GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #11

[Tortoise]

I wonder what the prosecutor has up his sleeve.

He needs to watch this one and make sure she doesn't manipulate him.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I wonder what the prosecutor has up his sleeve.

He needs to watch this one and make sure she doesn't manipulate him.

If you're reading, Mr Mousley, QC....

 

[Angelo]

And presumably SH hearing the stomping on the stairs is proof she's lying anyway. It isn't NM's version that he stomped or came down the stairs before slamming the door. He waited to see or hear SH and then slammed the door.

The other thing I find odd is that she said in her interview that she wasn't sure it was the wind but because she heard the stomping she knew it was Becky. Now then that is extremely interesting. Because it's obvious she's tried to put reverse thinking onto this. (is that a term?). You wouldn't think afterwards 'ooh was that the wind' if you had heard someone coming down and the door going. I don't know if I've explained that clearly but I know what I mean

Why would you think the wind closed the door anyway if you have no reason to think it's already open.

She will be undone yet!!

BBM~~

Yes! This was my exact thought when SH said that and then hearing NM's version. There was no stomping. SH is lying.

 

[Jinkasaurus]

If you're reading, Mr Mousley, QC....

I was thinking - could someone email him a link to our threads here to help him get some additional viewpoints as he prepares for Monday. :thinking: I think it would be fascinating to hear what a prosecutor of a case such as this would think of all our musings......

 

[Insp.Dots]

Today's compilation is now available for easy reading.


http://1drv.ms/1PTiBcr

This is great, thank you.

 

[Beesknees]

Oh boy, to lie is really hard work... Can lead to many faillures and discrepancies and also good memory is needed and implies to be very focused not to slip...

I have been thinking about all this mess. Not that it is the most important here but how, how can a person live after dismembering another person. In this case a family member, a young girl. How can they live with these images in their minds forever? Also, the profanity of a body. The intimacy there exposed in the most horrid way. A girl in her 16th year of life. They all are so conscious at these ages, so vain (in the sense of wanting to be fashion followers, to want to be pretty and beautiful). The tampon story is so sordid and painful. Oh Becky I am so sorry about what you suffered to die and what happened to you when you couldn't know anymore about it :cry:

This leads me to life and death, of course

I am not a religious person. I am am an atheist. So, I feel so sad when I hear that these poor souls are now in a better place, looking over family, shinning brightly in the sky, etc

Yes, they are shinning brightly in the hearts of the ones who love them and who miss them. They will forever shine in their memories, but the 'better' place they had to be was here where they belonged since the day they were born. Here, amongst family and friends, living in this world that though not being very good in many aspects is the Earth that we have and can be happy in. Being born, living and letting the others live, giving life to other beings, getting old and naturally dying.

How dare these disgraced beings take all of this from these persons, for nothing, because of nothing?

And what are these monsters living around us with no sign in the forehead saying 'evil', what are they doing here only bringing so much pain and misery to families and comunities? How are they created? Why are they so sordid and, as in this case, there is nothing esthetic and clean about their lives? From their dirty minds to their dirty houses, their dirty habbits, their dirty hobbies. There is nothing clean, clear, beautiful and appellative about them. And they are so young! And they are parents! They are responsible for the most importnt years in the formation of their daughter's personality! It's scary!

A note here about SH. For me she is as guilty as sin. In my opinion it is impossible not to be being with NM at all the time in a 'siamese twins' relation as they had. But I have to be sorry for her upbringing. To have been thrown along six(!) foster families during her poor childhood. It is not mandatory, but it might contribute for these disrupt lives and monstruous behaviours. Shame on her 'creators'! Eight children and no parental responsibility! ...

When I think of NM I think of the lyrics from the 'Bohemian Rapsody'

"Is this the real life?
Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide
No escape from reality

Open your eyes
Look up to the skies and see
I'm just a poor boy
I need no sympathy
Because I'm easy come, easy go
A little high, little low
Anyway the wind blows
Doesn't really matter to me, to me


I'm just a poor boy and nobody loves me
He's just a poor boy from a poor family
Spare him his life, from this monstrosity

Mama, life had just begun
But now I've gone and thrown it all away
Mama, oh!
Didn't mean to make you cry
If I'm not back again this time tomorrow
Carry on, carry on
As if nothing really matters
Too late, my time has come
Sends shivers down my spine
Body's aching all the time... ... ... "

_______________________________________________________

All my simpathy for all the 'Beckys' of this world. Respect :star:

All that were taken by these obscure minds that was a pity one day
were born to grow and kill and bring only sadness to so many people's lives.

