UK UK - Penny Bell, 43, Ealing, London, 6 June 1991

[tes1984]

I'm more concerned with why she draws out the cash on Monday, but is still carrying it around with her, in her handbag, the following evening.
Is she waiting for a sudden call to go and meet someone?

If you watch the Crimewatch reconstruction, Penny tells her daughter and the nanny that there's a lot of money in the envelope. Is it just me, or does the way the scene is filmed make the nanny look a bit guilty?

 

[davidt]

I'm more concerned with why she draws out the cash on Monday, but is still carrying it around with her, in her handbag, the following evening.
Is she waiting for a sudden call to go and meet someone?

If you watch the Crimewatch reconstruction, Penny tells her daughter and the nanny that there's a lot of money in the envelope. Is it just me, or does the way the scene is filmed make the nanny look a bit guilty?

I thought it showed Penny as being somewhat careless or not bothered about people knowing. Also means if the reconstruction is correct the nanny may have mentioned it to others or Penny may have done so herself. Did find it a little concerning just how blasé she was about money. It's almost asking for trouble. All those builders around the place as well and she has a bag with an envelope full of cash sticking out the top of it which apparently is hanging around for a couple of days. Bear in mind it's the equivalent of around £20k today.

 

[tes1984]

It's almost asking for trouble. All those builders around the place as well and she has a bag with an envelope full of cash sticking out the top of it which apparently is hanging around for a couple of days. Bear in mind it's the equivalent of around £20k today.

She seems to have the cash with her (in her handbag) at work on Monday and Tuesday. By the time she gets home from work, the builders have left, so no reason for any of them to have seen it.

Perhaps she is just worried that the money might be stolen if she leaves it at home (with loads of builders wandering about the house) but that still doesn't explain why she needs the cash in the first place.

 

[davidt]

She seems to have the cash with her (in her handbag) at work on Monday and Tuesday. By the time she gets home from work, the builders have left, so no reason for any of them to have seen it.

Perhaps she is just worried that the money might be stolen if she leaves it at home (with loads of builders wandering about the house) but that still doesn't explain why she needs the cash in the first place.

I've missed that bit tbh. Is there some sort of evidence she was carrying it around with her. I know she withdrew it on the 3rd and was killed on the 6th. If she did have it in her handbag for a couple of days I wonder how many may have known?

 

[tes1984]

The Crimewatch reconstruction shows the envelope of cash sticking out of Penny's handbag, when she arrives home on Tuesday at 6pm.

When she is shown leaving the house at Thursday at 8.50am, the handbag is closed and the envelope is no longer visible.

 

[dotr]

The Crimewatch reconstruction shows the envelope of cash sticking out of Penny's handbag, when she arrives home on Tuesday at 6pm.

When she is shown leaving the house at Thursday at 8.50am, the handbag is closed and the envelope is no longer visible.

Video featuring PB's case starts approx. @ 16:30 envelope with cash sticking out from purse, approx. @ 17:55
"Don't touch that it has got a lot of money in there"

 

[davidt]

The Crimewatch reconstruction shows the envelope of cash sticking out of Penny's handbag, when she arrives home on Tuesday at 6pm.

When she is shown leaving the house at Thursday at 8.50am, the handbag is closed and the envelope is no longer visible.

So would it be fair to say we have no certainty where the money was after Tuesday and before Thursday when she was killed? She may have had it in her bag or it may have been kept elsewhere? We also can't be sure who else may have known she had the money at the time. And yes if she did carry it with her all the time was it because she might need it at any time. You wouldn't think anyone would want to carry around such a sum needlessly.

 

[davidt]

Video featuring PB's case starts approx. @ 16:30 envelope with cash sticking out from purse, approx. @ 17:55
"Don't touch that it has got a lot of money in there"
View attachment 549316

Yes, when I first watched the reconstruction and also on subsequent viewings this bit really did stand out for me. If the reconstruction is accurate she's got today's equivalent of £20k in an envelope sticking out of her bag and doesn't seem to care who knows. By the way yes they do make the nanny look a little guilty. It's the expression on her face when Penny mentions the money.

