GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #13

[Gigi-G]

I think you're right ... except maybe for bringing closure for the family, I think if Becky had been killed by a stranger then a trial and sentence may bring some answers and closure but when it's family IN the dock I don't know if the same can be said ... not only have they had Becky taken from them but, Anji has also lost her son, daughter in law and almost certainly her grandchildren and once the trial dust has settled let's hope they can still hang on to each other for comfort because it has to be hard not to apportion blame or feel guilt in this particular situation

Agreed wholeheartedly. How does a family pick up the pieces and carry on. Especially when the perpetrators and victim are such close family members.
I wish Retribution was here. She'd Have such a huge input...
Anyways. As always respect to the families concerned. And Bristol's Angel can be at peace.
#justiceforBecky

 

[Gigi-G]

Has Anyone heard if NM or SH are being recalled to the Stand?
Just something I had seen in one of the tweets (forget from who) that they may be recalled?

 

[Cherwell]

The dog is a black dog, small/medium size. He can be seen being lapped by DG and also by AG in DG's Facebook page. There, in the same page, a picture with Becky, Dan (her brother), DG and AG can be seen. It was perhaps around the time they joined together as Becky appears to be 5 or 6 years old. They are all smilling and Becky is leaning her head in her dad's arm and has a cute sweet face

Yes, that's a lovely photo.

The dog is just a puppy in those pics, so would be bigger than that now.

 

[Hexenb]

http://www.itv.com/news/west/update...l-accused-searched-internet-for-missing-teen/

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

Not seen this before NM texting his mum

Hi, just thought I would update you, police have searched Shauna's house and obviously found nothing. Hope you are all managing as best as possible, I will see you tomorrow.

– NATHAN MATTHEWS, FEBRUARY 24

 

[Tortoise]

I suppose SH never looked in her freezer before the packages were removed. Wonder if she was asked about that.

 

[Tortoise]

This is my theory about the other people and how they came to be involved -

23rd Monday - NM/SH left CML in a hurry, with no plan for disposal of body parts yet.

evening - they have agreed the police can come in to search CML next morning. they decide not to risk taking their car back to CML in case police search it or seize it for analysis.

late evening - NM calls KD because he knows he has access to a works van. Says he needs a lift from Southmead and then to move some stuff tonight (robbery) because the police are going to search his home next morning. KD tells him JI will have to help because he has no car / can't drive the works van. NM knows he has to pay two people for their silence now.

Work-mate advises them not to use the works van if it is for dodgy business.

KD and JI take his advice and leave work in JI's car.

SH isn't happy that NM has told them its dodgy stuff and isn't happy that NM has doubled the money they agreed between them. She tells NM 'just tell them I'm kicking you out tonight.'

KD and JI pick them up in their car. NM is thinking wtf, I need a van. SH pretends she has fallen out with NM - stays quiet.

JI drops off NM & SH. KD gets out of car and walks away talking to NM. NM tells him you've got to change the story, tell JI I'm being kicked out, SH doesn't want anyone to know about the stuff. NM is worried about using the car to transport his bags. Is it because if he gets seen by police in a car with them they may be stopped and searched? Does he think the police might be watching his house? In a van he can hide in the back with the bags and not be seen.

KD returns to JI and tells him he has just seen SH shouting at NM to get out, crying. No-one's seen this but it is to convince JI that the story he told him earlier about dodgy goods was wrong.

NM goes with them to pick up the van because he wants to make sure they return, he has no other plan for disposal and they might let him down.

KD texts JP and says he has agreed to hide some dodgy stuff for NM and they are being paid £5k. Says she has to pretend to everyone that NM is being kicked out and it is just his clothes.

KD & JI and NM return to CML with the van. They shut the front door and do not put the lights on in the house in case the police are watching for unusual activity. They use a torch. NM finishes off packing his last case, JI stays in the hallway.

They put the cases and box and bag in the van and take it to KD's place. JI stays in the kitchen having a smoke while NM and KD go into another room. JI is curious if it is just clothing - he thinks its strange that they are being offered so much money for doing that. He looks inside a bag, sees clothing and soft package/s underneath.

