GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #11

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  • #541
so you don't think he might have considered he would need SH on board as an alibi witness from the get go, I don't mean telling her after. I'd be very surprised if he thought he wouldn't have to prove it wasn't him, with Anjie knowing in advance they were going over.

If we assume his kidnap story is genuine, then no, I don't think he would see it as wrong. In his mind, he is doing it for his mother's sake. Becky would be scared but relieved to be safe and unharmed, she would be grateful to him for showing her the error of her ways. He would also earn the gratitude of his mum and DG.

Now it could all be a load of old cobblers of course, but this would seem to be his mindset if the motive really was what he has stated. He's deluded.
 
  • #542
Clio's linked it in her original message on the last page.

She has to have been wrong about the furniture because they weren't at home that day at midday. Unless they popped home with Becky's body and then went back to BW's house before Anjie got back. that's a possibility.

What time did Anjie get back, 12:30? They could have nipped home then, but why lie about it? If they definitely did go home, or even if just NM did, it blows the whole case apart as it's clear SH is lying. But unless that neighbour sent a text to someone at between 11:30 and 12 on 19th saying "next door moving furniture about" (or whatever reference to the noise) there's no way of proving it.
 
  • #543
That's not the point though. What we have to consider is how NM might see it - what was going on in his mind. This is the story he has presented, and presumably he doesn't expect people to find it unreasonable.

He's just trying to minimize the charges against him if it happened that way and not something that he, or they planned ahead of time. It sounds like they both have had extensive coaching on what to say at trial.
 
  • #544
Google maps says 8 minutes by car from CH to CML. Was there time?

Assuming it happened and they had cleared up Becky's belongings and room etc by 12 noon, home by say 12:10, shift some furniture around say 12:25, back by 12:35. Only just if Anjie got back by 12:45!
 
  • #545
Bugger / LOL!! I've gone back and deleted my links re that scheme. Can you delete any quotes you did, don't want to confuse people. We need to find the proper plans though!!
Haha I know - I've searched for Sovereign Housing applications and nada...

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
 
  • #546
If we assume his kidnap story is genuine, then no, I don't think he would see it as wrong. In his mind, he is doing it for his mother's sake. Becky would be scared but relieved to be safe and unharmed, she would be grateful to him for showing her the error of her ways. He would also earn the gratitude of his mum and DG.

Now it could all be a load of old cobblers of course, but this would seem to be his mindset if the motive really was what he has stated. He's deluded.

But if it went according to plan, Becky wouldn't know it was him.

Even though its a delusional plan, I'm not convinced he wouldn't have told SH so that she would be ready to lie for him.
 
  • #547
He's just trying to minimize the charges against him if it happened that way and not something that he, or they planned ahead of time. It sounds like they both have had extensive coaching on what to say at trial.

But it's such a ludicrous story, that you have to wonder if he is deluded enough for there to be some truth in it.
So much simpler and more believable to say they had a quarrel which turned into a fight and he lost control.
 
  • #548
I don't believe he planned to kidnap Becky "to teach her a lesson". There may have been a plan - "the plan", but the reason he's giving for it is for AG's benefit imho
 
  • #549
Google maps says 8 minutes by car from CH to CML. Was there time?

Idk if there was time or not but police have video of their car going to BW's house that morning. Would they have video of other trips to and from as well?
 
  • #550
Idk if there was time or not but police have video of their car going to BW's house that morning. Would they have video of other trips to and from as well?

Still catching up - haven't seen that video. Do you have a link? TIA
 
  • #551
  • #552
What time did Anjie get back, 12:30? They could have nipped home then, but why lie about it? If they definitely did go home, or even if just NM did, it blows the whole case apart as it's clear SH is lying. But unless that neighbour sent a text to someone at between 11:30 and 12 on 19th saying "next door moving furniture about" (or whatever reference to the noise) there's no way of proving it.