I'm feeling really down tonight by all this. Excuse my rant.

 

[Kaly99]

I Have never heard that before CP. Just did a admittedly superficial search , the tampon used by MKercher was found in place and showed that R. Guede had left his DNA, there are other cases where them being in place after death has brought other forensic diagnoses.

I know a bit about that case and this is actually a mistranslation - "tampone" in Italian means "swab", and it was on the vaginal swab that they found Guede's DNA, not on a tampon.

In this case I would think that the process of dismembering BW's body and the manipulation needed to do that could well have caused the tampon to come loose, even if it hadn't been expelled naturally.

 

[Beesknees]

And before I go to bed, I have to ask about what I call the 'taboo'.

Why is it like a taboo to speak about NM and SH's child? Why isn't she mentioned? Do any of you have a clue? Can you compare to other trials? Does this use to happen? And it is not only their born child. Their unborn children seem to be also a taboo in this case. Why?!

Surely not for privacy motives as they could keep all the privacy not mentioning the name of the child or her details. And I don't think she was hidden during her 2 years of life, so it is in the public knowledge that they had a child. Why could this happen?

Could the little one be related to the four counts(!!!) of making indecent images of children that they both are charged of too?!

I can´t find any explanation for this at all. Any thoughts?

 

[Kaly99]

I'd be really interested to know exactly what SH and NM said to AG in the very early period after Becky disappeared. The thing is that if SH wasn't really outside in the garden when Becky was killed, then that story must've been made up specifically to keep her separate from the whole thing, so that she could plausibly claim she wasn't involved. Otherwise they may as well just have lied and said they were together in the lounge when they heard Becky leave, so giving them both an alibi.

If NM said he was actually with her when Becky left, doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of making up the story in the first place? Why lie and say you were separated in order to keep Shauna out of it, then lie again and say you were together, totally undermining the first lie?!

It almost seems as if they really were separate at that point and NM lied to give himself an alibi, only later realising this would implicate SH if he got caught.

 

[Beesknees]

I wonder what the prosecutor has up his sleeve.

He needs to watch this one and make sure she doesn't manipulate him.

The prossecutor can appear with something that wasn't mentioned yet? I mean something that may be a surprise to the defendants (and all of us, of course?)

 

[Clio]

No they must have changed the story after that at some point to being in different rooms. I wonder which of them realised the implications of what he'd originally said and how quickly.

NM had to change his story, SH doesn't have to change hers.

If they say they are in different rooms then it enables one of them to be the one slamming the door pretending to be Becky and the other to be the innocent person who hears the slam. If theyre both in the same room and it's later proven Becky never slammed the door then it means they both lied about hearing it slam.

Understand that.

So the only version where SH can be innocent is the one where they were in separate rooms. SO NM saying they were both in the kitchen would lead to a situation where they could both be proved liars ...

Understand that too.

but also if SH was innocent, him saying he was in the kitchen too when they heard the noise would look extremely odd/suspicious to SH as she'd know only she was in the kitchen and that he was lying.

If we assume that SH heard NM tell AG he was in the kitchen when he heard the door slam, then the above is true. We don't, however, know if this is the case. (Although it's probably not an unreasonable thing to assume).

I think - but it's late and I could be wrong. Thanks for explaining.

 

[Kaly99]

And before I go to bed, I have to ask about what I call the 'taboo'.

Why is it like a taboo to speak about NM and SH's child? Why isn't she mentioned? Do any of you have a clue? Can you compare to other trials? Does this use to happen? And it is not only their born child. Their unborn children seem to be also a taboo in this case. Why?!

Surely not for privacy motives as they could keep all the privacy not mentioning the name of the child or her details. And I don't think she was hidden during her 2 years of life, so it is in the public knowledge that they had a child. Why could this happen?