Next night JI tells his flatmate in the pub after a few beers that he did a weird job for someone the night before and he's getting paid £5k. Tells him he thinks it could be dodgy because he saw a package and KD did tell him first that they were getting raided by the police and the stuff was worth about £20k. when his mate says don't be daft you wouldn't be given advance warning that the police are going to raid, JI tells him it could just be true that the guy's g/f was kicking him out and KD heard shouting/crying, but he still thinks it's dodgy that he's been offered so much money.

 

[mrazda71]

I suppose SH never looked in her freezer before the packages were removed. Wonder if she was asked about that.

Why would she? I recall we've already discussed that it was almost certainly not a freezer that was in use/plugged in even so, why WOULD she look in it?

 

[Tortoise]

Why would she? I recall we've already discussed that it was almost certainly not a freezer that was in use/plugged in even so, why WOULD she look in it?

um, to get food out? that's what people commonly open their freezers for.

what makes you think it was 'almost certainly' unplugged? where is the evidence for that?

and if it was unplugged there would be a stench after 3 days in that house. I seem to recall the pathologist saying the salt crystals around Becky's head were damp. suggests to me that it had possibly been frozen. there wouldn't be freezer burns as it was so well wrapped in multiple layers.

 

[mrazda71]

um, to get food out? that's what people commonly open their freezers for.

what makes you think it was 'almost certainly' unplugged? where is the evidence for that?

and if it was unplugged there would be a stench after 3 days in that house. I seem to recall the pathologist saying the salt crystals around Becky's head were damp. suggests to me that it had possibly been frozen. there wouldn't be freezer burns as it was so well wrapped in multiple layers.

Um, no need for sarcasm

1,Surely pathology would've mentioned if parts were frozen?
2, The freezer was in the hall, not the kitchen (a la cooker in the bathroom, also not plugged in/connected)
3, They/He was reluctant to use electricity.
4, It's already been stated that they didn't cook other than toast so what makes you think they'd have a freezer full of food?

 

[Clio]

Does this explain why KD and JI initially left their work place in JIs car rather than taking the van straight away.

From this snippet, it does seem that KD agreed with Mr Bignell that taking a work van would not be a good idea. Plus we know from yesterday's testimony, that JI was on a final warning with the Company.

( or could be my earlier thought, that a van would not work well, having to transfer NM, SH, child, JI and KD from Southmead to CML )

Mr Bignell said the pair then discussed taking a white van used to transport items around the Airbus site in Filton.

"What they were doing didn't sound very legal," he added.
"I said it wasn't worth taking the work van, it's not worth losing your job over. Karl did turn around and said he thought I was probably right."
Mr Bignell said Demetrius and Ireland then left the workplace and Ireland's Ford Fiesta disappeared from the car park.
Later, Mr Bignell walked to the car park and saw the car had returned but a white work van was missing.

http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/...tory-27953236-detail/story.html#ixzz3qXbhpdR5

Morning,

If Mr B is correct then it seems that KD/JI initially had planned to take the van but thought better of it. I can't help wonder what version of events we would be hearing now if they had gone to Southmead in the van rather than JI's car. There would have been no 40-50 minute gap between dropping SH at CML and returning to pick up the stuff. No chance for her to have gone to sleep.

I wonder what excuse NM would be giving to the police as to why SH didn't know or didn't care that he and his "mates" were loading suitcases and a box into a van in the dead of night from a darkened house? Rhetorical question (obviously!)

 

[Tortoise]

Um, no need for sarcasm

1,Surely pathology would've mentioned if parts were frozen?
2, The freezer was in the hall, not the kitchen (a la cooker in the bathroom, also not plugged in/connected)
3, They/He was reluctant to use electricity.
4, It's already been stated that they didn't cook other than toast so what makes you think they'd have a freezer full of food?

Apologies for my sarcasm, but I thought it was rather an obvious answer and your post came over as belittling and a bit shouty.

Peace.

1. I don't know. How would they know that - if there were no freezer burns. It was likely freezing cold temperatures overnight in the shed in February, and if they had only been in the freezer for a day or two it may be hard to tell.

