UK - Prince Andrew accused of underage sexual relationship, 1999 - 2002

[Dotta]

I did not state that you did.

Oh, OK!!!
Im relieved

 

[Vern]

Oh, OK!!!
Im relieved

Happy Monday!

 

[Dotta]

Happy Monday!

"I hate Mondays" is my fav movie haha
The same to you

 

[tayaway]

PA has not been proven, either civilly or criminally, to be an abuser of VG at this point in time.

Ergo "alleged".

Or has he and I somehow missed it?

This doesn't make sense. Who is saying PA is guilty? I noted that we don't know what happened between VRG/PA.

We can; I'd just appreciate it not being insinuated that I am a "victim blamer" because I also happen to believe in the alleged perpetrators rights being upheld until/unless the allegations are proven otherwise.

Doesn't that seem fair?

Who said that? There is an ongoing debate in this thread about whether 17 year old VRG is a victim or not, or herself is guilty b/c she recruited girls for JE's pyramid sex scheme. What has that got to do with whether PA is guilty/innocent?

 

[investikater]

VRG's lawsuit covers 3 alleged assaults, not just the 1 in the UK (consent 16). The other 2 being NYC (consent 17) and Little St. James in the Virgin Islands (consent 18).

UK - legal
NY - legal
VI - ?

She turned 18 that year. Was the trip there before or after August?

 

[Legally Bland]

It does matter.
Especially considering that that case was settled under seal.
How are we supposed to know if that is a genuine letter to VRG?

It's a court filing which has been declared as true by VRG's lawyer. GM's lawyers would have received an unredacted copy which they don't seem to have taken issue with. This is the case that the FBI have examined to bring perjury charges against Maxwell and they don't seem to have an issue with it either.

It's your burden to disprove it. And given what we know it would seem unlikely VRG wasn't identified as a victim of Epstein.

 

[Legally Bland]

UK - legal
NY - legal
VI - ?

She turned 18 that year. Was the trip there before or after August?

It doesn't really matter what jurisdiction it happened in, the claim is that it was non-consensual. There seems to be a theme here that intercourse did happen, which makes one version of events a lot more credible than the other.

 

[tayaway]

UK - legal
NY - legal
VI - ?

She turned 18 that year. Was the trip there before or after August?

consent - 18. According to her lawsuit, she was 17 for all 3 sexual encounters.

 

[escape2sc]

Despite Virginia being 17 years old - she was under the age of 18 when she was sex trafficked by Epstein and Maxwell . According to U.S. law, age of consent laws are irrelevant if the sex trafficking victim was under the age of 18 - by sex trafficking laws Virginia was a minor child and not old enough to consent.

also - ignorance of the law is not a defense. Ignorance of a person being a minor is not a defense against sexual assault in New York.

Yes by law - Andrew is innocent until proven guilty.
By law - 17 yr old sex trafficked Virginia was a minor and age of consent is not a factor
By NY law - ignorance of age is not a defense for sexual assault.

 

[mickey2942]

But this is supposed to not be about money to VRG?

Prince Andrew settlement with accuser ‘could cost more than $5m’

It is a civil lawsuit, which is pretty much all about money. There would not be any criminal charges. What does VRG want?

 

[tayaway]

It doesn't really matter what jurisdiction it happened in, the claim is that it was non-consensual. There seems to be a theme here that intercourse did happen, which makes one version of events a lot more credible than the other.

I'm sure somebody else has already linked to the lawsuit docs, but to refresh our memories, here is the original lawsuit VRG filed against PA.

@investikater is correct, the jurisdiction matters, at least for the underage part of the claim - VRG's lawsuit connects the sexual assault allegations to the fact that she was a minor in at least the Virgin Islands:

10. Prince Andrew committed sexual assault and battery upon Plaintiff when she was 17 years old. As such, Prince Andrew is responsible for battery and intentional infliction of emotional distress pursuant to New York common law. The damage to Plaintiff has been severe and lasting.

11. This action has been timely filed pursuant to the Child Victims Act, N.Y. C.P.L.R. § 214-g. The actions described herein constitute sexual offenses by Defendant under New York Penal Law Article 130, and were committed against Plaintiff when she was a child less than eighteen years of age, for which she suffered physical, psychological, and other injuries as a result.

 

[UK Girl]

It doesn't really matter what jurisdiction it happened in, the claim is that it was non-consensual. There seems to be a theme here that intercourse did happen, which makes one version of events a lot more credible than the other.

Especially if you listen to Carolynn ...

 

[UK Girl]

So confirmed.....Prince Andrew settles £6.6m debt with French socialite after buying Swiss ski chalet | Daily Mail Online

 

[UK Girl]

Queen 'won't pay for Prince Andrew's legal move - Duke's Swiss chalet for sale'

Looks like PA is selling assets. Sounds like a settlement might be coming soon.

the chalet being sold is nothing to do with any settlement..he owed a lot of money on it and whilst I thought he should offer a settlement I actually no longer think he should. I believe he should let it play out in the court.