If the neighbour is a credible witness, as she seems to be, after all she does not waffle on the date, then the two suspects left the house with Becky, dead or alive. The reason for the lie may be to dissociate Shauna from the murder.

The neighbour's testimony is worth a second look and is nicely written up here: https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx...2B8ADC!1477&authkey=!ADtXLjozus6A4Iw&app=Word
 
  • #553
It's possible that Becky was still alive when she was removed from her home. Perhaps a nurse can confirm this, but I understand that when a person dies, especially in a traumatic death, they may evacuate their bowels or/and bladder. There is no evidence to indicate that this happened in Becky's home.
 
  • #554
I don't believe he planned to kidnap Becky "to teach her a lesson". There may have been a plan - "the plan", but the reason he's giving for it is for AG's benefit imho

For what it's worth I agree. Since he first explained it on the stand, the AG issue never seemed real.Only because I would have expected him to have shown more anger/bitterness in explaining his grievances in poor treatment of AG.

I think there was another motive( sexual/sadistic) but certainly there was a lot of jealousy surrounding BW's relationship with AG, felt by both SH and NM, but he won't really reveal that resentment obviously.
 
  • #555
can I ask what may be a daft question?

Where do posters think the dismemberment was carried out?
In the bathroom ( using coverings and a meticulous clean-up as per forensics ) or elsewhere?
 
  • #556
I don't believe he planned to kidnap Becky "to teach her a lesson". There may have been a plan - "the plan", but the reason he's giving for it is for AG's benefit imho

I don't believe it was the plan either. I believe the plan was to get over to the house when they had Becky to themselves, kill her and get her out of there as quickly as possible before Antje came home.

They called ahead to see Becky was home and Antje was not, they stopped for batteries and brought a specific list of equipment with them including two stun guns ... even a boot liner.
 
  • #557
  • #558
Ok, so here's my take on SH now after today and revelations of her childhood and foster care situation.

I feel badly that any child would have the type of life that SH had growing up. It must have been scary, sad, loveless and life altering.

SH is a survivor. Her formative years in foster care made her a survivor. She knows how to get by and she has proven it. She is smart and manipulative. In fact, I think she's smarter than him. She works NM. She plays on his moods to get what she wants and needs. She gains some form of control even though he may not realize it. She gets knocked around and gets back up. She is not one to be taken lightly. She doesn't close her eyes, sway back and forth, hangs her head and cries. SH isn't crumbling at all. In fact she looks pretty strong and forthright after today's performance. She looks straight on and tells you what's what. She laughs at comments or suggestions that she deems ridiculous. Her mental strength is much greater than NM's. She doesn't appear to have much of a moral code. She seems not the least bit concerned that they are playing and manipulating the system to keep their benefits intact and that NM was getting paid cash and most likely not reporting it.

I am not a psychiatrist nor do I have any training in psychology but I do have real life experience with mentally ill family members with personality disorders. SH shows no empathy. I see crocodile tears where warranted. She knows how to work a crowd. She lies easily and tries to say all the right things and my guess is that she has had to lie her entire life to get by. She may have sociopathic tendencies. She tells you what you want to hear to get what she wants.

But we also know that she CLAIMS that NM was extremely controlling of her, i.e., what she ate, smoking, hair length, ability to go out on her own etc. etc. My big question is....if he was that controlling of her, how can we believe that he did not demand help of her during the whole thing, from murder to clean up to dismemberment to getting rid of the body? She may have put herself in the corner with NM on that one.

I think the lies will come undone, the discrepancies will widen and we will see her for what she is.

IMHO SH has just as much ability to kill someone, if not more so, than NM. She has the fortitude and the brains to pull it off.
 
  • #559
can I ask what may be a daft question?

Where do posters think the dismemberment was carried out?
In the bathroom ( using coverings and a meticulous clean-up as per forensics ) or elsewhere?
Personally I think it was elsewhere - to dismember the body and not leave one piece of trace evidence???....the whole covering scenario seems too far fetched to me

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  • #560
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