GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #13

[Orange Tabby]

Of course it was an act!

The Neanderthal to go with what he said was a joke of going near a girl and drag her by the hair to take her home (aye, what he did with Becky. I believe he also dragged her by the hair...)

The metrosexual to go accordingly to what both he and SH said about him using concealer.

Do you believe that 'porky pig' man is someone to use concealer?!

This was invented from the moment they learned about the make up on the mask...

Matthews told police he was an “emotionally unstable, psychologically disturbed, metrosexual Neanderthal” on 28 February. This was before Becky's remains had been found and before the mask which was stained on the edges with makeup and other related evidence had been found.

 

[Beesknees]

Matthews told police he was an “emotionally unstable, psychologically disturbed, metrosexual Neanderthal” on 28 February. This was before Becky's remains had been found and before the mask which was stained on the edges with makeup and other related evidence had been found.

Ops, sorry. Too many things spinning in my head. You're right.

 

[Gigi-G]

I can't find any smiles only those that are on my fone n they are static ones.... I want moving ones... lol 😬

 

[Gigi-G]

#justiceforBecky 🎀

 

[Cherwell]

Matthews told police he was an “emotionally unstable, psychologically disturbed, metrosexual Neanderthal” on 28 February. This was before Becky's remains had been found and before the mask which was stained on the edges with makeup and other related evidence had been found.

I wondered if he had some visible bruising on his face from the fight with Becky: a possible reason why he might have used concealer.

 

[epiphany]

The jurors will prob be able to work through it, overlook it, but boy did I want to smack the charismatic 29 yo twin when I heard he refused to turn over his cell phone PW to police supposedly bc he did not want to share with them the sexual videos/photos of his GF alone &/or with him that were on his cell phone.

It would obvi be consensual activity, albeit of a sexual nature & very personal, but think about it: do jurors, police, really give a damn about that behavior from a 29 yo male or even female anymore? One would think he would be more concerned with the charges police might levy against him, than of his fear of sharing the nude photos &/or recorded consensual sexual activity/exchanges with police, esp in light of the tech age DD came up in and his age. It didn't ring true to me as an authentic explanation...

He'll prob be found not guilty, but that ^^ (not turning over the PW to police) did give me pause

 

[TupeloMz]

I see what you are saying Epiphany, and idk how it is "over the pond", but here, in the states, having that sort of thing on your phone could lead to more trouble (depending on age etc) so I can kind of see both sides. I liked him tho. Jmoo.

 

[MamaJoJo]

I can't find any smiles only those that are on my fone n they are static ones.... I want moving ones... lol ��

When you reply to a post, whether from your phone or your computer, in the status bar (where you can bold something or change the font size) you will see a little smiley face. Click on it. At first you will see a box open up with six or so emojis. Click "more" and a few hundred others will pop up in a box. There are some pretty funny ones available.
illowfight2::deadhorse::takeabow::boohoo::desert::winkkiss::freakedout::floorlaugh::skip::yourock:

Have fun!

 

[Scorpio5]

With regards to DD, the one thing that has held me back from completely thinking he is innocent is that he has been out on bail so knows exactly what to say when it comes to showing empathy for Beckys family. I want him to be genuine, I really do. I'm still glad even if he has latched onto what to say to get a good reaction from the jury and general public that someone said something indirectly to NM & SH.

 

[Bathsheba]

I believe DD was genuine when he relayed his sympathy towards Becky's family. I also think he is innocent of his charge and was unlucky enough to have been unhappily living with KD and JP at the time. I hope he is found Not Guilty.
I hope both NM and SH are found guilty and given maximum sentences. I agree that SH knew everything and supported NM as an equal partner throughout the despicable crime. I also think they are both totally lacking in empathy.
With JI I am not sure what to think but wouldn't be surprised if they find him guilty. I have some sympathy for him. I am certain that none of them (KD, JP, JI & DD) knew what was in those packages.
This is the first trial I have ever followed and I knew nothing about law & court procedures until I joined WS. I feel deep sympathy for Becky and her family and friends and wholeheartedly hope for #JusticeforBecky. This case has affected me a lot. Thank you to all of you for your information and knowledge and the little bit of uplifting humour along the way.

 

[cottonweaver]

With regards to DD, the one thing that has held me back from completely thinking he is innocent is that he has been out on bail so knows exactly what to say when it comes to showing empathy for Beckys family. I want him to be genuine, I really do. I'm still glad even if he has latched onto what to say to get a good reaction from the jury and general public that someone said something indirectly to NM & SH.