 

[Forest_Wood]

oh I know that ignorance is not an excuse in law.

In Britain she was of legal age.

just saying that PA may not have thought his friend would send a trafficked young woman to him.

The Brits seem to have a totally different take on VG. She was of age, although he 2as nearly 40, he did Not commit a crime.

VG has stated he had sex with her 3x — the second time being in NYC in March of 2001 when she was still 17. GM played the guessing game with PA, asking him to guess her age, which he guessed correctly, so he evidently knew her age. PA is on record for saying he never saw underage girls at any of JE’s residences. He even went so far as to say that he was trained in identifying the signs, but indeed saw nothing. There are other reports that he sexually assaulted a different girl in NYC, JS, by grabbing her breast. There was an interview with another girl, MS, who said GM demanded she go over to the NYC mansion because PA wanted to meet her. MS refused to go and suffered consequences. And then there’s the group sex with underage Russian girls + VG on LSJ where PA was observed by a worker there. MOO.

 

[Legally Bland]

I'm sure somebody else has already linked to the lawsuit docs, but to refresh our memories, here is the original lawsuit VRG filed against PA.

@investikater is correct, the jurisdiction matters, at least for the underage part of the claim - VRG's lawsuit connects the sexual assault allegations to the fact that she was a minor in at least the Virgin Islands:

10. Prince Andrew committed sexual assault and battery upon Plaintiff when she was 17 years old. As such, Prince Andrew is responsible for battery and intentional infliction of emotional distress pursuant to New York common law. The damage to Plaintiff has been severe and lasting.

11. This action has been timely filed pursuant to the Child Victims Act, N.Y. C.P.L.R. § 214-g. The actions described herein constitute sexual offenses by Defendant under New York Penal Law Article 130, and were committed against Plaintiff when she was a child less than eighteen years of age, for which she suffered physical, psychological, and other injuries as a result.

Yes, you are correct. I'm just getting a bit tired of some of the opinions that consent is defined solely by a number.

 

[Dotta]

Yes, you are correct. I'm just getting a bit tired of some of the opinions that consent is defined solely by a number.

People believe what they want to

 

[tayaway]

Yes, you are correct. I'm just getting a bit tired of some of the opinions that consent is defined solely by a number.

Agreed, especially when it comes to minor/adult sex trafficking responsibility ...I couldn't remember if VRG made her age a part of the lawsuit or not, so decided to look it up again.

Despite Virginia being 17 years old - she was under the age of 18 when she was sex trafficked by Epstein and Maxwell . According to U.S. law, age of consent laws are irrelevant if the sex trafficking victim was under the age of 18 - by sex trafficking laws Virginia was a minor child and not old enough to consent.

also - ignorance of the law is not a defense. Ignorance of a person being a minor is not a defense against sexual assault in New York.

Yes by law - Andrew is innocent until proven guilty.
By law - 17 yr old sex trafficked Virginia was a minor and age of consent is not a factor
By NY law - ignorance of age is not a defense for sexual assault.

Wow, this is good to know. So, in this way, as far as the US underage allegations go, @investikater, the jurisdiction does not matter. Here's the gov't link.

 

[UK Girl]

VG has stated he had sex with her 3x — the second time being in NYC in March of 2001 when she was still 17. GM played the guessing game with PA, asking him to guess her age, which he guessed correctly, so he evidently knew her age. PA is on record for saying he never saw underage girls at any of JE’s residences. He even went so far as to say that he was trained in identifying the signs, but indeed saw nothing. There are other reports that he sexually assaulted a different girl in NYC, JS, by grabbing her breast. There was an interview with another girl, MS, who said GM demanded she go over to the NYC mansion because PA wanted to meet her. MS refused to go and suffered consequences. And then there’s the group sex with underage Russian girls + VG on LSJ where PA was observed by a worker there. MOO.

If that other girl is who i think...she said she sat on his lap willingly. That she thought he was charming and that she took no offence from anything that happened.

 

[UK Girl]

VG has stated he had sex with her 3x — the second time being in NYC in March of 2001 when she was still 17. GM played the guessing game with PA, asking him to guess her age, which he guessed correctly, so he evidently knew her age. PA is on record for saying he never saw underage girls at any of JE’s residences. He even went so far as to say that he was trained in identifying the signs, but indeed saw nothing. There are other reports that he sexually assaulted a different girl in NYC, JS, by grabbing her breast. There was an interview with another girl, MS, who said GM demanded she go over to the NYC mansion because PA wanted to meet her. MS refused to go and suffered consequences. And then there’s the group sex with underage Russian girls + VG on LSJ where PA was observed by a worker there. MOO.

We also have Carolynn telling us that VG told her to lie about her age...how do we know she didnt lie? or that that happened even?