GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #11

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  • #581
Wouldn't they have been seen on cctv again at some point if they'd driven off and back again?

Thats' why I asked if NM could've been aware of the CCTV and gone there and back a different way for the middle two journeys, then gone home for the final time via the CCTV route. But not being from Bristol I've no idea if there is another way.
 
  • #582
Wouldn't they have been seen on cctv again at some point if they'd driven off and back again?

I wonder if it's been checked. If the police took them at their word that they came and went at the times they said, maybe they haven't checked the whole day.
 
  • #583
Her version is implausible , his is plain ludicrous.

I'm sure these two are CSI/Dexter etc familiar so doubtless coverings were used as forensic person said was possible.

A flat surface is clearly easier- such as a landing, or the bath tub covered with a board and coverings?

Clearly there can't have been any nicks to the bath ( presuming it's a plastic one looking at age/rental of house they lived in.)
Forensic said it could theoretically have been done very carefully by one person... mind boggling....to me shows he was not "revolted", was controlled, focussed on his task. ( Ditto her, who must have been helping to assist holding limbs, sorry to be graphic, or someone else assisted which seems more doubtful. )

Am I right in thinking the bathroom was found "spotless" as if it had been deep cleaned? If so, something was probably done in there, necessitating the clean -up.


Compared to the rest of the house yes and his former TA boss (can't remember his proper title lol) , told of how he had been trained to clean up his quarters so they were spotless.
 
  • #584
Reading through the one drive docs ( thanks to the kind person who has put these together BTW)

After the path lists all the injuries and saw cuts:
“They are all of similar orientation and they are consistent with a knife with a single cutting edge - such as a kitchen knife.”
Nathan stretches and yawns in the dock. Judge turns but does not say anything.
Ditto expressionless Shauna apparently.

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx...2B8ADC!1477&authkey=!ADtXLjozus6A4Iw&app=Word

Then in the next document in the series:
Black and white flower motif pillowcase with apparent blood staining,a green jumper with apparent blood staining with a cut right down the back.

Jury shown jumper. Items also found inside jumper, a used bloodied tampon and some small pieces of broken plastic.
https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx...2B8ADC!1477&authkey=!ADtXLjozus6A4Iw&app=Word


I assume this tampon has been tested and presume it is Becky's? Why on earth would that need to be removed if there was no sexual motive? ( First time I have heard this!!)
 
  • #585
Ok, so here's my take on SH now after today and revelations of her childhood and foster care situation.

I feel badly that any child would have the type of life that SH had growing up. It must have been scary, sad, loveless and life altering.

SH is a survivor. Her formative years in foster care made her a survivor. She knows how to get by and she has proven it. She is smart and manipulative. In fact, I think she's smarter than him. She works NM. She plays on his moods to get what she wants and needs. She gains some form of control even though he may not realize it. She gets knocked around and gets back up. She is not one to be taken lightly. She doesn't close her eyes, sway back and forth, hangs her head and cries. SH isn't crumbling at all. In fact she looks pretty strong and forthright after today's performance. She looks straight on and tells you what's what. She laughs at comments or suggestions that she deems ridiculous. Her mental strength is much greater than NM's. She doesn't appear to have much of a moral code. She seems not the least bit concerned that they are playing and manipulating the system to keep their benefits intact and that NM was getting paid cash and most likely not reporting it.

I am not a psychiatrist nor do I have any training in psychology but I do have real life experience with mentally ill family members with personality disorders. SH shows no empathy. I see crocodile tears where warranted. She knows how to work a crowd. She lies easily and tries to say all the right things and my guess is that she has had to lie her entire life to get by. She may have sociopathic tendencies. She tells you what you want to hear to get what she wants.

But we also know that she CLAIMS that NM was extremely controlling of her, i.e., what she ate, smoking, hair length, ability to go out on her own etc. etc. My big question is....if he was that controlling of her, how can we believe that he did not demand help of her during the whole thing, from murder to clean up to dismemberment to getting rid of the body? She may have put herself in the corner with NM on that one.

I think the lies will come undone, the discrepancies will widen and we will see her for what she is.

IMHO SH has just as much ability to kill someone, if not more so, than NM. She has the fortitude and the brains to pull it off.


I agree with all of this. My gut feeling is that SH is a premium manipulator and was likely the main instigator of whatever happened to Becky.
It is a common trait ( well , one that I have seen anyway in a few people I have been unfortunate enough to know over the years ) that the manipulator ( or bully ) will transpose the emotions/actions that he or she has across to the other person when telling their story.
I am not saying that NM was not violent and out of control, I am sure he was, but this would only aid SHs story of being the submissive one, when in reality she is pulling the strings.
 
  • #586
I've never ever smoked and I'm very anti smoking full stop and seeing a pregnant woman smoking makes my blood boil BUT I do also understand that it is an addiction and not always just a simple choice.

I'm awfully behind, but just had to say to this. She wasn't even what I would qualify as a smoker. She smoked maybe a pack a week according to her. Rarely could she smoke around NM, who she was with ALL the time according to the 2 of them. I smoked 2.5 packs a day for 25 years and the day I found out I was pregnant, I stopped. Sounds like she may have averaged 2-3 cigarettes a day. It actually is a very simple choice when it comes down to the health of your unborn children. Believe me, I personally know how much of an addiction it is, but she was a casual smoker at best, should have been fairly easy for her to go from a couple cigarettes a day to nothing.
 
  • #587
I find it very strange. It suggests to me that the child wasn't with her, and she can't cope with holding too many lies going on together in case she gets caught out. I wonder if she was still strapped in the car, and they brought her in when they decided to stay and tell everyone Becky had gone out.

