GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #11

[Tortoise]

I'm not sure which way I'm leaning right now. Taken individually I think her explanations are believable but the more they stack on top of one another the more improbable it becomes, and the more likely that she is lying about SOMETHING at least. I'm just not sure what that is, if anything. I don't think she was directly involved in the murder - Nathan is too vehement on that point and I believe him. I think weirdly he has a sense of justice (even if it is twisted).

But I DO wonder whether she found out, late in the day, after he had disposed of Becky perhaps? And he BEGGED her not to go to the police? But then again I can't imagine why any normal person would want to stay with someone after finding that out, father of your children or not. It also would've been the perfect reason for her to finally be free of him. My thoughts on this case are honestly all over the place (as you can see) and I still don't know whether I think she was involved to an extent - which would explain holes in her story, or not at all, as she claims. I however do not think that she was complicit in the murder or kidnap. I also believe her when she says that NM was controlling and violent. I do not think fundamentally that she is capable of taking the life of a young girl.

what have you seen that gives you this impression?

 

[ColourPurple]

I'm not sure which way I'm leaning right now. Taken individually I think her explanations are believable but the more they stack on top of one another the more improbable it becomes that she is lying about SOMETHING at least. I'm just not sure what that is, if anything. I don't think she was directly involved in the murder - Nathan is too vehement on that point and I believe him. I think weirdly he has a sense of justice (even if it is twisted).

But I DO wonder whether she found out, late in the day, after he had disposed of Becky perhaps? And he BEGGED her not to go to the police? But then again I can't imagine why any normal person would want to stay with someone after finding that out, father of your children or not. It also would've been the perfect reason for her to finally be free of him. My thoughts on this case are honestly all over the place (as you can see) and I still don't know whether I think she was involved to an extent - which would explain holes in her story or not at all, as she claims. I however do not think that she was complicit in the murder or kidnap. I also believe her when she says that NM was controlling and violent. I do not think fundamentally that she is capable of taking the life of a young girl.

Thanks for sharing your views. Mine change all the time too. Currently I think she knew but am not sure she was involved in the actual murder. The mistake of NM placing himself in the kitchen, now makes me think she knew from very early on though. Were there no texts joking about kidnaps and attics , no messages to a girl they liked, no her accepting his fantasies about teens, no threesomes then I'd be less likely to think she was involved in the actual death.

 

[ColourPurple]

I think the point LLB was trying to make was that it may be something other than anti -ds which SH is on because nowadays a lot f people refer to other me ds (such as those for anxieties/calming effects) as anti-ds

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I know, I just think her lawyers will have checked what med it was before letting her claim they were anti-depressants . Maybe they'll name it later though if we have any statements from her Dr or social worker.

 

[YidArmyRach]

Jumping on your response - don't think that this thread is very anti SH. Take a look at the Uk& Eire fb page or Bristol Post and then you'll see anti SH. I think people on here on the whole are doing a very good job if taking what evidence has been presented to the jury and using that to establish informed ideas and opinions. We may not all agree but that the nature of the beast

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Totally agree with this comment. I think everyone who is doubting SH's story or accusing her of being involved, is backing up their comments with evidence. Whereas the FB page is like a lynch mob with people calling for hangings and all sorts!

On a different topic, is anyone finding it strange that NM apparently had total control over SH, controlling her money, her movements, her friends, her diet and her smoking habits ........... yet 'allowed' her to have Facebook. Meaning she had access to the internet, to dating sites, to social media sites, could contact anyone she wanted, could chat online and so on. She said she wasn't allowed out when he was at work - yet she had instant access to the world via the internet, so he couldn't control who she had contact with on there.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

This looks the same? http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-49923730.html#tab=floorplan


http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-51836689.html

And this but in reverse http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-55689182.html

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-51571318.html

Bear with me, just putting them all in the same place so I can compare floorplans in a minute!

 

[ColourPurple]

I'm searching Rightmove for similar houses. There are 2 further down the street (no 6 & 8 I think) then the little roads that branch off Crown Hill (Naseby Walk and Crown Hill Walk) have the same type looking at the fronts of them.

It's a 3 bed semi, probably a common design in the immediate area, but I can't find one that's been for sale recently. Has anyone managed to sketch anything based on the photos we've seen?

ETA Ignore me. I'm describing SH's house lol

No, all I've gathered is the stairs are infront of you to the right when you walk in the front door and the bathroom is kind of at the top of the stairs. So at the back of the house. Their room is opposite the bathroom so I assume their room looks out to the front and it looks like the other bedroom is near the bathroom as you can see a door behind where the bathroom door opens out.

 

[ColourPurple]

This looks the same? http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-49923730.html#tab=floorplan

And this but in reverse http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-55689182.html

Downstairs bathrooms then?

 

[Tortoise]

This looks the same? http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-49923730.html#tab=floorplan

And this but in reverse http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-55689182.html

so is that right, no upstairs bathroom? and no view of the hall or stairs from the kitchen, but a door into the lounge and a door into the bathroom from the kitchen.

 

[Alyce]

Paul Ekman coined the term “duping delight” to explain possible reasons for an increase in certain cues while lying was taking place. For example, fear and guilt associated with lying should decrease nonverbal cues such as eye contact and smiles, but the research shows us that eye contact usually increases during lying. Ironically, it is the reverse that is commonly thought of by the general public to be true. That is, most people think that eye contact decreases during lying. Two possible explanations exist for an increase in eye contact and smiling. One is that smiling happens more often because the liar is experiencing pleasure with the act of lying which has been extensively proven through research on psychopaths, con-men and pathological liars, the second says that a smile is in fact due to stress and embarrassment which causes a stress smile.


http://bodylanguageproject.com/the-...-read/duping-delight-eye-contact-and-smiling/


I found this interesting, considering the comments made re SH - on various sites - that she looked directly at the interviewer.