Could the little one be related to the four counts(!!!) of making indecent images of children that they both are charged of too?!

I can´t find any explanation for this at all. Any thoughts?

I'm very puzzled about this too.

The only thing I can think of is that maybe the journalists just aren't reporting anything to do with the child and SH's pregnancy? It's very odd that neither NM nor SH seem to have mentioned their daughter in their accounts of the morning Becky disappeared. Pretty much unbelievable, in fact.

I'm waiting to see if the prosecutor asks SH anything about her daughter being with her when she went for a smoke. If she really "forgot" to mention it, that would be a pretty big change in her story and he'll surely pick up on it. If he doesn't, then I think it shows the journalists just aren't reporting anything to do with their daughter.

 

[Gigi-G]

I thought loft too however, there would be DNA and the Prosecution has based their theory on what happened saying she was dismembered in the bathtub. I would hope that forensically that house was torn apart looking for DNA evidence. I can't believe they didn't.

So where does that leave us because I can't wrap my head around the fact that there is no forensic evidence to suggest that it happened in the bathroom.

Bizarre.

I think the loft is more likely. More space. And could of set up a contamination area with plastic sheeting and duct tape. I fail to see how NM could use a circular saw one handedly. And make clean cuts without the saw jumping against hard objects without any damage to the bathtub. I fail to see why no dna or residue of human bodily fluids were found either. The guy is not a csi officer. Even csi labs have to close down after a case and undergo a 'deep clean' NM wouldn't of had that detail of training of cleansing even in the TA.
We don't know if the attic was a focus for an intensive csi swoop. When NM had them focusing on the bathroom.

MOO

 

[Gigi-G]

If you're reading, Mr Mousley, QC....

Indeed Mr Mousley QC. If you're reading all these informative postings. It will give you plenty to use in your questioning. 😊

 

[Wallace]

Indeed Mr Mousley QC. If you're reading all these informative postings. It will give you plenty to use in your questioning. 😊

With the greatest of respect, the prosecutor has access to every scrap of evidence gathered for this case (admissible and non admissible). He and his juniors will have poured over every last scrap of that evidence. He is an experienced barrister of almost 30 years standing, with over 4 years as a Silk. He is attempting to prove that SH was complicit in the murder of BW, he will be thoroughly prepared for this. I don't think he needs any more help.

 

[ColourPurple]

NM had to change his story, SH doesn't have to change hers.

I was simplifying but basically the overall story (her version and his)has to change so that they arent together when the door slams.So yes she can say she's in the kitchen as long as he doesnt say he is too.

If we assume that SH heard NM tell AG he was in the kitchen when he heard the door slam, then the above is true. We don't, however, know if this is the case. (Although it's probably not an unreasonable thing to assume).


I think - but it's late and I could be wrong. Thanks for explaining.

She doesn't actually need to have heard, (though she would find out quickly from Anjie or police even if she wasn't in the room at the moment he said it). The very fact that he says it, is enough to know that he knew he could say it, without her immediately being suspicious of why he's lied (which she would have been if she were innocent)

 

[Gigi-G]

Oh boy, to lie is really hard work... Can lead to many faillures and discrepancies and also good memory is needed and implies to be very focused not to slip...

I have been thinking about all this mess. Not that it is the most important here but how, how can a person live after dismembering another person. In this case a family member, a young girl. How can they live with these images in their minds forever? Also, the profanity of a body. The intimacy there exposed in the most horrid way. A girl in her 16th year of life. They all are so conscious at these ages, so vain (in the sense of wanting to be fashion followers, to want to be pretty and beautiful). The tampon story is so sordid and painful. Oh Becky I am so sorry about what you suffered to die and what happened to you when you couldn't know anymore about it :cry:

This leads me to life and death, of course

I am not a religious person. I am am atheist. So, I feel so sad when I hear that these poor souls are now in a better place, looking over family, shinning brightly in the sky, etc

Yes, they are shinning brightly in the hearts of the ones who love them and who miss them. They will forever shine in their memories, but the 'better' place they had to be was here where they belonged since the day they were born. Here, amongst family and friends, living in this world that though not being very good in many aspects is the Earth that we have and can be happy in. Being born, living and letting the others live, giving life to other beings, getting old and naturally dying.

