GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #11

[cottonweaver]

To prove murder they have to prove intent. For NM that means demonstrating that as a witness, he is not credible and has been shown to lie. So ideally judge directs jury to discount his evidence, as it can't be relied on. AFAIK

SM's story isn't plausible to me but the weakness is "is it beyond all reasonable doubt" for a conviction? Pros have to undermine her credibility and show her to be a liar on many elements. (Wait n see if they manage that tomorrow.)

I didn't know that there were other charges though:

They have also been charged with four counts of making indecent images of children, though this does not relate to Becky Watts.
Matthews will additionally be forced to answer a single charge of sexual assault and voyeurism, again not in relation to Becky.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...riend-charged-with-preventing-her-burial.html
With circumstantial evidence, it is the weighing of all the small details altogether that becomes essential.

 

[LBB]

I am recovering from two frozen shoulders. I cannot even stretch over the bath to clean the other side without being in agony. he could not peg out the washing. he did not manage the sawing or to restrain Becky on his own (the former with eyes open or closed). I think and hope the jury will see that the physicality of everything he supposedly did on his own does not match his evidence.

I think he has put the nail in SH's coffin.

I agree from the level of injury/illness he describes it should be tricky. But how do we know that he is telling the truth re: the extent of his illness?

 

[LBB]

she said she went out to the shops without him.

But she's never said otherwise, has she? I believe that from her story he would allow her out to the shops.

 

[Callista]

headline on the Mirror homepage is ''I knew he found her attractive': Becky Watts killer's girlfriend admits lying to police about Facebook messages - UPDATES' - this is why I hate tabloids!! So misleading ... most people just skim read stuff and are going to take that at face value, i.e. 'Nathan was attracted to Becky, Shauna has admitted it'

 

[mrazda71]

but what is her valid reason for lying about being controlled to that degree by NM?

I don't think she is lying about the control from Nathan

 

[ColourPurple]

Telling lies and murder are a huge leap. Committing minor acts such as benefit fraud and having no tv licence are a huge leap from what SH is accused of.

When I had my first home I got done for not having a tv licence - doesn't mean I'm capable of murder.

TV licence wasn't an example given by the poster you're replying to,Benefit fraud and lying about the text messages implicating her were and she was showing the lies as proof of her lying not proof of her ability to commit murder. But either way it means she's capable of lying including in a murder case. Yes she changed her mind later when it was obvious she couldn't keep up that lie. That just tells me she'll keep lying till it's obvious that lie could be easily disproved.

 

[Tortoise]

I agree from the level of injury/illness he describes it should be tricky. But how do we know that he is telling the truth re: the extent of his illness?

if I think about it, I think he would underplay his illness if he is trying to convince anyone he had the strength to do all this alone. but he says "I am in constant pain" he describes it as crippling pain. stops him doing simple tasks.

it isn't assisting his case or SH's, so I would say it can't be a lie.

 

[YidArmyRach]

I am recovering from two frozen shoulders. I cannot even stretch over the bath to clean the other side without being in agony. he could not peg out the washing. he did not manage the sawing or to restrain Becky on his own (the former with eyes open or closed). I think and hope the jury will see that the physicality of everything he supposedly did on his own does not match his evidence.

I think he has put the nail in SH's coffin.

Must admit, I'd like to hear some medical proof that his Fibro really did exist! With all the benefit fraud going on, I wonder if the fibro was a way of getting more payments and avoiding having to work?

Seems silly to stick with that story now though, if it is the thing which is going to get your girlfriend convicted of helping you, if you stick to the story of being unable to hang out washing without being in agony, yet can single-handedly kill, dismember and dispose of a person.

Unless he really is that badly affected by it.

 

[LBB]

if I think about it, I think he would underplay his illness if he is trying to convince anyone he had the strength to do all this alone. but he says "I am in constant pain" he describes it as crippling pain. stops him doing simple tasks.

it isn't assisting his case or SH's, so I would say it can't be a lie.

Your right, it doesn't assist either of their cases. But in which case why be honest about this if not other things? It then leads me to wonder if he is being more honest that we are giving him credit for now.

 

[ColourPurple]

I don't think she is lying about the control from Nathan

He's admitted he was controlling and that she could be too. I think she's exaggerating some areas to make him look worse and herself look like if she did play apart it was a lesser part than him. She contradicts herself, off the top of my head here's a few. Yes we've discussed them already and why she might be contradicting herself but she still IS contradicting herself and that leads to thinking there's lies or exaggeration involved

She says he has control of all her money and bank card- she says she used her bank card to buy
She says she's too scared to argue with him so they dont argue- he says they do argue and a neighbour heard them argue.
She says he doesn't allow her out without him - we see texts of her texting him wheres she's been
She says he doesn't allow her to smoke- she smokes

 

[Alyce]

View attachment 83580

http://www.bigdug.co.uk/trucks-trolleys-c22/sack-trucks-c122

so another thing he just had lying around the house -pity he never used it to clear the junk out

 

[Tortoise]

But she's never said otherwise, has she? I believe that from her story he would allow her out to the shops.