 

[LBB]

Diazepam is more for anxiety or as a pre med though. I had some before a minor op and I was chilled to the point of not being able to keep my eyes open lol

It can be pre-op but it can also be for something like this.

i haven't shared this here before as it is very personal and the trauma it caused is still with me today but I was accused of a financial crime and put on trial for it. I had not committed the crime (or any crime for that matter) but had to go through a trial. I was found not guilty. I still can't believe I have been through it to this day. It was horrific and terrifying.

It was this situation I was put on diazepam for, not that I wanted to take it mind (I know just how addictive benzos can be and was scared of taking them) but apparently my emotions were too distracting for the judge and he got very annoyed when I got upset.

Edited to say: This was very much anxiety but I wouldn't be surprised if SH is very anxious too, guilty or not.

 

[Tortoise]

This looks the same? http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-49923730.html#tab=floorplan

And this but in reverse http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-55689182.html

from those pics then, bedroom 2 is Becky's, bedroom 3 is the spare room and bedroom 1 is AG/DG's.

 

[epiphany]

Thanks for sharing your views. Mine change all the time too. Currently I think she knew but am not sure she was involved in the actual murder. The mistake of NM placing himself in the kitchen, now makes me think she knew from very early on though. Were there no texts joking about kidnaps and attics , no messages to a girl they liked, no her accepting his fantasies about teens, no threesomes then I'd be less likely to think she was involved in the actual death.

RBBM

Nathan & SH have now both testified that SH is not sexually interested in other females.

In this particular case, this simply does not ring true to me. They/She were and are between a rock and a hard place.

It's 2015 (bisexuality and/or sexual fluidity are much more acceptable). Additionally, she's only 21 yo, they don't have sex often, it "hurts" her, she wants it over quickly, she originally lied about the "kidnap/attic" texts, etc

Under any other circumstances, Shauna would most likely be willing to admit to her sexual attraction to females, even be open about it, but for obvi reasons she could not once brought in for questioning and cannot. It's her story, his story & they are sticking to it.

 

[YidArmyRach]

Downstairs bathrooms then?

Wouldn't a photo of it have been released if it existed?

We have seen photos of kitchen, living room, hallway, stairs, bedroom, bathroom (child's bedroom maybe out of bounds if the poor child even managed to fit in there?) and the garden. Seems strange if they left just one room out, as not all the rooms we have seen have been connected to the crime.

 

[ColourPurple]

It can be pre-op but it can also be for something like this.

i haven't shared this here before as it is very personal and the trauma it caused is still with me today but I was accused of a financial crime and put on trial for it. I had not committed the crime (or any crime for that matter) but had to go through a trial. I was found not guilty. I still can't believe I have been through it to this day. It was horrific and terrifying.

It was this situation I was put on diazepam for, not that I wanted to take it mind (I know just how addictive benzos can be and was scared of taking them) but apparently my emotions were too distracting for the judge and he got very annoyed when I got upset.

Edited to say: This was very much anxiety but I wouldn't be surprised if SH is very anxious too, guilty or not.

Thanks for explaining and I'm sorry you went through that.

 

[LBB]

I think the point LLB was trying to make was that it may be something other than anti -ds which SH is on because nowadays a lot f people refer to other me ds (such as those for anxieties/calming effects) as anti-ds

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Yes, that's exactly what I meant. You put it better than me!

 

[Tortoise]

Wouldn't a photo of it have been released if it existed?

We have seen photos of kitchen, living room, hallway, stairs, bedroom, bathroom (child's bedroom maybe out of bounds if the poor child even managed to fit in there?) and the garden. Seems strange if they left just one room out, as not all the rooms we have seen have been connected to the crime.

are you thinking of NM/SH's house? the floor plan being discussed is Becky's house

 

[ColourPurple]

Wouldn't a photo of it have been released if it existed?

We have seen photos of kitchen, living room, hallway, stairs, bedroom, bathroom (child's bedroom maybe out of bounds if the poor child even managed to fit in there?) and the garden. Seems strange if they left just one room out, as not all the rooms we have seen have been connected to the crime.

I think its Becky's house the plans are of. I thought we were talking about Sh's too at first.

 

[musicaljoke]

How do we know she is lying?

Answer: Her lips are moving.

 

[LBB]

Thanks for explaining and I'm sorry you went through that.

Thank you. I'm relieved it's over now. It's perhaps why I'm a little wary of trusting the decisions made by the likes of the CPS now. Every step of the way leading up to a trial I thought that it would have to be dropped yet it wasn't. Having never been in trouble in my life (beyond skipping a queue at school with friends once!), I just couldn't believe I was in the situation I was in.

It it has given me incite into why people do certain things in trials that don't seem to make any sense to an outsider as the emotions you go through in that process are awful. For example, in the run up to the trial I thought that if I had to go through it I wouldn't make it thhrough alive because it was too much to bear.my husband spoke to my legal team about my pleading guilty because of my mental health. My legal team went into a panic as the evidence against me was weak and they did believe I wasn't guilty. But in that moment it would have been far easier to plead guilty than not.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

OK. I've found several identical (from the outside) properties in Bristol. They all have the same floor plan according to the agents listings, and this is it:



Does that fit with what we know?

EDIT: this is what I believe to be a floor plan for Becky's house in Crown Hill. Obviously (grrrrr) theirs may be a different layout, but it's unlikely given all the others are the same.