Bail - hadn't thought of that - good point, it's bound to have had an impact and he has had plenty of time to think about what he is going to say and discuss it with others. It was "unique" so far to hear somewhere on the stand state the obvious - how grotesque the crime- so he "speaks for all of us" - have no doubt that he genuinely regrets assisting an offender.
IMO they all knew it could be a body just before the police came, I do think, in the early stages, they thought it was something like coke or heroin, but could that be "squidgy" really ?IDK, it's all gruesome.
Am surprised they didn't look in the bags, but equally it could have been so well packaged it was impossible to see ( I can't recollect exactly what the policeman observed about the first find, whether he had to open it in order to tell.)

 

[Orange Tabby]

I wondered if he had some visible bruising on his face from the fight with Becky: a possible reason why he might have used concealer.

I think the idea that Matthews might have covered up bruises with makeup is a very interesting one, and I’m glad you’ve brought it up. I know it’s been mentioned before, but I don’t remember how much discussion it has had. Here’s another view which may or may not be helpful.

The reason I don’t subscribe to that line of thinking is that it requires you to accept as true Matthews’s claim that he wears makeup, when he has – throughout the investigation and trial -- lied repeatedly. If Hoare supports him in this claim (and I forget if she has), then ditto. I don’t believe Matthews wore makeup and claims to the contrary from those two liars don’t convince me.

Matthews has said a lot of ridiculous things (I hoped to teach Becky to appreciate life; I used the circular saw with my eyes closed) and they were all designed to minimize punishment or culpability (Don’t convict me of murder, my intentions were good; My disgusting dismemberment project was so easy I didn’t need any help and thus you should keep Shauna out of this).

When Matthews says ridiculous things, my thinking is that we shouldn’t believe him. A man who sports beanie hats is a metrosexual men’s makeup wearer? Really?

Where is this makeup of his? Wouldn’t it be a simple matter for him to tell his brief and then get the evidence introduced in court? He didn’t do that, even though it could have helped his lover considerably.

I think Matthews claimed he sometimes wears makeup in order to falsely explain the makeup stains on the DIY paper masks, which pretty much everyone must believe were worn when the saw was used. I believe it is Hoare’s makeup and that it got there while she worked with Matthews. I also believe it’s Hoare’s participation in that despicable act that caused her DNA to be left on one of those masks.

I think this may be the point Beesknees wanted to make earlier: that Matthews only brings up wearing makeup when it is needed to take the heat off his girlfriend and that his claim of wearing wearing makeup is clearly a lie.

And to Beesknees, concerning your daily compilations of accounts and summaries: obrigada!​

 

[cottonweaver]

First trial outside of US I have ever closely followed.

As such, I was relieved by the less antagonistic aspect, the less adversarial nature, of your judicial process. I respect your system.

While not implying one system is superior to the other, I welcomed the Pros having respect for the jurors' collective intellects being able to piece it all together (mounds of circumstantial evid, imo) and Pros not going overboard in attacking SH, in particular...jurors can usually figure it out. Sometimes pounding away at a defendant can backfire (ie. Casey Anthony trial), esp in primarily circumstantial cases.

Course, I appreciated Pros use of sarcasm at times as well>their explanations are not bordering on being "ridiculous," removed from "reality," and "fantasy-based": Add them up, they ARE collectively incredibly ridiculous, not at all believable imo. I would have to suspend all logic, all reality, all common sense, in order to find SH not guilty of Murder charge, etc.

SH is more than an Ice Queen. She is a young and continuing-to-develop, hone-her-skills Sociopath imo. Most, would be terrified to having been in her position during those interviews and/or on the stand. I loved the Pros references to Sleeping Beauty, as well as to Lady Macbeth. She not only believes in hand-washing, but sleeps well and very deeply.

Pros nailed the motive: primarily, sexual combined with jealousy, hatred, etc. Who the hell offers up, when asked by police (particularly at only 21 years of age and having been sexually active with other females), as part of the Missing Person's Profile, an opinion of the 16 yo's MP's virginity or lack thereof of sexual experience? It's 2015. SH may think she can hide a sexual interest in females from the jurors in 2015, but her text messages & threesomes suggest otherwise. The bells were clanging during those police interviews.

SH and NM will both be convicted of all charges.

