GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #11

[CoverMeCagney]

Haha I know - I've searched for Sovereign Housing applications and nada...

This is the only thing I can find, designed by Quattro Designs but I can't find anything via that either. I can't believe we still don't know whether there's another loo in the house. It's a bit of a dealbreaker for me!

http://designbristol.ning.com/photo/aiken-streetcotton-mill-lane?context=user

 

[Gigi-G]

Loft..

 

[Tealgrove]

Loft..

I thought loft too however, there would be DNA and the Prosecution has based their theory on what happened saying she was dismembered in the bathtub. I would hope that forensically that house was torn apart looking for DNA evidence. I can't believe they didn't.

So where does that leave us because I can't wrap my head around the fact that there is no forensic evidence to suggest that it happened in the bathroom.

Bizarre.

 

[ColourPurple]

That's not the point though. What we have to consider is how NM might see it - what was going on in his mind. This is the story he has presented, and presumably he doesn't expect people to find it unreasonable.

And also if SH had told him about a similar kidnap plan from her childhood presumably she might not have thought there was anything wrong with the idea either so there would be no reason for him not to tell SH about it either ( in interview SH doesn't admit to a similar plan from childhood and instead says she doesn't know where he'd get the idea from)

Personally I think it may be that she told him about the childhood kidnap plan after Becky had died, when they were trying to come up with a story to use if DNA did prove their involvement at a later point, and they then decided to use that as the backstory.

As for what really happened to Becky, there's still many options including...
* A fight involving Becky and NM/SH/both could have broken out about the money NM owed Becky, and gone too far
* NM with his pending voyeurism charge could have been caught by Becky, watching or filming her and then panicked when she was going to tell
* NM and SH could have planned to go over and kidnap Becky to take back to their attic or to the wooded area but the plan went wrong
* NM could be telling the truth and he planned to kidnap Becky to teach her a lesson and accidentally killed her

With all the options I think SH was already involved or became involved in the cover up immediately after Becky died. NM's mistake in originally saying he was in the kitchen with SH when the door slammed, is what convinces me SH was involved in the cover up straight away and that SH probably wasn't in the kitchen either.

 

[ColourPurple]

Clio's linked it in her original message on the last page.

She has to have been wrong about the furniture because they weren't at home that day at midday. Unless they popped home with Becky's body and then went back to BW's house before Anjie got back. that's a possibility.

Could the court reporters have got the dates wrong?

I definitely think they had time to drive back home then back again in the 90ish minutes they had before Anjie came home, but I assume it would've been captured on CCTV like their first journey... unless NM was conscious of the CCTV and went another way there and back? Or maybe the first journey was only captured on CCTV because they did a detour to get batteries?

 

[musicaljoke]

Assuming it happened and they had cleared up Becky's belongings and room etc by 12 noon, home by say 12:10, shift some furniture around say 12:25, back by 12:35. Only just if Anjie got back by 12:45!

Becky sent her last text mssg at 11:03. She may have been murdered right after that.

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx...2B8ADC!1477&authkey=!ADtXLjozus6A4Iw&app=Word

 

[ColourPurple]

But if it went according to plan, Becky wouldn't know it was him.

Even though its a delusional plan, I'm not convinced he wouldn't have told SH so that she would be ready to lie for him.

Yup especially if she'd talked of a similar plan from her chidlhood

 

[Jinkasaurus]

I am a bit fuzzy on the whole kitchen/front door slamming details.

SH says she was in the kitchen and heard stomps down the steps, then a door slam, and then she walked into the front room to find NM sitting.

NM says he was in the kitchen with SH when he heard the front door slam.

Am I getting that right?

 

[Tealgrove]

I am a bit fuzzy on the whole kitchen/front door slamming details.

SH says she was in the kitchen and heard stomps down the steps, then a door slam, and then she walked into the front room to find NM sitting.

NM says he was in the kitchen with SH when he heard the front door slam.

Am I getting that right?

Yes.

I actually think they were both in the kitchen freaking out and trying to figure out what to do while they kept an eye on the downstairs level and their daughter who was supposedly watching TV.

 

[mrazda71]

Totally agree with this comment. I think everyone who is doubting SH's story or accusing her of being involved, is backing up their comments with evidence. Whereas the FB page is like a lynch mob with people calling for hangings and all sorts!

