GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #13

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #701
christine megson ‏@meganewswest · 2m2 minutes ago  Bristol, England
"SH says she noticed noticing nothing in the hours following BW death"

christine megson ‏@meganewswest · 1m1 minute ago  Bristol, England
"We suggest they had already started to plan to cut Becky up"
 
  • #702
christine megson ‏@meganewswest · 40s41 seconds ago  Bristol, England
"Whole concept of the bathroom being out of order - do you really accept that she was oblivious of what was going on"

Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · 29 secs29 seconds ago
SH says knew nothing of plan to cut Becky up.WM questions that saying SH claims no problem with bathroom 20th AM -that night out of order.
 
  • #703
Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · 42 secs42 seconds ago
WM says that doesn't make sense as NM wasn't meant to have been there that day but with a friend
 
  • #704
With the Joint charge I can see SH getting a guilty for murder. She doesn't need to have actually committed the act herself.

Hi Jessie, can you explain the legal basis for this?
 
  • #705
If NM gets found not guilty of murder, can he still be found guilty of manslaughter?
 
  • #706
christine megson ‏@meganewswest · 30s31 seconds ago  Bristol, England
Prosecution suggests that SH and NM might have thought what happened to BW could even be funny

Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · 50 secs51 seconds ago
20th SH looked up parody " do you want to hide a body"

Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · 44 secs45 seconds ago
-WM: "is that just a terrible coincidence or does it point to fact that she knew what happened &they were still acting together?"

Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · 54 secs54 seconds ago
WM: "they thought what had happened to Becky was actually quite funny"
 
  • #707
My predictions,

NM will be found guilty of murder, perverting the course of justice and preventing lawful burial.

SH will be found guilty of perverting the course of justice and preventing lawful burial.

JI guilty of assisting an offender.

DD not guilty of assisting an offender.

But I'm prepared to be surprised. [emoji14]
Yep mines the same - I'll write a longer response when I get home.

Think the kidnap charge will be not guilty

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
 
  • #708
christine megson ‏@meganewswest · 56s56 seconds ago  Bristol, England
Prosecution suggesting that it would have taken two to wrap and dispose of Becky's body
 
  • #709
Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · 45 secs46 seconds ago
Says clean up would have taken hours and would have been easier with 2 people.

Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · 27 secs28 seconds ago
Says dismemberment would have been easier with 2 people.Says bath undamaged, bathroom forensically spotless
 
  • #710
If NM gets found not guilty of murder, can he still be found guilty of manslaughter?

He automatically is guilty of manslaughter - he confessed to killing Becky
 
  • #711
Siobhan Robbins
SH says knew nothing of plan to cut Becky up.WM questions that saying SH claims no problem with bathroom 20th AM -that night out of order.​



WM says that doesn't make sense as NM wasn't meant to have been there that day but with a friend

Brilliant. So glad he got that across!
 
  • #712
christine megson ‏@meganewswest · 25s25 seconds ago  Bristol, England
"DNA on the inside edge of a paper mask was attributed to Shauna Hoare"

Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · 32 secs33 seconds ago
WM - DNA on paper mask attributable to SH was found,also on rubble sack and black bin liner.

christine megson ‏@meganewswest · 1m1 minute ago  Bristol, England
"DNA attributable to SH was found on the inside of a knot in a blue bag and a bag containing Becky's clothes"
 
  • #713
Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · 50 secs51 seconds ago
WM says these are little piece of evidence and a piece of DNA on a piece of evidence couldn't prove case against her

Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · 44 secs45 seconds ago
...but need to pull all pieces together
 
  • #714
All the pros words at the moment are placing NM as the killer, HIM suffocating Becky. Is pros not allowed to question if SH was the one doing that not NM? Otherwise him referring to NM as doing all those things puts SH in the clear (for murder)?

I was thinking about this, and the prosecution in general, as I was doing the school run. Up to now, I have been disappointed with the prosecution and the rather tame nature of it, and the lack of challenging NM and SH's account of what happened. Then I started thinking that maybe the most obvious bit of evidence against them, is their own words.

