GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #10

[Tortoise]

Isn't one of the agreed facts that "None of SH fingerprints found in shed at 9 Barton court, or on any items of significance at 14 CML or 18 Crown hill" (Siobhan Robbins tweet from earlier today)?

she probably wore rubber gloves.

 

[iclaudia]

she probably wore rubber gloves.

I cannot believe, personally, that a woman who was actively looking after a toddler whilst being 18 weeks pregnant with twins, would be donning rubber gloves to take part in a brutal murder. Whilst at the same time leaving no discernible forensic evidence behind. (ETA - when I was 18 weeks pregnant with my twins, I could barely leave the sofa... )

I do however totally agree with you that his version is utterly ludicrous.

 

[Tortoise]

I cannot believe, personally, that a woman who was actively looking after a toddler whilst being 18 weeks pregnant with twins, would be donning rubber gloves to take part in a brutal murder. Whilst at the same time leaving no discernible forensic evidence behind.

I do however totally agree with you that his version is utterly ludicrous.

hang on. the finger prints was to do with the items hidden in the shed, not the murder. They wouldn't finger print the body. NM's prints weren't found on the body. SH was a regular visitor to the house, her prints in the house wouldn't be suspicious, unless they were in blood.

 

[Wallace]

I cannot believe, personally, that a woman who was actively looking after a toddler whilst being 18 weeks pregnant with twins, would be donning rubber gloves to take part in a brutal murder. Whilst at the same time leaving no discernible forensic evidence behind. (ETA - when I was 18 weeks pregnant with my twins, I could barely leave the sofa... )

I do however totally agree with you that his version is utterly ludicrous.

Properly motivated people can achieve things that seem impossible to others.

Having a dead body in your house that linked you directly to a murder might be enough motivation for most people to help with the disposal.

The lack of forensic evidence is perhaps the only thing that will save SH's skin. Her story is implausible but at present NM is backing her up 95% of the way. The only time he disagrees with any of her statements is when they reflect badly on him. NM oddly seems quite happy to admit that he killed Becky and dismembered her, yet doesn't like the idea that SH said he was occasionally violent towards her. It's like she's gone off script and he doesn't agree with her embellishments.

 

[Tortoise]

I don't believe him either. If it didn’t happen like that then why is he lying about how Becky died?

Ignoring for a second the other charges and looking only at the murder charge.

1) His real actions are much more likely to result in a guilty verdict and he’s lying to protect himself
2) He wasn’t alone when Becky was killed. He’s lying to protect himself and SH
3) He wasn’t there when Becky was killed, He’s lying to protect SH

Any other reasons?

possibly the same as 2. but if they acted together then it is harder if not impossible to deny the charge - in that it would show clear intent to cause harm from the outset, rather than two people being involved in an accidental death.

 

[flutterby]

Just playing catchup, I've been away for a week on on thread 7! Seems it's been a busy week.

 

[Tortoise]

If the jury can be convinced of SH's involvement in the cover up, then to my mind that leads naturally to the conclusion that she participated in the murder.

what other motives can SH have for one without the other? any ideas?

 

[Clio]

If the jury can be convinced of SH's involvement in the cover up, then to my mind that leads naturally to the conclusion that she participated in the murder.

what other motives can SH have for one without the other? any ideas?

Participated in or was aware of? If she was party to a "plan" that went wrong which resulted in Becky's death, that might lead to her being complicit in the cover up. If she wasn't the one that actually killed Becky, it might also lead to an agreement that she must be protected from criminal charges.

 

[mrazda71]

Properly motivated people can achieve things that seem impossible to others.

Couldn't this then be true of Nathan? If you say that Shauna, at almost halfway through a pregnancy with twins could find the wherewithal then surely the same could be applied to Nathan getting Becky to the car boot despite his Fibro?

Someone in the last thread said something like 'I can't imagine Becky just letting him put on handcuffs' complying with his orders etc But I think unless you're actually IN a situation you don't know how you'll react to something so alien. You might think if someone grabbed me on my way home and tried to drag me off I'd do xyz but IF it actually happened you'd be taken by surprise for a start, shocked, stunned, paralysed with fear anything, your brain and body could behave in ways which are the complete opposite to what you think you'd do when sat in safety just imaging it ... if that makes sense.