On a different topic, is anyone finding it strange that NM apparently had total control over SH, controlling her money, her movements, her friends, her diet and her smoking habits ........... yet 'allowed' her to have Facebook. Meaning she had access to the internet, to dating sites, to social media sites, could contact anyone she wanted, could chat online and so on. She said she wasn't allowed out when he was at work - yet she had instant access to the world via the internet, so he couldn't control who she had contact with on there.

I don't think it's odd, I'm sure he would've had to know what her passwords were and he could check it as and when he wanted to ...

 

[cottonweaver]

Loft..

I know judge and jury have seen the inside of the house, maybe they have been shown inside loft too?

It would have to be a fully "boarded" loft floor just because using a circular saw up there against the joists - difficult! ( Plus lighting but he could have rigged up lamps and extensions.)
Any noise up there would really travel next door too. ( Maybe the neighbour was out, whenever, wherever in the house the saw was operated. ?)

Can't get my head around how anyone ( especially him with little experience) could wield a heavy circular saw to cut up a body without assistance and still make the perfect cuts the pathologist described especially if the body was in a bath tub.

 

[TupeloMz]

can I ask what may be a daft question?

Where do posters think the dismemberment was carried out?
In the bathroom ( using coverings and a meticulous clean-up as per forensics ) or elsewhere?

It is very hard for me to believe it was the bathroom but where else it could have been, I haven't a clue. The only place forensic evidence has been found is the landing at Becky's house and the car. Impossible to be either of those places, isn't it? Next guess would be the loft and I don't know if we have heard how hard they looked for forensic evidence up there.

 

[ColourPurple]

can I ask what may be a daft question?

Where do posters think the dismemberment was carried out?
In the bathroom ( using coverings and a meticulous clean-up as per forensics ) or elsewhere?

To me, the biggest piece of clear floorspace they have is the landing outside the bathroom but it would need to be well covered as theres no report of Becky's DNA there so maybe it really was the bathroom which would be easier to clean. If he was really still using the saw two days later when SH claims to have been in the house and heard it, he'd also need to move the wrapped body parts from the bathroom to the freezer or blue box without her seeing. No doubt he did it while she was asleep again.

 

[ColourPurple]

I am a bit fuzzy on the whole kitchen/front door slamming details.

SH says she was in the kitchen and heard stomps down the steps, then a door slam, and then she walked into the front room to find NM sitting.

NM says he was in the kitchen with SH when he heard the front door slam.

Am I getting that right?

Yes he admitted yesterday that originally he made a big mistake by saying he was in the kitchen when he heard the door slam and SH was just coming into the kitchen from outside. The big mistake was that by saying they were both in the kitchen, they would both have to have lied about hearing a door slam if/when it was later proven Becky hadn't left the house. In order for SH to be innocent he has to be in a different room to SH when they hear the door slam so that he can claim to be the one that slammed the door in his confession.

 

[Cherwell]

But if it went according to plan, Becky wouldn't know it was him.

Even though its a delusional plan, I'm not convinced he wouldn't have told SH so that she would be ready to lie for him.

But I thought we'd established that it would have been obvious (oops!) that it was him, for many reasons.
And I'm certainly not arguing that SH didn't know all about it. I did start off by saying he/they.

Anyway, as I've said, the most believable scenario is that there was a row with Becky that went out of control. I don't understand why he hasn't gone with that, rather than the dodgy kidnap story.

 

[ColourPurple]

Can't get my head around how anyone ( especially him with little experience) could wield a heavy circular saw to cut up a body without assistance and still make the perfect cuts the pathologist described especially if the body was in a bath tub.

One handed and with his eyes shut too remember!

 

[CoverMeCagney]

If the neighbour is a credible witness, as she seems to be, after all she does not waffle on the date, then the two suspects left the house with Becky, dead or alive. The reason for the lie may be to dissociate Shauna from the murder.

The neighbour's testimony is worth a second look and is nicely written up here: https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx...2B8ADC!1477&authkey=!ADtXLjozus6A4Iw&app=Word

I'd really like to see the full transcript of what both of these ladies (the neighbour and her friend) said. Does anyone have any more info?