I mean: for the jury to find SH not guilty, then they have to believe her story, and NM's story. So, they would have to believe that:

NM, a rather small man, badly affected with Fibro (to the point of struggling to hang up washing) was able to single-handedly overpower a fit and healthy 16 year old. They would have to believe he was able to tape her mouth with sellotape (not the easiest of tape to use) and put handcuffs on her without her fighting back - both of which actions are at least as tricky as hanging up washing. He was able to do this quickly and quietly - despite the pm evidence showing she had put up a fight, and stating it would have taken some time.

They'd have to believe she had taken 20 minutes to smoke a cigarette in the rain, with her child. That she hadn't seen or heard anything. They would have to believe she had heard stomping and a door slamming, rather than the sound of a heavy suitcase being dragged down the stairs. They'd have to believe NM was clean, tidy and not sweating when SH saw him immediately afterwards.

They'd have to believe his story that he just punched her once - regardless of the 40 injuries. They'd have to believe that NM strangled Becky, as opposed to pm evidence showing she had been smothered.

They'd have to believe this man who is always tired and in pain could carry a body downstairs, get it into his car, then carry it upstairs with no help.

They'd have to believe he cut up her body, using just one hand to operate an electric saw whilst having both eyes shut. They'd have to believe he could cut up a body, making no 'wrong cuts' and not even touching the side of the bath with the saw, not even once.

They'd have to believe that SH didn't notice any strange odour in her house, believe that this pregnant woman didn't go to the toilet often, was happy to wee in a lego bucket for days, and happy not to wash herself or her child for 3 days. This woman who was suffering from morning sickness remember.... but doesn't need the bathroom very often.

They'd have to believe that SH didn't find it odd that NM (who in her own words didn't do DIY very often) suddenly spent 3 days fixing a toilet .... that she didn't find it odd that a previously tight NM spent almost £100 on a saw to fix their toilet, then spent a similar amount on shopping. They'd have to believe she didn't find it odd that he was buying rolls and rolls of clingfilm (without seeing any of it used). They'd have to believe she didn't notice her shower curtain or bath mats suddenly go missing. She didn't question why he wasn't helping search for his stepsister, rather than fix a toilet.

They'd also have to believe she can sleep through the noise made by a number of men unloading heavy items from her loft, in the dark, right outside her bedroom ... amongst all the clutter.

They'd have to believe it was a coincidence that she decided to visit her estranged mother on exactly the day the police want to search her house, and they'd have to believe that she didn't find it odd that NM had arranged a lift home for them.

So, either the jury believe all of that ..... which frankly is laughable ...... or they don't believe that story, in which case -they would have to believe that something else had happened. So the only thing that could have happened must be the opposite of their story - that she did do it. If the story SH and MN are telling is so unbelievable, there has to be a reason for that - which is that the truth would tell a very different story, and would be easy to prove.

Is that why the defence has been so happy to let SH and MN get on with their story? After all, if they are pressed to clarify and explain things, they might come up with something more believable...... so by not grilling them, the ridiculous story is what the jurors have to debate.
 
  • #715
ITV Becky Trial ‏@ITVBeckyTrial · 29 secs30 seconds ago
Pros is suggesting SH "masterminded" the days after killing #beckywatts, trying intentionally to get away from the police.

ITV Becky Trial ‏@ITVBeckyTrial · 33 secs33 seconds ago
He says she was trying to "buy sometime, obviously to get rid of what was in Cotton Mill Lane". He says SH took the lead #beckywatts
 
  • #716
christine megson ‏@meganewswest · 43s43 seconds ago  Bristol, England
Prosecution suggesting that SH renewed contact with her mother and stepfather to buy some time away from the house

christine megson ‏@meganewswest · 34s34 seconds ago  Bristol, England
"Two of them working together to throw the police off the scent"
 
  • #717
Hi Jessie, can you explain the legal basis for this?

Do my best.
I think way back I c/p'd a text about Joint Enterprise and I'll put it up again if I can find it later.