Another point I'd like to make - can't recall who said it but the person said 'she's not even reacting like it's affecting it, she's cold or calm etc not shocked or horrified' ... my opinion on that is, it's not the first time she's heard it! She is very pregnant and if innocent, in what must be a living nightmare and at 21! Good grief! My 20 year old still wants me to make her drs appointments for her and take stuff that doesn't fit back to New Look! - Shauna will have been asked the same questions over and over and over - as for her 'laughing' I'd hardly call it laughing but even so - I laugh/snort/whatever you want to call it at the most difficult and inappropriate times ...

 

[mrazda71]

As inappropriate as the texts regarding knocking out a pretty girl are I don't consider them a plan and in such a serious situation if asked if I'd planned to kidnap someone I would not be thinking well yes I did once a few months ago mention knocking out a girl and taking her to our non existent attic ...

I had neighbours once and the husband and wife were in their early 60's - he was a heavy drinker and they had a very Jack and Vera marriage - wife used to joke often that one day she'd push him down the stairs when he was drunk and go on a cruise with his life insurance and the people who knew them well knew she was just joking ... well sadly, one day he did end up dead at the bottom of the stairs but fortunately for his wife she was in hospital at the time having an op but had she been at home I'm sure she'd have had plenty of people telling police how she'd been planning it for years

 

[ColourPurple]

We were discussing earlier whether the sellotape NM was saying he put around Beck's mouth was see through... according to the court info it was but what also struck me is how many layers of wrapping there were on all the body parts. Cling film wasn't just used for the first layer of wrapping. For example ...(graphic description warning)

“Becky’s head was wrapped inside the suitcase.The outside packaging was an Asda carrier bag, inside that was wrapped in cling film and then inside that was duct tape and further wraps of cling film and a thick blue plastic wrapped in silver duct tape.“The head was inside that plastic bag and there was clear tape over the face. The head was covered with damp white crystals.

The pathologist then examined the contents of a blue plastic box.Dr Cook said: “It was a pale blue storage box with several loose garments on the top and a brown throw which covered a shaped, wrapped object.“There were multiple wrappings - a thick blue plastic bag with brown parcel tape and multiple layers of cling film..“Underneath that an area of silver duct tape, black duct tape and cling film and another thick blue plastic bag. Underneath that two brown bathroom mats and more duct tape and brown parcel tape. Then a plastic sack saying ‘It’s My birthday - Wacky Warehouse’.“Then a white shower curtain and underneath that a human torso with another thick blue plastic bag down to the waist.”

The right arm was in two pieces within an Asda carrier bag then wrapped in cling film, then inside a thick blue plastic bag and cling film on the inside of that bag.“The right hand was wrapped separately in cling film in a thick blue plastic bag sealed with cling film.“The sharp bone of the wrist was covered by a pad.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-live-6631230

I had kind of assumed cling film would be used to wrap the body parts then bags taped over the cling film, yet instead there are multiple layers of duct tape, cling film and plastic bags. eg. plastic bag then duct tape then cling film then duct tape then more cling film... which does seem to fit with them going out to buy more cling film and bags the following day in order to add more layers to already wrapped body parts.

 

[Cherwell]

Properly motivated people can achieve things that seem impossible to others.

Yes, and adrenaline can kick in and carry you through.

 

[Cherwell]

The "thick blue plastic bags" sound like the rubble sacks. I think someone earlier wondered what had become of those.

 

[Tortoise]

We were discussing earlier whether the sellotape NM was saying he put around Beck's mouth was see through... according to the court info it was but what also struck me is how many layers of wrapping there were on all the body parts. Cling film wasn't just used for the first layer of wrapping. For example ...(graphic description warning)

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-live-6631230

I had kind of assumed cling film would be used to wrap the body parts then bags taped over the cling film, yet instead there are multiple layers of duct tape, cling film and plastic bags. eg. plastic bag then duct tape then cling film then duct tape then more cling film... which does seem to fit with them going out to buy more cling film and bags the following day in order to add more layers to already wrapped body parts.

Thanks.

I wonder if the clear tape over the face was arranged in the way he described, or if he applied that when wrapping up. Only the police will know if it fits with his version. I suppose we may find out in cross examination.

 

[Tealgrove]

He's lying and she's lying. Their stories don't gel.

I can't get past no DNA or blood from Becky in the bathroom. I can't. I have an even harder problem now because Nathan says that as he was dismembering her in the bathtub he tried not to look. It was surreal. How in the world can you not watch what you're doing with a power tool in your hands and NOT cause damage to the bathtub?

Please. Somebody. Explain this to me because I cannot wrap my head around it and I can't understand how he got EVERY PIECE of DNA GONE!