 

[Tortoise]

Ok, so here's my take on SH now after today and revelations of her childhood and foster care situation.

I feel badly that any child would have the type of life that SH had growing up. It must have been scary, sad, loveless and life altering.

SH is a survivor. Her formative years in foster care made her a survivor. She knows how to get by and she has proven it. She is smart and manipulative. In fact, I think she's smarter than him. She works NM. She plays on his moods to get what she wants and needs. She gains some form of control even though he may not realize it. She gets knocked around and gets back up. She is not one to be taken lightly. She doesn't close her eyes, sway back and forth, hangs her head and cries. SH isn't crumbling at all. In fact she looks pretty strong and forthright after today's performance. She looks straight on and tells you what's what. She laughs at comments or suggestions that she deems ridiculous. Her mental strength is much greater than NM's. She doesn't appear to have much of a moral code. She seems not the least bit concerned that they are playing and manipulating the system to keep their benefits intact and that NM was getting paid cash and most likely not reporting it.

I am not a psychiatrist nor do I have any training in psychology but I do have real life experience with mentally ill family members with personality disorders. SH shows no empathy. I see crocodile tears where warranted. She knows how to work a crowd. She lies easily and tries to say all the right things and my guess is that she has had to lie her entire life to get by. She may have sociopathic tendencies. She tells you what you want to hear to get what she wants.

But we also know that she CLAIMS that NM was extremely controlling of her, i.e., what she ate, smoking, hair length, ability to go out on her own etc. etc. My big question is....if he was that controlling of her, how can we believe that he did not demand help of her during the whole thing, from murder to clean up to dismemberment to getting rid of the body? She may have put herself in the corner with NM on that one.

I think the lies will come undone, the discrepancies will widen and we will see her for what she is.

IMHO SH has just as much ability to kill someone, if not more so, than NM. She has the fortitude and the brains to pull it off.

I am with you on every word here.

I find all her responses inappropriate. She is certainly no stranger to the art of manipulation, but I don't think she realises that when viewed over and over again, her manipulation becomes so obvious. As others have pointed out, her eye contact gives away her search for confirmation at key moments, she deflects smoothly away questions that she hasn't prepared yet to answer, fooling even trained personnel asking the questions that she has dealt with the question, and she does not have the capacity to feel for others - every feeling she describes is hers. Even when she says 'Becky was a nice enough girl, she didn't deserve this' you stop and think 'What did she just say'? That is like her best effort at expressing anything along the lines of empathy.

She even said something weird today, like 'I thought I'd send him an inappropriate text' (about bringing home a girl from the supermarket) and I thought that isn't possible. She is trying to make it sound like she had the wisdom of seeing how it looks now back then when she sent it.

 

[cottonweaver]

To me, the biggest piece of clear floorspace they have is the landing outside the bathroom but it would need to be well covered as theres no report of Becky's DNA there so maybe it really was the bathroom which would be easier to clean. If he was really still using the saw two days later when SH claims to have been in the house and heard it, he'd also need to move the wrapped body parts from the bathroom to the freezer or blue box without her seeing. No doubt he did it while she was asleep again.

Her version is implausible , his is plain ludicrous.

I'm sure these two are CSI/Dexter etc familiar so doubtless coverings were used as forensic person said was possible.

A flat surface is clearly easier- such as a landing, or the bath tub covered with a board and coverings?

Clearly there can't have been any nicks to the bath ( presuming it's a plastic one looking at age/rental of house they lived in.)
Forensic said it could theoretically have been done very carefully by one person... mind boggling....to me shows he was not "revolted", was controlled, focussed on his task. ( Ditto her, who must have been helping to assist holding limbs, sorry to be graphic, or someone else assisted which seems more doubtful. )

Am I right in thinking the bathroom was found "spotless" as if it had been deep cleaned? If so, something was probably done in there, necessitating the clean -up.

 

[mrazda71]

Clio's linked it in her original message on the last page.

She has to have been wrong about the furniture because they weren't at home that day at midday. Unless they popped home with Becky's body and then went back to BW's house before Anjie got back. that's a possibility.

Wouldn't they have been seen on cctv again at some point if they'd driven off and back again?