UK - Prince Andrew accused of underage sexual relationship, 1999-2002 *settled* #2

  • #1,261
Agree, and apart from anything else, the idea that Andrew is going to cooperate, come clean and name names (as per your above letter link) is beyond ludicrous. As if!

He and his current fall from grace is an absolute gift to those who need a distracting target on which to focus their 'busy being busy' operation.

It's all so cynically and transparently performative, isn't it, all for show.
 
  • #1,262
Agree, and apart from anything else, the idea that Andrew is going to cooperate, come clean and name names (as per your above letter link) is beyond ludicrous.

He and his current fall from grace is an absolute gift to those who need a distracting target on which to focus their 'busy being busy' operation.

It's all so cynically and transparently performative, isn't it, all for show.
Absolutely! Given the choice of: confronting the serious ongoing problems in the US, or chasing down a foreigner based on a book written by a deceased foreigner ... what to do? We know what Congress decided was best.
 
  • #1,263
Absolutely! Given the choice of: confronting the serious ongoing problems in the US, or chasing down a foreigner based on a book written by a deceased foreigner ... what to do? We know what Congress decided was best.

^ But not just that though. Congress, Reps and Demos alike, absolutely 100% know the contents of the Epstein files and the names named. They know who they are. When both are in danger of being exposed, they'll unite to do whatever it takes to keep the focus elsewhere.

They just will.
 
  • #1,264
The other thing seemingly being ignored is the age of consent.

In England, the age of consent is 16. IIRC, VG was almost 18 at the time of the alleged ‘intimacy’ with Andrew.

No one can be tried, in a different country, with a lower age of consent, as if it took place in said country.

It’s very odd that Andrew is being persued in this manner when there are so many Americans available who could answer any & all questions.

<modsnip> MOO, JMO

Edit: to fix auto correct
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #1,265
Yes. Australian citizen Giuffre and British citizen Andrew met in London 25 years ago. Andrew and Sarah relied on Epstein for money. On that basis, valuable US federal government time has been allocated to interview Andrew.

Meanwhile, there is US government activity related to Christians in Nigeria, reducing global environment protections, legality of global tariffs, the US bombing boats in international water, Russia bombing Ukraine, the random arrest and deportation of people, shutting down the government for several weeks, 12% of the population without food, threats that many more will lose health care, and so much more.

Distraction.

Virginia was actually an American citizen (only) when these crimes took place.
She was born in the US, grew up mostly in Florida, and became (also) an Australian citizen later - presumably some time after she married Robert, having met him in 2002.

Her dad got her the job at Mar A Lago when she was 16 - her dad was a groundskeeper at Mar A Lago.

I know this from her book Nobody's Girl, but here are a couple of other links.

The American-born mother, who lived in Australia for years ...

 
Last edited:
  • #1,266
The other thing seemingly being ignored is the age of consent.

In England, the age of consent is 16. IIRC, VG was almost 18 at the time of the alleged ‘intimacy’ with Andrew.

No one can be tried, in a different country, with a lower age of consent, as if it took place in said country.

It’s very odd that Andrew is being perused in this manner when there are so many Americans available who could answer any & all questions.

Makes it seem like a witch hunt or that they need a patsy of sorts. MOO, JMO
Respectfully, it does not seem that the age of ‘consent’ is relevant to what it had seemed IMO were allegations of rape or coercion or trafficking or the like, or similar offenses. MOO
 
  • #1,267
The other thing seemingly being ignored is the age of consent.

In England, the age of consent is 16. IIRC, VG was almost 18 at the time of the alleged ‘intimacy’ with Andrew.

No one can be tried, in a different country, with a lower age of consent, as if it took place in said country.

It’s very odd that Andrew is being perused in this manner when there are so many Americans available who could answer any & all questions.

Makes it seem like a witch hunt or that they need a patsy of sorts. MOO, JMO

Apparently he could be tried in the UK for misconduct in public office, for attempting to smear Virginia as she was releasing her allegations.


An email obtained by Britain's Daily Mail newspaper, and published earlier in October, claimed that Andrew asked his Metropolitan Police bodyguard to investigate Virginia Giuffre shortly before her accusations against him were made public in 2021.

The newspaper reported that Andrew passed British police Giuffre's date of birth, U.S. social security number and suggested she had a criminal record. Andrew has not publicly responded to the accusation. The Metropolitan Police said they were looking into the claims.

Dai Davies, the former head of royal protection for the British monarchy and now a royal commentator, says that if the Mail's report turns out to be accurate then it means Andrew committed a criminal offense. Says Lownie: “Misconduct in public office, which carries life imprisonment, could be what they bring against him, quite apart from the sex trafficking allegations."