2. most houses have plugs in the hallway - cooker has no relevance to the freezer.

3. even so, I think a freezer is probably an essential for people who may buy frozen junk food/ready meals/nuggets/chips etc. I'm sure they didn't have takeaways every day and I doubt they prepared meals from scratch in their kitchen using ingredients. The policeman said he doubted the kitchen could be used.

4. I saw a microwave oven in the bathroom. could have used an extension cord.

So there really is no proof the freezer wasn't in use.

If NM didn't want to freeze the body parts why not just hide them amongst the rest of the junk in the house? I maintain that NM took a risk by putting body parts in the freezer, after so carefully hiding the body in a locked bathroom (if you believe that - I don't). SH could have opened the freezer because there was a smell around it (if it wasn't on).

ETA - I think it is something the jury will likely ponder. That there was no guarantee SH wouldn't have opened the freezer, so he wasn't trying to hide it from SH at all.

 

[Tortoise]

Re the others involved -

if my theory is correct, it follows that -

KD definitely had reason to think what he was storing was dodgy
JP also "
JI may have had reason to think he had helped an offender, but had been given conflicting stories about it by KD, and didn't query why he had been offered the money. Possibly his mental health problems meant he wasn't able to discern who was telling the truth about what. I'd say he was puzzled.
DD unsure. He sounds innocent, I applaud him for his 'outburst' in court yesterday. He probably got wind that KD was doing something dodgy for NM but wasn't directly involved.

MOO

 

[ColourPurple]

Um, no need for sarcasm

1,Surely pathology would've mentioned if parts were frozen?
2, The freezer was in the hall, not the kitchen (a la cooker in the bathroom, also not plugged in/connected)
3, They/He was reluctant to use electricity.
4, It's already been stated that they didn't cook other than toast so what makes you think they'd have a freezer full of food?

I dont think it was the freezer in the hallway as that's where JI was standing and he said he didn't know NM had taken anything out of a freezer. If NM had taken something out of the freezer next to JI, then JI would have seen so more likely he used the fridge freezer we can see in the pics of the kitchen. pic 1 in the gallery here, top left of picture www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-shown-6628363 I imagine NM didnt prepack the frozen body parts into the suitcases before they went out for the day as they'd have started defrosting.

As for why would she go in the freezer, as mentioned before it's not even a case of why would she, it's a case of him being so sure she wouldn't. We haven't heard either of them saying that the freezer was a no go area like the bathroom, so at any point there was the risk that she might innocently open the freezer to take something, put something in or just to see if there's anything in there they could make a meal from...and find it full of body parts.

Shame we don't know what groceries they bought that day as it would have been interesting to see if there were any frozen products. There's empty yoghurt pots and an empty quorn box so they're definitely using a refridgerator part of the fridge freezer(can't tell if the quorn's from the frozen or chilled range) and an Iceland bag, not too much of a stretch to think they might have used the freezer part of the fridge freezer as well as the fridge part.

 

[Clio]

I asked earlier if we knew when the Snapchat messages were sent. Found this that I'd forgotten about

The jury also heard that Ireland, Parsons and Karl Demetrius exchanged a series of messages on instant messenger service Snapchat discussing the disappearance of Becky and the arrest of Matthews and Hoare on March 2.

Mr Groves explained that Snapchat allows users to send each other pictures and videos that are deleted after 10 seconds – meaning it was difficult for experts to recover the data.

One message found on Ireland's phone said: "We sort it in a bit."
And another message recovered from Parsons's handset said: "Relax we will sort it in a bit."
Later that night they were arrested on suspicion of assisting an offender and police found Becky's body.

http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/...tory-27997448-detail/story.html#ixzz3qbgT5ClR

 

[Tortoise]

I dont think it was the freezer in the hallway as that's where JI was standing and he said he didn't know NM had taken anything out of a freezer. If NM had taken something out of the freezer next to JI, then JI would have seen so more likely he used the fridge freezer we can see in the pics of the kitchen. pic 1 in the gallery here, top left of picture www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-shown-6628363 I imagine NM didnt prepack the frozen body parts into the suitcases before they went out for the day as they'd have started defrosting.