How dare these disgraced beings take all of this from these persons, for nothing, because of nothing?

And what are these monsters living around us with no sign in the forehead saying 'evil', what are they doing here only bringing so much pain and misery to families and comunities? How are they created? Why are they so sordid and, as in this case, there is nothing esthetic and clean about their lives? From their dirty minds to their dirty houses, their dirty habbits, their dirty hobbies. There is nothing clean, clear, beautiful and appellative about them. And they are so young!

A note here about SH. For me she is as guilty as sin. In my opinion it is impossible not to be being with NM at all the time in a 'siamese twins' relation as they had. But I have to be sorry for her upbringing. To have been thrown along six(!) foster families during her poor childhood. It is not mandatory, but it might contribute for these disrupt lives and monstruous behaviours. Shame on her 'creators'! Eighiht children and no parental responsibility! ...

When I think of NM I think of the lyrics from the 'Bohemian Rapsody'

"Is this the real life?
Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide
No escape from reality

Open your eyes
Look up to the skies and see
I'm just a poor boy
I need no sympathy
Because I'm easy come, easy go
A little high, little low
Anyway the wind blows
Doesn't really matter to me, to me


I'm just a poor boy and nobody loves me
He's just a poor boy from a poor family
Spare him his life, from this monstrosity

Mama, life had just begun
But now I've gone and thrown it all away
Mama, oh!
Didn't mean to make you cry
If I'm not back again this time tomorrow
Carry on, carry on
As if nothing really matters
Too late, my time has come
Sends shivers down my spine
Body's aching all the time... ... ... "

_______________________________________________________

All my simpathy for all the 'Beckys' of this world. Respect :star:

All that were taken by these obscure minds that was a pity one day
were born to grow and kill and bring only sadness to so many people's lives.

I'm feeling really down tonight by all this. Excuse my rant.

**e hugs** to you Beesknees.
It's such a mentally challenging mood altering case. I can only offer my strength to those in the Jury in this case.
And hope they find the resolve to find and deliver #justiceforBecky and her family. ♡Namastè♡

 

[Gigi-G]

With the greatest of respect, the prosecutor has access to every scrap of evidence gathered for this case (admissible and non admissible). He and his juniors will have poured over every last scrap of that evidence. He is an experienced barrister of almost 30 years standing, with over 4 years as a Silk. He is attempting to prove that SH was complicit in the murder of BW, he will be thoroughly prepared for this. I don't think he needs any more help.

Ohh I have no doubt he has. I was just merely trying to say that we at WS have posted up some valuable discrepancies. If he were to gloss over our ramblings here. ( which I very much doubt.) He may just see what sort of queries would be thrown up from the Jury's point of view.
I have no doubt on the extensive careers of any of the Barrister's. Just my pov 😊

 

[ColourPurple]

BBM~~

Yes! This was my exact thought when SH said that and then hearing NM's version. There was no stomping. SH is lying.

There's also the mention of Becky's music playing. SH says the heard it when they arrived and that she could hear it when she was coming in from the garden. She's then asked what she heard just before the door slamming and she says the music , then almost like she realises she shouldnt have said that, she says no, I heard stomping. And looks rather pleased with herself for thinking of that, as she remembers THATS why she thought Becky was in a mood. The stomping down stairs.

Soooo back to the music that she quickly changed the subject from... was it ever on at all? Did NM turn it off before he carried everything down to the boot and then stood hovering by the door ready to slam it when he heard SH come in? If so, unlikely she'd have heard it just before the stomping or slam. Or was the music still going after the slam? Could she even have heard stomping and a slam over the music? DID NM mention the music being on during or after the kidnap?

 

[ColourPurple]

**e hugs** to you Beesknees.
It's such a mentally challenging mood altering case. I can only offer my strength to those in the Jury in this case.
And hope they find the resolve to find and deliver #justiceforBecky and her family. ♡Namastè♡

Have to agree wih you both. I've been feeling quite down today too, and realised its probably a result of following the trial, so lord knows how the jury feel , let alone those who knew and loved Becky.