The jury heard Matthews was still living “secretly” at Hoare’s home early this year.
Hoare said: “He was extremely paranoid. He wouldn’t let me go out on my own. He would always make sure every door - every bolt - was locked.
“If someone knocked on the door we wouldn’t answer it.
“I just kind of accepted it.”
The jury heard Matthews invented the name “Sophie Cook” to order Chinese takeaway meals.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-live-6733548


But I agree, she seems to give conflicting accounts.

 

[ColourPurple]

if I think about it, I think he would underplay his illness if he is trying to convince anyone he had the strength to do all this alone. but he says "I am in constant pain" he describes it as crippling pain. stops him doing simple tasks.

it isn't assisting his case or SH's, so I would say it can't be a lie.

I think hes trying to balance explaining how he could have killed her with not wanting to admit he over exaggerated his illness to claim benefits and possibly allow someone else to claim carers allowance for him. ( we havent heard that he claimed any disability benefits but I assume with all his conditions he may well have)

 

[Callista]

He's admitted he was controlling and that she could be too. I think she's exaggerating some areas to make him look worse and herself look like if she did play apart it was a lesser part than him. She contradicts herself, off the top of my head here's a few. Yes we've discussed them already and why she might be contradicting herself but she still IS contradicting herself and that leads to thinking there's lies or exaggeration involved

She says he has control of all her money and bank card- she says she used her bank card to buy
She says she's too scared to argue with him so they dont argue- he says they do argue and a neighbour heard them argue.
She says he doesn't allow her out without him - we see texts of her texting him wheres she's been
She says he doesn't allow her to smoke- she smokes

I think the caveat for all of this is she does these things when he allows it

 

[Unique]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BeckyWatts?src=hash">#BeckyWatts</a> trial has resumed. Shauna Hoare&#39;s answering questions from the defence in the stand.</p>&mdash; Heart West News (@HeartWestNews) <a href="https://twitter.com/HeartWestNews/status/660094621696065536">October 30, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[ColourPurple]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-live-6733548


But I agree, she seems to give conflicting accounts.

In a way he's created the ideal situation for paranioa to grow , through chosing to live somewhere where he's not really supposed to be living.

 

[TupeloMz]

[h=3]Matthews 'made Hoare pay £5 a week to be able to smoke'[/h]The jury heard Matthews did the food shopping for the couple and Hoare went with him.
Hoare said: “The majority of the time I would ask for something and he would say no - so I had to almost beg in a sense.
“It could be a sandwich or a pastry or a drink. Most of the time he would say no because it had too much fat in it.
“If he wanted something he was a lot more likely to say yes.”
The jury heard Hoare started smoking at 13.
She said: “At the beginning I would buy them but as time went on Nathan would buy them or I would take money out of the bank card and buy cigarettes.
“I would hide the cigarettes.
“Towards the end of the relationship I would take cigarettes to the shop and smoke - I would always have chewing gum in my bag to disguise the smell.
“If he was in a good mood and I was quite persistent he would allow me to smoke.
“He might have just woken up and just generally been in a good mood.”
Hoare said she had to pay Matthews to smoke.
She said: “I would pay him £5 a week for him to allow me to have one pack of cigarettes.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-live-6733548

Thank you for these summaries.
In my opinion this is another huge lie. If he had total control of her bank account how did She pay him? Why would he charge her for cigs if he already had all her money?
Idk...Guess I am trying to find some truth in anything she is saying.

 

[mrazda71]

I think some of you are seeing the controlling nature of their relationship as being very black or white, all or nothing and it's not like that at all. Some days you feel a bit braver or a bit sick of it so you do answer back and argue and other days if he's in a good mood he might be okay with going to the shops other days when he's feeling threatened or just woke up in a bad mood you wouldn't even mention going out alone cause you'd know what could happen if you did ask ...

 

[Callista]

I think hes trying to balance explaining how he could have killed her with not wanting to admit he over exaggerated his illness to claim benefits and possibly allow someone else to claim carers allowance for him. ( we havent heard that he claimed any disability benefits but I assume with all his conditions he may well have)

I agree with that ColourPurple, but I can't put myself in the mind set of a man who is accused of murder quibbling over benefit fraud :-/ it seems a silly thing to do if it muddies his defence.

 

[Tortoise]

Your right, it doesn't assist either of their cases. But in which case why be honest about this if not other things? It then leads me to wonder if he is being more honest that we are giving him credit for now.

the only thing he is being dishonest about is how the murder really happened and the disposal of the body. his reason for lying is to take the blame for everything so SH doesn't go down with him. he's made a vow to her at some point that this is what he will do and he is sticking to it. what does he have to lose?