish lately isn’t it. And always seems to happen at night when less people. I think everyone is pretty burnt out and unit been awful. Yvonne working way more than she should.”
Sent 27 Sep, after sending multiple texts including about Strictly Come Dancing, and being on Facebook during the shift, and clearly not busy attending to her own babies since she was in the wrong room getting involved with H at a time when there are no emergency events in H's records, and still in there involved with H at 3am.

MOO
 
  • #470
Massive thanks as Baby H has not been an easy one to follow at all!

One part that jumps out to me is that they (prosecution) are saying Baby H's collapses were more severe and she went into cardiac arrest on the two occasions where LL has been charged with attempted murder. However on the day shift on the 25th September (when LL wasn't on shift) it mentions Baby H had a desaturation in the afternoon and that the cardiac arrest team were beeped:

"The intelligence analyst talks through descriptions of the care being given to H throughout the day on September 25, which includes another desaturation in the afternoon.
4.23pm - The cardiac arrest team is beeped at 4.23pm to attend the neonatal unit. (electronic evidence)
"

Is that implying that Baby H was in cardiac arrest then too or do they send the cardiac arrest team for desats without cardiac arrest too?
It's another case of unclear reporting. I'm assuming the crash team might have been sent for baby H that day, but it might not have been. Or perhaps they weren't needed in the end? It doesn't say she went into cardiac arrest, so who knows. Hopefully it will become clear.
 
  • #471
But like you mention; if she (or other staff) are burnt out etc, why volunteer for further shifts. We’ve seen in evidence other colleagues state they needed a break, and whilst she acknowledges burn out and tiredness, why (even between everything going on with baby G and H at that time and previous deaths), would she then do another extra shift on 23 September aswell.
There are numerous perfectly reasonable explanations; she's committed to her profession; she doesn't like letting people down; she's easily persuaded into things; perhaps she feels that she doesn't have much else going on and doesn't want to be alone - there's also the financial element too, of course.

I've known many people who will literally work themselves to an unhealthy degree for many or all of the reasons above.
 
  • #472
I read it as: although she is being questioned/investigated, this is an internal dialogue with herself, thinking something like;
Police forget the slander, victimisation and discrimination -towards me.
Perhaps this would seem a likely thing for her to think given the conversations where other colleagues were not happy with her role, her performance?

We do get a sense that whilst people were noticing things, stating things were wrong/off with these nights and the babies, there was “bitchiness”, she appears unhappy at the unit. Things being said about or maybe even directly to her? Is some of it all genuine work-place bitchiness, OR are people genuinely raising concern and it’s gotten bitchy. I can see how some might portray that as slander in some way.

Could the note therefore imply whilst they police are investigating these cases against HER, that she’s stating they seem to forget the negative things she’s experienced by THEM (some of her colleagues)?
I’d be interested to hear more of the conversation between the baptism and the other colleagues. If it was blown up out of proportion, it does make you wonder (aside from the unit being busy that night), what was actually said or at least by whom.
JMO


See I was thinking, IF guilty, it might have been more like LL thinking "omg there's now a possible police investigation... forget claiming slander, victiminisation and discrimination ( by the hospital) ...its much more serious than that now... they must have more evidence than just here-say and bitchiness"

The baptism thing I really can't see the importance of at this stage. The reports read like it was another nurse disagreeing with the doctor so I'm not sure where LL fits in. Was she the nurse? Was she agreeing with the nurse? Was she agreeing with the doctor? Who knows?
 
  • #473
As far as I know we don't know the date it was written. It mentions "police investigation" so I'd assume it was written when she found out there could be or would be one, but we donlt know when she found that out either.
I can't make out what the word after police investigation is . Is it "forget" "forged" ?
As mentioned previously, I think it's highly unlikely that this was written on any one specific date. There just too many differing emotions and subjects for it to have been.

It also reads like parts of it are references to possible conversations with other people are legal representatives. "I did this...because I'm Evil" could be what she's heard people are saying as it still reads logically if you put "They say..." in front of it.

It's just another thing about this case that just seems so out of line with every other similar case of serial killing (not that I'm saying that she's guilty). Has any serial killer ever written anything like this? I can't think of any, tbh.

Just my opinion.
 
  • #474
There are numerous perfectly reasonable explanations; she's committed to her profession; she doesn't like letting people down; she's easily persuaded into things; perhaps she feels that she doesn't have much else going on and doesn't want to be alone - there's also the financial element too, of course.

I've known many people who will literally work themselves to an unhealthy degree for many or all of the reasons above.

Yeah that's fair enough but if that's the case then don't moan about being tired when you've agreed to do it. I'm being flippant obviously, just because I don't think it's a major detail in the case. It was just something that I commented on originally and Sundial responded to.
 