 
  • #1,268
The other thing seemingly being ignored is the age of consent.

In England, the age of consent is 16. IIRC, VG was almost 18 at the time of the alleged ‘intimacy’ with Andrew.

No one can be tried, in a different country, with a lower age of consent, as if it took place in said country.

It’s very odd that Andrew is being perused in this manner when there are so many Americans available who could answer any & all questions.

Makes it seem like a witch hunt or that they need a patsy of sorts. MOO, JMO
Exactly. Maxwell has answers. There's nothing that Andrew can add.
 
  • #1,269
Exactly. Maxwell has answers. There's nothing that Andrew can add.

According to Virginia, others also have answers.

Eg: Larry Visoski Jr, one of Epstein's pilots. Visoski had refused to hand over his Epstein flight records. Epstein had gifted him 40 acres of land.
Eg: Emmy Tayler, Maxwell's personal assistant.
Eg: Sarah Kellen, Epstein's assistant.

Source: Nobody's Girl by Virginia Roberts Giuffre

imo
 
  • #1,270
Apparently he could be tried in the UK for misconduct in public office, for attempting to smear Virginia as she was releasing her allegations.


An email obtained by Britain's Daily Mail newspaper, and published earlier in October, claimed that Andrew asked his Metropolitan Police bodyguard to investigate Virginia Giuffre shortly before her accusations against him were made public in 2021.

The newspaper reported that Andrew passed British police Giuffre's date of birth, U.S. social security number and suggested she had a criminal record. Andrew has not publicly responded to the accusation. The Metropolitan Police said they were looking into the claims.

Dai Davies, the former head of royal protection for the British monarchy and now a royal commentator, says that if the Mail's report turns out to be accurate then it means Andrew committed a criminal offense. Says Lownie: “Misconduct in public office, which carries life imprisonment, could be what they bring against him, quite apart from the sex trafficking allegations."



Respectfully, unless/until there are charges brought against Andrew he is an innocent man.

Andrew has had no charges nor convictions up to this point in time.
 
Last edited:
  • #1,271
Respectfully, it does not seem that the age of ‘consent’ is relevant to what it had seemed IMO were allegations of rape or coercion or trafficking or the like, or similar offenses. MOO


Without any charges being brought the age of consent is very relevant.

Is there any proof that Andrew knew VG was being trafficked?

Is there any proof of rape or coercion?

If not, perhaps that is why there have not been charges to date.
 
  • #1,272
Respectfully, unless/until there are charges brought against Andrew he is still an innocent man.

Andrew has had no charges nor convictions as to this point in time.

True. He hasn't been charged or convicted. That is what the discussion is about.

But he had 3 sexual encounters with a (US) underage and trafficked girl, as stated in her biography.

Belgravia (London UK) - Maxwell's house
New York - Epstein's house
Little Saint James, US Virgin Islands - Epstein's island retreat

Source: Nobody's Girl by Virginia Roberts Giuffre
(I'm only halfway through the book)
 
Last edited:
  • #1,273
True. He hasn't been charged or convicted. That is what the discussion is about.

But he had 3 sexual encounters with a (US) underage and trafficked girl, as stated in her biography.

Belgravia (London UK) - Maxwell's house
New York - Epstein's house
Little Saint James, US Virgin Islands - Epstein's island retreat

Source: Nobody's Girl by Virginia Roberts Giuffre
(I'm only halfway through the book)

I think the word ‘alleged’ or ‘allegedly’ should be added here……
 
  • #1,274
I think the word ‘alleged’ or ‘allegedly’ should be added here……

Didn't this person write to the convicted criminal/sexual predator
"We will play soon"?

What "play" did this person mean?
Chess?? 🤔

Honestly,
This beating of the dead horse is getting boring now.
I mean
I've been following this thread for a few years
and the same excuses are returning like boomerangs 🪃

Can you imagine,
some would still curtsy & bow while meeting this person?

🤣😂🤣

Shaking my head and rolling my eyes :rolleyes:

JMcommoner'sO
 
Last edited:
  • #1,275
Without any charges being brought the age of consent is very relevant.

Is there any proof that Andrew knew VG was being trafficked?

Is there any proof of rape or coercion?

If not, perhaps that is why there have not been charges to date.
A good question.

As to the question of proof of what the former prince knew or did, or didn’t do, I wish that I and the general public did know. And that it had been fully disclosed. But I fear that we do not. And IMO I wouldn’t believe much of what has been stated. Sadly, one side of the case is now deceased.