As for why would she go in the freezer, as mentioned before it's not even a case of why would she, it's a case of him being so sure she wouldn't. We haven't heard either of them saying that the freezer was a no go area like the bathroom, so at any point there was the risk that she might innocently open the freezer to take something, put something in or just to see if there's anything in there they could make a meal from...and find it full of body parts.

Shame we don't know what groceries they bought that day as it would have been interesting to see if there were any frozen products. There's empty yoghurt pots and an empty quorn box so they're definitely using a refridgerator part of the fridge freezer(can't tell if the quorn's from the frozen or chilled range) and an Iceland bag, not too much of a stretch to think they might have used the freezer part of the fridge freezer as well as the fridge part.

thanks, I hadn't realised there was another freezer in their house.

in the same picture there is a blue box that looks very much like the case for the power saw. Obviously empty by that time if that is what it was.

 

[Wallace]

I asked earlier if we knew when the Snapchat messages were sent. Found this that I'd forgotten about



http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/...tory-27997448-detail/story.html#ixzz3qbgT5ClR

Hadn't seen that before.

Probably explains why KD and JP submitted guilty pleas.

Looks like they were intent on continuing to help NM and SH after they were arrested, possibly by moving the bags and boxes to another location.

I have to say that despite DD's little podium speech yesterday I still think they all knew they were up to something extremely dodgy. DD could possibly have known the least but I still think he knew something.

 

[Alyce]

I asked earlier if we knew when the Snapchat messages were sent. Found this that I'd forgotten about



http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/...tory-27997448-detail/story.html#ixzz3qbgT5ClR

Morning

I realise that is limited info, from the snippets we are reading, but to me, that sounds as though KD was the one panicking or worrying about exactly what was in the shed...as both JI and JP seem to be trying to calm him down.

 

[YidArmyRach]

Hadn't seen that before.

Probably explains why KD and JP submitted guilty pleas.

Looks like they were intent on continuing to help NM and SH after they were arrested, possibly by moving the bags and boxes to another location.

I have to say that despite DD's little podium speech yesterday I still think they all knew they were up to something extremely dodgy. DD could possibly have known the least but I still think he knew something.

I took their "sort it later" comments to mean they would sort out getting rid of them out of the shed - to save themselves. I don't think they would have been thinking of helping NM at that point, after he had put them in that position. Remember too, they hadn't received their money at that point, and with NM in custody, they weren't likely too - so nothing in it for them any more.

Even at that point, they may have still believed it was stolen goods or drugs - and with NM and SH being arrested, the police would have been checking out all of their movements (NM and SH's movements) ....... so at some point, the police would be looking to see what was in the shed. I can believe at that point, they could still have been naive enough to think it was something other than Becky.

 

[ColourPurple]

I asked earlier if we knew when the Snapchat messages were sent. Found this that I'd forgotten about



http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/...tory-27997448-detail/story.html#ixzz3qbgT5ClR

Thats the night they took KP some MCdonalds? It could be the sort it from JI was referring to that, but JP's relax makes it sound like someone was getting stressed about something so yes maybe this is when they'd clicked that they might have something more than clothes or weed in their shed. Probably heard/read the news that NM had been charged with murder that day.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

So there really is no proof the freezer wasn't in use.

If NM didn't want to freeze the body parts why not just hide them amongst the rest of the junk in the house? I maintain that NM took a risk by putting body parts in the freezer, after so carefully hiding the body in a locked bathroom (if you believe that - I don't). SH could have opened the freezer because there was a smell around it (if it wasn't on).

ETA - I think it is something the jury will likely ponder. That there was no guarantee SH wouldn't have opened the freezer, so he wasn't trying to hide it from SH at all.

RSBM

I also wonder why NM chose to put one or two body parts in the freezer. Behind every action, there is a thought, even if it's illogical, so what was he thinking? Was this particular part starting to smell? Did he intend to store all parts in there but changed his mind midway? Was the freezer full and he could only fit one part?
I suppose we'll never know the answers. I agree, it was a huge risk that SH could open it unless he told her not to, and that in itself should seem strange. JMO