 

[CSIAngus]

Agree. I also think there was an accomplice, who instigated the killing, and helped with the cars but was elsewhere at the time and thus ruled out, and that that person was a family member.

Funny looking back on posts. I absolutely do not agree with my earlier posts on this case.

 

[davidt]

Funny looking back on posts. I absolutely do not agree with my earlier posts on this case.

I can see where you were going with that initially. Have to say I don't rule out the idea of an accomplice. Makes quite a bit of sense in many ways. Especially to enable a getaway after the killing.

 

[davidt]

Just to go back on the possible sightings of her in her car that day. She was driving an artic/sky blue Jaguar XJS at the time. Its a very distinctive car to start with and even more so given the colour. It's not the sort of car you'd mix up with something else. I'm sure the police checked but I imagine there were very few, if any other cars of the same type and colour in the general area. For that reason I do find the sightings of her plausible although it's not impossible there may have been another one of the same type and colour around. If she'd been driving a Volkswagen Golf or something I'd feel very different.

 

[tes1984]

Just to go back on the possible sightings of her in her car that day. She was driving an artic/sky blue Jaguar XJS at the time. Its a very distinctive car to start with and even more so given the colour. It's not the sort of car you'd mix up with something else. I'm sure the police checked but I imagine there were very few, if any other cars of the same type and colour in the general area. For that reason I do find the sightings of her plausible although it's not impossible there may have been another one of the same type and colour around. If she'd been driving a Volkswagen Golf or something I'd feel very different.

The two confirmed sightings were Penny being seen leaving her house that morning (at either 9.40am or 9.50am) and then Penny being seen in the car park (11am).

All the potential sightings between Denham and the car park were sightings which were first reported months after the murder.

The initial forensic examination suggested that Penny was not attacked before she reached the car park.

The wallpaper samples being laid out might also suggest she was looking at them alone (or was showing them to someone) before the initial attack took place.

 

[CSIAngus]

The two confirmed sightings were Penny being seen leaving her house that morning (at either 9.40am or 9.50am) and then Penny being seen in the car park (11am).

All the potential sightings between Denham and the car park were sightings which were first reported months after the murder.

The initial forensic examination suggested that Penny was not attacked before she reached the car park.

The wallpaper samples being laid out might also suggest she was looking at them alone (or was showing them to someone) before the initial attack took place.

There is scruffy we all suspect. It's only him.

 

[tes1984]

There is scruffy *advertiser censored* we all suspect. It's only him.

Not certain what the scruffy description is based on...

 

[CSIAngus]

Not certain what the scruffy description is based on...

There's a bit that was censored which shifts the post out of context. I'll not go back over that but there is an obvious suspect, IMO.

 

[davidt]

Presuming this is the suspect that the police ruled out previously? If so it's a person that's difficult to judge given the nature of their various claims over the years.

 

[tes1984]

Could Penny have fallen for a sob story from someone she knew through her charity work, or her recruitment business?

Someone needs money and she agrees to help them. Penny and her husband had both been involved homeless charities for a long time.

8.5k seems rather a lot though. 1 or 2k perhaps to help someone back on their feet, but 8.5k?

 

[lee sumner]

Could Penny have fallen for a sob story from someone she knew through her charity work, or her recruitment business?

Someone needs money and she agrees to help them. Penny and her husband had both been involved homeless charities for a long time.

8.5k seems rather a lot though. 1 or 2k perhaps to help someone back on their feet, but 8.5k?

DS brian edwards, SIO, in charge of the investigation knows who killed penny, but they could never prove it.

 

[tes1984]

DS brian edwards, SIO, in charge of the investigation knows who killed penny, but they could never prove it.

It's not an unresolved case though, so as far as the Metropolitan Police today are concerned, it's still unsolved.

 

[tes1984]

It was also a freshly preserved crime scene, yet the lack of forensic evidence in this case is baffling. By 1991 the Met knew all about DNA, so they should have been preserving everything. Yet never any talk of forensic advances or re-testing anything with regards to Penny Bell.