In effect if there are 2 people and one commits an act that the other is aware of (possibly aiding and abetting even) and one commits an offence, say murder, they are both guilty of that murder - even though the other person didn't participate in the act. It is enough to have been there together to commit a less serious offence.

Badly explained I'm afraid - but later I will find the official text I had.
 
  • #718
I was thinking about this, and the prosecution in general, as I was doing the school run. Up to now, I have been disappointed with the prosecution and the rather tame nature of it, and the lack of challenging NM and SH's account of what happened. Then I started thinking that maybe the most obvious bit of evidence against them, is their own words.

I mean: for the jury to find SH not guilty, then they have to believe her story, and NM's story. So, they would have to believe that:

NM, a rather small man, badly affected with Fibro (to the point of struggling to hang up washing) was able to single-handedly overpower a fit and healthy 16 year old. They would have to believe he was able to tape her mouth, and put handcuffs on her without her fighting back. He was able to do this quickly and quietly - despite the pm evidence showing she had put up a fight, and stating it would have taken some time.

They'd have to believe she had taken 20 minutes to smoke a cigarette in the rain, with her child. That she hadn't seen or heard anything. They would have to believe she had heard stomping and a door slamming, rather than the sound of a heavy suitcase being dragged down the stairs. They'd have to believe NM was clean, tidy and not sweating when SH saw him immediately afterwards.

They'd have to believe his story that he just punched her once - regardless of the 40 injuries. They'd have to believe that NM strangled Becky, as opposed to pm evidence showing she had been smothered.

They'd have to believe this man who is always tired and in pain could carry a body downstairs, get it into his car, then carry it upstairs with no help.

They'd have to believe he cut up her body, using just one hand to operate an electric saw whilst having both eyes shut. They'd have to believe he could cut up a body, making no 'wrong cuts' and not even touching the side of the bath with the saw, not even once.

They'd have to believe that SH didn't notice any strange odour in her house, believe that this pregnant woman didn't go to the toilet often, was happy to wee in a lego bucket for days, and happy not to wash herself or her child for 3 days. This woman who was suffering from morning sickness remember.... but doesn't need the bathroom very often.

They'd have to believe that SH didn't find it odd that NM (who in her own words didn't do DIY very often) suddenly spent 3 days fixing a toilet .... that she didn't find it odd that a previously tight NM spent almost £100 on a saw to fix their toilet, then spent a similar amount on shopping. They'd have to believe she didn't find it odd that he was buying rolls and rolls of clingfilm (without seeing any of it used). They'd have to believe she didn't notice her shower curtain or bath mats suddenly go missing. She didn't question why he wasn't helping search for his stepsister, rather than fix a toilet.

They'd also have to believe she can sleep through the noise made by a number of men unloading heavy items from her loft, in the dark, right outside her bedroom ... amongst all the clutter.

They'd have to believe it was a coincidence that she decided to visit her estranged mother on exactly the day the police want to search her house, and they'd have to believe that she didn't find it odd that NM had arranged a lift home for them.

So, either the jury believe all of that ..... which frankly is laughable ...... orr they don't believe that story, in which case -they would have to believe that something else had happened. So the only thing that could have happened must be the opposite of their story - that she did do it.

Is that why the defence has been so happy to let SH and MN get on with their story? After all, if they are pressed to clarify and explain things, they might come up with something more believable...... so by not grilling them, the ridiculous story is what the jurors have to debate.


Well, when you put it like that ... lol. The story is BS, she HAS to have been involved at some point but I'm still not sure I could legally find her guilty of murder.
 
  • #719
Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · 43 secs44 seconds ago
Pros says NM recruited KD & JI to get items out of a house in dark.
 
  • #720
Well, when you put it like that ... lol. The story is BS, she HAS to have been involved at some point but I'm still not sure I could legally find her guilty of murder.

Doesn't matter if she was upstairs or down - joint enterprise
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
135
Guests online
3,425
Total visitors
3,560

Forum statistics

Threads
632,568
Messages
18,628,489
Members
243,198
Latest member
Angi7275
Back
Top