  • #475
im looking at that conversation and drawing conclusions in my own mind at least. I would agree that most people seem to be noticing something isn’t right or at least in line with what is normal. I’m specifically looking at how she mentions a desire for a potential transfer. It’s really interesting to me, one would think if she knew she had been doing things on that level of wrong, with many people including herself noticing things being at least unusual, the bitchiness of recent times and her own apparent aversion to the unit would create a precedent for that transfer with location not being an issue really Or offset by the positives of not being on the NNU. That conversation seems very genuine to me. She doesn’t seem to display any particular interest in being on the NNU which I would assume to be a prerequisite for her if she was actually attacking babies as alleged. Ofc it could be lies but so could everything she says.
I agree. One would think that any serial killer would be desperate to stay in what is clearly a chaotic environment. It surely makes it much more difficult to spot someone killing patients if everyone is burned out through overwork? Also, if she was simply incompetent or negligent, and knew it, wouldn't you just want to stay in order to hide your failings?
 
  • #476
Yeh that’s it, the first sentence makes more sense Contextually. It also matches the way she writes the letter t in other words on the note. The entire note doesn’t make sense really, in my mind can be explained by someone outpouring nonsensical emotionally driven thoughts onto paper.
I think that's precisely what that note is.
 
  • #477
As mentioned previously, I think it's highly unlikely that this was written on any one specific date. There just too many differing emotions and subjects for it to have been.

It also reads like parts of it are references to possible conversations with other people are legal representatives. "I did this...because I'm Evil" could be what she's heard people are saying as it still reads logically if you put "They say..." in front of it.

It's just another thing about this case that just seems so out of line with every other similar case of serial killing (not that I'm saying that she's guilty). Has any serial killer ever written anything like this? I can't think of any, tbh.

Just my opinion.

Yeah I don't think it was written in one go. Possibly at different points in the same day as I'm not sure you'd keep writing on the same little post it note over several days. Or maybe written whilst having a drink and getting progressively more "emotional" (if I'm reading it in the right order). She starts off saying she's done nothing wrong and ends up saying she did it and that she's evil and thinking about the consequences of being found guilty- no chance to have a family etc.
 
  • #478
As mentioned previously, I think it's highly unlikely that this was written on any one specific date. There just too many differing emotions and subjects for it to have been.

It also reads like parts of it are references to possible conversations with other people are legal representatives. "I did this...because I'm Evil" could be what she's heard people are saying as it still reads logically if you put "They say..." in front of it.

It's just another thing about this case that just seems so out of line with every other similar case of serial killing (not that I'm saying that she's guilty). Has any serial killer ever written anything like this? I can't think of any, tbh.

Just my opinion.
"Has any serial killer ever written anything like this? I can't think of any, tbh."


  • Some serial killers keep written records of their deeds, due to a pathological need for control or desire to relive their worst acts.
  • Killers who logged their crimes included Dennis Rader, the “B.T.K.” serial killer, and Melvin Rees, aka "The Sex Beast."
  • Serial killers who keep records of their crimes are often compelled to do so, despite the increased risk of being found out.
 
  • #479
The baptism by staff was a policy the consultants agreed upon following the death of baby C.


"The debrief noted that Child C's parents were advised that "further life support measures" were "futile".
Dr Gibbs said the notes said for future situations, rather than prolonging a baby's life with 'token resuscitation efforts' for a priest/vicar to arrive, it would be better for a nursing member of staff to carry out the baptism duties themselves. This would be in the event of following prolonged, and ultimately failed, resuscitation efforts which left a baby with no realistic prospect of survival.
Dr Gibbs said he would have discussed this with the rest of his consultant colleagues.
Dr Gibbs said he wants to clarify that he is not blaming the parents for requesting to allow Child C to be baptised, and the wait that followed for a priest and vicar to arrive.
He said the problem was that Child C's heart and lungs restarted following the token efforts to resuscitate, and he could not think why that was the case.
"Whatever catastrophic event that had happened [to Child C] had reversed, or begun to reverse.
"I don't understand that from a natural disease process."
He said it was right the parents requested for a priest to arrive for baptism. He adds the difficulty was that Child C's heart and breathing restarted following that."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, October 31
 
  • #480
I agree. One would think that any serial killer would be desperate to stay in what is clearly a chaotic environment. It surely makes it much more difficult to spot someone killing patients if everyone is burned out through overwork? Also, if she was simply incompetent or negligent, and knew it, wouldn't you just want to stay in order to hide your failings?
Well if she's guilty it would be apparent that she was tricking everyone into believing all sorts of things that weren't true, with all of her texts. It's another form of manipulation of her environment to avoid detection, as is making alleged false nursing notes and allegedly lying about things like the mother's visit, the doctor's advice, and claiming to have found the monitor off, that would give her away. JMO
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
131
Guests online
2,610
Total visitors
2,741

Forum statistics

Threads
632,625
Messages
18,629,287
Members
243,225
Latest member
2co
Back
Top