UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 8 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 5 hung re attempted #38

[Marantz4250b]

She said herself on the stand that there wasn’t any staffing issues iirc ?
It would seem that Op Hummingbird recruiting again for 2027.
Not looking great for the worlds unluckiest nurse.

As I think you said a few days ago, "we're never leaving this thread"!

 

[WaneLyrical]

Tbh I was just thinking if it was then the little available could not be diverted to monitor a qualified nurse. We never heard it was drastically understaffed either. Totally with u though, would I be correct in thinking that generally it's a soft job mostly? So routine feeds, monitoring, maybe changing nappies just routine cares ? If it is then yeh she's git full access and no need for oversight.

We’re talking about babies the size of kittens here, whose respiratory systems and major organs are completely underdeveloped. It’s not maybe changing nappies. It is a high pressure, highly skilled job. It’s one on one, constant monitoring, checking their temp and vitals, checking their gases, checking their lines, checking their tubes, checking their ventilation, feeding them, giving them fluids, administering their medication, cleaning them, supporting the family, documenting everything, and yes obviously changing their nappy. That’s constant monitoring, constant hands in incubator. These nurses are replacing a human placenta.

Even for the babies who required that one on one care, most of time at COCH they didn’t get it. Often nurses would have more than one baby in nursery 1, or worse: babies spread across different rooms. Since every medication requires two nurses, they were also often pulled away from their babies to assist others, or to cover for everyone else’s break time, when really they should only be leaving their own babies to assist with emergencies.

While this kind of staffing might be “normal” in modern day NHS, it is nowhere close to optimal. If a baby is supposed to be receiving 100% of a nurse’s time, it might end up with only 25% depending on the circumstances of the shift. COCH had too many babies, too many one on one babies, and too few staff. There are days on that chart where there were only 4 nurses on shift, each of which will require a break, and we know the unit was housing up to 20 babies at a time (which might be fine if they’re all room 4 babies, but we know that wasn’t the case). When you’re operating a skeleton staff like that, alongside out-of-their-depth doctors who were intimidated by the NNU and preferred to be in the paediatric ward, then when things go downhill, they go downhill fast.

So yes, no space for oversight. But these nurses are absolutely run ragged, juggling and reprioritising constantly, not just hanging around to do the odd feed or nappy.

 

[marynnu]

We’re talking about babies the size of kittens here, whose respiratory systems and major organs are completely underdeveloped. It’s not maybe changing nappies. It is a high pressure, highly skilled job. It’s one on one, constant monitoring, checking their temp and vitals, checking their gases, checking their lines, checking their tubes, checking their ventilation, feeding them, giving them fluids, administering their medication, cleaning them, supporting the family, documenting everything, and yes obviously changing their nappy. That’s constant monitoring, constant hands in incubator. These nurses are replacing a human placenta.

Even for the babies who required that one on one care, most of time at COCH they didn’t get it. Often nurses would have more than one baby in nursery 1, or worse: babies spread across different rooms. Since every medication requires two nurses, they were also often pulled away from their babies to assist others, or to cover for everyone else’s break time, when really they should only be leaving their own babies to assist with emergencies.

While this kind of staffing might be “normal” in modern day NHS, it is nowhere close to optimal. If a baby is supposed to be receiving 100% of a nurse’s time, it might end up with only 25% depending on the circumstances of the shift. COCH had too many babies, too many one on one babies, and too few staff. There are days on that chart where there were only 4 nurses on shift, each of which will require a break, and we know the unit was housing up to 20 babies at a time (which might be fine if they’re all room 4 babies, but we know that wasn’t the case). When you’re operating a skeleton staff like that, alongside out-of-their-depth doctors who were intimidated by the NNU and preferred to be in the paediatric ward, then when things go downhill, they go downhill fast.

So yes, no space for oversight. But these nurses are absolutely run ragged, juggling and reprioritising constantly, not just hanging around to do the odd feed or nappy.

That's sort of right, though very few babies are that small or sick & need 1:1 care. And of course none of that explains what happened at Chester.

 

[Tortoise]

There are days on that chart where there were only 4 nurses on shift, each of which will require a break, and we know the unit was housing up to 20 babies at a time (which might be fine if they’re all room 4 babies, but we know that wasn’t the case).

RSBM

Which dates are you referring to, and how many babies were on the unit on those specific dates?

I can't see any dates where there were only four nurses on duty.

Post in thread 'UK - Lucy Letby Trial - Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION*'

May 1, 2023

Dan O'Donoghue

@MrDanDonoghue
·
Apr 28

This document, released by Cheshire Police, has been shown to the jury at Lucy Letby's murder trial on several occasions. Down the left axis is the children in this case, along the top is staff on the neonatal unit - the crosses indicate presence at a 'suspicious event'



Some names have been redacted for legal reasons and a court order prohibits the identification of the children

• Tortoise

• 

 

[marynnu]

can't see any dates where there were only four nurses on duty.

Me neither.

 

[Sweeper2000]

We’re talking about babies the size of kittens here, whose respiratory systems and major organs are completely underdeveloped. It’s not maybe changing nappies. It is a high pressure, highly skilled job. It’s one on one, constant monitoring, checking their temp and vitals, checking their gases, checking their lines, checking their tubes, checking their ventilation, feeding them, giving them fluids, administering their medication, cleaning them, supporting the family, documenting everything, and yes obviously changing their nappy. That’s constant monitoring, constant hands in incubator. These nurses are replacing a human placenta.

Even for the babies who required that one on one care, most of time at COCH they didn’t get it. Often nurses would have more than one baby in nursery 1, or worse: babies spread across different rooms. Since every medication requires two nurses, they were also often pulled away from their babies to assist others, or to cover for everyone else’s break time, when really they should only be leaving their own babies to assist with emergencies.

While this kind of staffing might be “normal” in modern day NHS, it is nowhere close to optimal. If a baby is supposed to be receiving 100% of a nurse’s time, it might end up with only 25% depending on the circumstances of the shift. COCH had too many babies, too many one on one babies, and too few staff. There are days on that chart where there were only 4 nurses on shift, each of which will require a break, and we know the unit was housing up to 20 babies at a time (which might be fine if they’re all room 4 babies, but we know that wasn’t the case). When you’re operating a skeleton staff like that, alongside out-of-their-depth doctors who were intimidated by the NNU and preferred to be in the paediatric ward, then when things go downhill, they go downhill fast.

So yes, no space for oversight. But these nurses are absolutely run ragged, juggling and reprioritising constantly, not just hanging around to do the odd feed or nappy.

That really wasn't what I meant at all. I wouldn't think any of them were just hanging around, they will be busy but if the job and place is managed correctly then it is OK. Conversely any emergency would be hard as there is little room for error in essence its unforgiving. As an example I would consider bricklaying a soft job although its hard work.

I got the impression most of these babies were mostly self sufficient thus not needing 1 on 1 care which was a factor in why the collapses and deaths were considered unusual. Along with them not responding to treatment they way they should have when in emergency, I'd be surprised if anyone thought that those emergencies were not hard to be in as again very little room for error. This is jmo and I do believe suffering is relative.

As another example, no nurse would rather be in a situation where a baby is in dire straights, they would of course rather be in a ideal world where it doesn't happen. However evidence has been presented that letby preferred those situations which would be irregular and the situation didn't warrant the flippancy we have heard of which again is highly irregular.

All said with the greatest respect and imo.