As to whether or not charges have or have not been brought, without direct knowledge I don’t have an answer one way or the other. It is unfortunate that additional charges have not been brought. Perhaps if no further charges are to be brought…… then the entire case file(s) should be released, unredacted, to the public.

The perspective IMO that consent is not relevant in matters of rape or similar accusations remains. Those matters IMO should not be conflated. IIUC consent is not a relevant factor in cases of rape or related offenses. IANAL. MOO
 
  • #1,276
A good question.

As to the question of proof of what the former prince knew or did, or didn’t do, I wish that I and the general public did know. And that it had been fully disclosed. But I fear that we do not. And IMO I wouldn’t believe much of what has been stated. Sadly, one side of the case is now deceased.

As to whether or not charges have or have not been brought, without direct knowledge I don’t have an answer one way or the other. It is unfortunate that additional charges have not been brought. Perhaps if no further charges are to be brought…… then the entire case file(s) should be released, unredacted, to the public.

The perspective IMO that consent is not relevant in matters of rape or similar accusations remains. Those matters IMO should not be conflated. IIUC consent is not a relevant factor in cases of rape or related offenses. IANAL. MOO

I agree that consent is not relevant in cases of rape.

Why and when has a case file ever been made public?

I would think and hope that it remains a private matter between the accused and the state.

If no further charges are to be brought, I would assume there is not enough proof to move forward with the case.

IMO
 
Last edited:
  • #1,277
I agree that consent is not relevant in cases of rape.

Why and when has a case file ever been made public?

I would think and hope that it remains a private matter between the accused and the state.

If not further charges are to be brought, I would assume there is not enough proof to move forward with the case.

IMO

Oh ...
But there is a proof ;)
A photograph.

Of a minor foreign girl,
GM (convicted of sexual matters & jailed)
and this person holding the girl at the waist.

I don't remember any other men photographing themselves with Virginia.

That is why this photo is so infamous.

JMO
 
Last edited:
  • #1,278
  • #1,279
The perspective IMO that consent is not relevant in matters of rape or similar accusations remains. Those matters IMO should not be conflated. IIUC consent is not a relevant factor in cases of rape or related offenses. IANAL. MOO

I agree that consent is not relevant in cases of rape.
RSBM. I think I must be misunderstanding these statements, I've been reading back to see what I've missed but I'm none the wiser.

I'm sure I must be missing something obvious.

In what context are you suggesting consent is not relevant in cases of rape?
 
  • #1,280
If Democrats want more information about Epstein, they should interview the employees he relied on to recruit victims. According to verifiable facts, Andrew received a "massage" from a women who was recruited by Epstein, Maxwell and their employees. Although Giuffre's book describes her experience and memories, it is not evidence.

Giuffre accepted a financial settlement from Andrew, and objected to a one year non-disclosure agreement. Most non-disclosure agreements are a lot longer than one year. Andrew's lawyers sought to discredit Giuffre, but that is standard practice in civil lawsuits - that's how many private investigators earn a living.

"After Mr. Epstein’s suicide in a Manhattan jail cell in early August, federal authorities have refocused their investigation on the more than half-dozen employees, girlfriends and associates whom prosecutors say he relied on to feed his insatiable appetite for girls, according to two people with knowledge of the inquiry. Ms. Robson, now 33, is among them.
...

A review by The New York Times of lawsuits, unsealed court records and depositions, along with new interviews, offers disturbing allegations about how this small cadre of women helped Mr. Epstein lure girls into his orbit and managed the logistics of his encounters with them.

Mr. Epstein is also accused in civil suits of relying on an organized network of underlings: those who trained girls how to sexually pleasure him; office assistants who booked cars and travel; and recruiters who ensured he always had a fresh supply of teenage girls at the ready.

None of Mr. Epstein’s associates have been charged or named as co-conspirators in Manhattan.
...

Four women were apparently so instrumental to Mr. Epstein’s operation that they were named as possible “co-conspirators” and were granted immunity from prosecution in a widely criticized plea bargain Mr. Epstein struck with federal prosecutors in Florida more than a decade ago. ... The four women — Sarah Kellen, Lesley Groff, Adriana Ross and Nadia Marcinkova — could still be subject to criminal charges in Manhattan."

 

Guardians Monthly Goal

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
144
Guests online
1,476
Total visitors
1,620

Forum statistics

Threads
635,426
Messages
18,676,156
Members
243,224
Latest member
Noodles1
Back
Top