His story is made up. Her story is made up and the more he talks the worse it gets for both of them. 10,000 pounds (sorry no pound note on my computer) to help move some stuff because Shauna's place was going to get raided? He's a take out delivery guy. Who has that kind of money hanging around? Why would they believe he would pay them that much money?

His story doesn't work.

Please God let's hope that the Jury are asking the same questions we're asking because if they thought Shauna wasn't involved based on evidence presented earlier, they have to go back and start asking questions now.

What a convoluted trial.

The evidence doesn't seem to support the Prosecution's theory. Then the Defence puts Nathan on the stand and he puts himself in a corner and in his attempt, (for whatever reason), to save Shauna, raises more questions and doubt that lead us to believe that she is undeniably involved when a week ago we were shaking our heads thinking maybe she wasn't.

Then I look at Nathan's emotional behaviour on the stand and I am soooooo reminded of Ariel Castro. While Castro was lying and to prove that it was all the victims' fault for what happened to them, he hung his head and closed his eyes. He couldn't look at anyone. He retreated into himself. Nathan is doing the same thing. Closes his eyes, hangs his head, can't look up. We are not getting the real story but we are getting bits of reality.

I still think we are missing a crucial piece of the puzzle. Something's missing. What could it be? Why didn't he want to hear Shauna's name? He is freaked out by her now for some reason.

I can't wait for the cross examination.

 

[Gigi-G]

Sooo confusing. NM'S version of events just don't seem plausible. The lack of info regarding the preparation of BW. And then the lack of DNA at the supposed dismemberment area.

As for SH I really have no idea on where she's going with her statements.

I hope they get to cross examine NM. And manage to get SH to take the stand. I think it's vital she stand now NM has. Then there will be 2 accounts of what ensued. To see if they add up.

Making my spot for tomorrow... ☺

 

[Gigi-G]

He's lying and she's lying. Their stories don't gel.


I can't get past no DNA or blood from Becky in the bathroom. I can't. I have an even harder problem now because Nathan says that as he was dismembering her in the bathtub he tried not to look. It was surreal. How in the world can you not watch what you're doing with a power tool in your hands and NOT cause damage to the bathtub?

Please. Somebody. Explain this to me because I cannot wrap my head around it and I can't understand how he got EVERY PIECE of DNA GONE!

His story is made up. Her story is made up and the more he talks the worse it gets for both of them. 10,000 pounds (sorry no pound note on my computer) to help move some stuff because Shauna's place was going to get raided? He's a take out delivery guy. Who has that kind of money hanging around? Why would they believe he would pay them that much money?

His story doesn't work.

Please God let's hope that the Jury are asking the same questions we're asking because if they thought Shauna wasn't involved based on evidence presented earlier, they have to go back and start asking questions now.

What a convoluted trial.

The evidence doesn't seem to support the Prosecution's theory. Then the Defence puts Nathan on the stand and he puts himself in a corner and in his attempt, (for whatever reason), to save Shauna, raises more questions and doubt that lead us to believe that she is undeniably involved when a week ago we were shaking our heads thinking maybe she wasn't.

Then I look at Nathan's emotional behaviour on the stand and I am soooooo reminded of Ariel Castro. While Castro was lying and to prove that it was all the victims' fault for what happened to them, he hung his head and closed his eyes. He couldn't look at anyone. He retreated into himself. Nathan is doing the same thing. Closes his eyes, hangs his head, can't look up. We are not getting the real story but we are getting bits of reality.

I still think we are missing a crucial piece of the puzzle. Something's missing. What could it be? Why didn't he want to hear Shauna's name? He is freaked out by her now for some reason.

I can't wait for the cross examination.

I am with you 100% ☺

 

[ColourPurple]

Another thing I noticed is tha NM said he made two journeys with JI and KD to the shed (ETA or two trips on foot fill up the van)that night but then the next day went back to he shed to add a rucksack

Matthews told the court he offered Karl Demetrius £10,000 for his help moving items and storing them, and chose him because "he didn't know anyone else".He said it took him, Karl and James Ireland two trips to get the body parts into the van, before they were unloaded into the house.The former delivery driver said he told the men not to look in the boxes, and watched as Karl and James put them into the shed.He told the court he added another bag - a rucksack - the next day and promised to collect it in a few days.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-stepbrother-6716128#rlabs=49%20p$5

That made me wonder what was in the rucksack, why did he take it separately and where was it when police searched.