This has been puzzling me today does seem really strange just to mention it imo
 
  • #588
Re the driving back from Crown Hill to CML and then back again to Crown Hill before AG returned from the hospital.
Time wise it could have been done, but in reality, why would they ?

If they had decided to go back to CML with Becky's body, why then return to Crown Hill ? It was not one of their regular * carer* days ( am trying not to laugh as I type that ) and I don't believe AG was expecting them to be there when she got home. After all, their sole purpose for visiting that day was to return the cake tin to MM ( AGs mother ) and they could easily have left the tin inside the house.

It would also have made sense not to go back. Then, when the alarm was raised for Becky, they could say they just popped in with the tin, didnt hear any noise etc, so didnt know if Becky was home or not. Thus muddying the waters regarding Becky's time of departure from the house.
 
  • #589
Reading through the one drive docs ( thanks to the kind person who has put these together BTW)

After the path lists all the injuries and saw cuts:
Ditto expressionless Shauna apparently.

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx...2B8ADC!1477&authkey=!ADtXLjozus6A4Iw&app=Word

Then in the next document in the series:

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx...2B8ADC!1477&authkey=!ADtXLjozus6A4Iw&app=Word


I assume this tampon has been tested and presume it is Becky's? Why on earth would that need to be removed if there was no sexual motive? ( First time I have heard this!!)


Somebody mentioned before the tampon being expelled by the body is something that can happen after death.
 
  • #590
Thats' why I asked if NM could've been aware of the CCTV and gone there and back a different way for the middle two journeys, then gone home for the final time via the CCTV route. But not being from Bristol I've no idea if there is another way.
There are so many CCTV cameras, both publicly or privately operated. NM would have needed incredible local knowledge and/or spectacular luck to avoid them all on any journeys he made.
 
  • #591
No matter how scared she was of him, did she really let her child live in a cold house and only wash with cold water? Wonder if that is why they spent so much time around Becky's house - using their hot water and heating?

Trying desperately to play catch up, and looking forward to the pages ahead lol, but THIS does not surprise me. Hearing she let her toddler run around outside for 20 minutes in frigid extremely windy rainy weather so she could smoke leads me to think that she was rather selfish and didn't hold the health of her child or unborn children in high regard. The state of the house was the first sign. There weren't just things laying around in the house, there was filth... unhealthy for adults much less small children.
 
  • #592
Re the driving back from Crown Hill to CML and then back again to Crown Hill before AG returned from the hospital.
Time wise it could have been done, but in reality, why would they ?

If they had decided to go back to CML with Becky's body, why then return to Crown Hill ? It was not one of their regular * carer* days ( am trying not to laugh as I type that ) and I don't believe AG was expecting them to be there when she got home. After all, their sole purpose for visiting that day was to return the cake tin to MM ( AGs mother ) and they could easily have left the tin inside the house.

It would also have made sense not to go back. Then, when the alarm was raised for Becky, they could say they just popped in with the tin, didnt hear any noise etc, so didnt know if Becky was home or not. Thus muddying the waters regarding Becky's time of departure from the house.


It might have looked less suspsicous to stay all day than to have popped in and out?
 
  • #593
If they did take the body home at midday and come back it would kind of make more sense to me - that they weren't worried about her being just outside in the boot with people coming in the house passing right next to her. What if a passing dog had picked up a scent? I wonder if the car was still reversed up on the drive when Anjie came back.
 
  • #594
This has been puzzling me today does seem really strange just to mention it imo

In those onedrive docs, can't remember which, an earlier one, she recounts that she was feeding shredded wheat cereal to the child during the CBeebies programme.
 
  • #595
It might have looked less suspsicous to stay all day than to have popped in and out?

yes and also that way they could monitor what the family decided to do about it. They are both controlling types IMO. Being absent would drive them crazy with not knowing if Becky had been reported missing yet.
 
  • #596
But she wasn't always pregnant when the loo was blocked before, or he may not have used toxic chemicals previous times so ...

Again, this part I don't buy. This woman lit things on fire (cigarettes) and inhaled toxic chemicals directly into her body on purpose. To think she was worried about the smell of bleach or drain cleaner? I don't buy it for a second!!!!
 
  • #597
There are so many CCTV cameras, both publicly or privately operated. NM would have needed incredible local knowledge and/or spectacular luck to avoid them all on any journeys he made.
True, one of my neighbours has annoyingly got a CCTV camera that covers the area around my house but we also have country lanes where you could avoid CCTV, not sure there's that kind of place where they lived though.
 
  • #598
In those onedrive docs, can't remember which, an earlier one, she recounts that she was feeding shredded wheat cereal to the child during the CBeebies programme.

all that could have been made up of course, little fillers to make it sound like any ordinary day.
 
  • #599
If they did take the body home at midday and come back it would kind of make more sense to me - that they weren't worried about her being just outside in the boot with people coming in the house passing right next to her. What if a passing dog had picked up a scent? I wonder if the car was still reversed up on the drive when Anjie came back.

Imagine if police had come round and said let's just check this boot...
 
  • #600
Yes he admitted yesterday that originally he made a big mistake by saying he was in the kitchen when he heard the door slam and SH was just coming into the kitchen from outside. The big mistake was that by saying they were both in the kitchen, they would both have to have lied about hearing a door slam if/when it was later proven Becky hadn't left the house. In order for SH to be innocent he has to be in a different room to SH when they hear the door slam so that he can claim to be the one that slammed the door in his confession.

I know I raised NM's "major mistake" yesterday but I still haven't worked out what it really means. He admitted, in court yesterday, that his mistake was telling AG he was in the kitchen when the door slammed. So, is SH is now guilty of perverting the course of justice by virtue of her "on the record" story of him not being in the kitchen when the door slammed?
 
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