Well, I found what the rucksack contained...(see below) All the random bis and bobs involved in the crime... but why was this taken separately the next day? Was it just overlooked... or maybe still being packed? or something else?

[FONT=open_sans]The jury was told there were several items in this rucksack, above, including:[/FONT]
A used Avon make up brush
Apparently blood stained safety goggles
Used roll of brown tape
Black handled screwdriver
Shower curtain
Asda cling film cardboard box
Masks with apparent make up on the interior edge
Handcuffs
Knife with a 12.5cm blade, apparently blood-stained
Scissors
Flat-headed blue-handled screwdriver
Drain cleaner bottles, apparently blood-stained
Blue handled pliers, apparently blood-stained
Rajani Stores bag, apparently blood-stained
Hooded jacket and small pink leopard print onesie
[FONT=open_sans]

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-...tory-27992054-detail/story.html#ixzz3pokQhIQ4


[/FONT]

 

[Tortoise]

He's lying and she's lying. Their stories don't gel.

I can't get past no DNA or blood from Becky in the bathroom. I can't. I have an even harder problem now because Nathan says that as he was dismembering her in the bathtub he tried not to look. It was surreal. How in the world can you not watch what you're doing with a power tool in your hands and NOT cause damage to the bathtub?

Please. Somebody. Explain this to me because I cannot wrap my head around it and I can't understand how he got EVERY PIECE of DNA GONE!

His story is made up. Her story is made up and the more he talks the worse it gets for both of them. 10,000 pounds (sorry no pound note on my computer) to help move some stuff because Shauna's place was going to get raided? He's a take out delivery guy. Who has that kind of money hanging around? Why would they believe he would pay them that much money?

His story doesn't work.

Please God let's hope that the Jury are asking the same questions we're asking because if they thought Shauna wasn't involved based on evidence presented earlier, they have to go back and start asking questions now.

What a convoluted trial.

The evidence doesn't seem to support the Prosecution's theory. Then the Defence puts Nathan on the stand and he puts himself in a corner and in his attempt, (for whatever reason), to save Shauna, raises more questions and doubt that lead us to believe that she is undeniably involved when a week ago we were shaking our heads thinking maybe she wasn't.

Then I look at Nathan's emotional behaviour on the stand and I am soooooo reminded of Ariel Castro. While Castro was lying and to prove that it was all the victims' fault for what happened to them, he hung his head and closed his eyes. He couldn't look at anyone. He retreated into himself. Nathan is doing the same thing. Closes his eyes, hangs his head, can't look up. We are not getting the real story but we are getting bits of reality.

I still think we are missing a crucial piece of the puzzle. Something's missing. What could it be? Why didn't he want to hear Shauna's name? He is freaked out by her now for some reason.

I can't wait for the cross examination.

I think one thing is certain. If the jury aren't convinced yet that SH helped in the murder and the aftermath, the prosecution will make sure they will be after cross examination. That is their case against her and they will try to break him, especially if it looks like she might not take the stand.

I see him getting a whole life, possibly in a mental institution. he's unstable, but I don't know what he was like before. could be partly PTSD but he seemed to be functioning normally to SH's family before his arrest.

 

[Tortoise]

Another thing I noticed is tha NM said he made two journeys with JI and KD to the shed that night then the next day went back to he shed to add a rucksack


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-stepbrother-6716128#rlabs=49%20p$5

That made me wonder what was in the rucksack, why did he take it separately and where was it when police searched.

Well, I found what the rucksack contained...(see below) All the random bis and bobs involved in the crime... but why was this taken separately the next day? Was it just overlooked... or maybe still being packed? or something else?

[FONT=open_sans]The jury was told there were several items in this rucksack, above, including:[/FONT]
A used Avon make up brush
Apparently blood stained safety goggles
Used roll of brown tape
Black handled screwdriver
Shower curtain
Asda cling film cardboard box
Masks with apparent make up on the interior edge
Handcuffs
Knife with a 12.5cm blade, apparently blood-stained
Scissors
Flat-headed blue-handled screwdriver
Drain cleaner bottles, apparently blood-stained
Blue handled pliers, apparently blood-stained
Rajani Stores bag, apparently blood-stained
Hooded jacket and small pink leopard print onesie
[FONT=open_sans]

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-...tory-27992054-detail/story.html#ixzz3pokQhIQ4


[/FONT]

that's why I think they hadn't done the clean up yet when the police were coming back to search first thing, and they probably stayed up all night to sanitise the bathroom after the collection.