I am unsure of the others and have mixed feelings due to feeling empathetic towards both JI (Not the ADD piece, but the Autism piece), as well as DD, though for other reasons. However, I have worked with young adults with emotional and/or mental health labels. DD is 29 yo (a reminder) and clearly no longer a young adult. That reminder (his age) startled me for a second. He appears to have a bit of charisma.

:cheers: great post - always interesting to see what people feel about the US UK comparison.
BIB Ice Queen etc. These characteristics make her quite terrifying to me, even though they are likely the result of childhood trauma. It's an unpleasant thought, but I can visualise her, not too far off, with her new ID, some more kids, living well away from Bristol obviously. I hope I am wrong and that the Judge directs Jury to everything they know to gen up on circumstantial mosaics and what beyond reasonable doubt means these days.
BIB Yes he is adult. What do you mean by charisma epiphany - ability to work some charm? On the jury?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I believe DD was genuine when he relayed his sympathy towards Becky's family. I also think he is innocent of his charge and was unlucky enough to have been unhappily living with KD and JP at the time. I hope he is found Not Guilty.
I hope both NM and SH are found guilty and given maximum sentences. I agree that SH knew everything and supported NM as an equal partner throughout the despicable crime. I also think they are both totally lacking in empathy.
With JI I am not sure what to think but wouldn't be surprised if they find him guilty. I have some sympathy for him. I am certain that none of them (KD, JP, JI & DD) knew what was in those packages.
This is the first trial I have ever followed and I knew nothing about law & court procedures until I joined WS. I feel deep sympathy for Becky and her family and friends and wholeheartedly hope for #JusticeforBecky. This case has affected me a lot. Thank you to all of you for your information and knowledge and the little bit of uplifting humour along the way.

I agree, I believe DD was genuine too. He took the opportunity to express his feelings about this horrible crime, in which he played no part. Those feelings would have been his first reaction when he discovered what was in those packages, sickened and revolted to the core. NM & SH involved these unwitting people (KD, JP, JI) in their desperation to save themselves. They've shown no remorse or sympathy for taking Becky's life, as was expected, for me anyway.

NM is a sniveling coward and should be reminded that his actions will never be considered acceptable or normal. I don't believe in the death penalty, but in my view, people like NM don't deserve to roam free in our society.

It's a sad fact unfortunately, that these crimes, whether fueled by sexual perversion, rage, jealousy, greed or poor impulse control, will continue, nothing will deter it. These people delve into the darkest corners of their mind and ALWAYS believe they'll escape capture and ultimately, justice. So it goes on. JMO

 

[Clio]

I wondered if he had some visible bruising on his face from the fight with Becky: a possible reason why he might have used concealer.

When I first heard NM say he wore concealer I thought it was just another one of his many lies. Until I read that the mask with traces of SH's DNA was the one without the make up stains. The mask with the make up staining contained DNA from NM but not from SH. So yes, I think it is possible he had bruising which he needed to hide, probably from DG/AG rather than SH though imo

A white dust mask with apparent make up staining had DNA from Becky and Matthews on it, though "there is nothing to indicate Miss Hoare contributed to this result", Ms Morse said.

A second mask had Becky's blood on it, along with "all the DNA components of Mr Matthews and Miss Hoare", she added.

http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/...tory-28012947-detail/story.html#ixzz3qhPqE3Xn

 

[Clio]

When Becky's port mortem injuries were being described (19th October in the trial), Nathan's defence said " If Becky hadn't bled significantly from her neck injuries then possible that some of those happened before death." The forensic scientist conceded that these injuries could have been made before her death.

I don't think this was ever followed up - anybody know where he was going with this? I'm just curious as to why he raised this as a possibility.

Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · Oct 19
Nathan Matthews' lawyer is the one questioning Morse about post mortem injuries

Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · Oct 19
Morse looking at new diagram:If BW hadn't bled significantly from her neck injuries then possible that some of those happened before death.

Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · Oct 19
Now saying can't be certain if neck injuries before or after death. Abdominal still after death

 

[sar2them1984]

Bail - hadn't thought of that - good point, it's bound to have had an impact and he has had plenty of time to think about what he is going to say and discuss it with others. It was "unique" so far to hear somewhere on the stand state the obvious - how grotesque the crime- so he "speaks for all of us" - have no doubt that he genuinely regrets assisting an offender.
IMO they all knew it could be a body just before the police came, I do think, in the early stages, they thought it was something like coke or heroin, but could that be "squidgy" really ?IDK, it's all gruesome.
Am surprised they didn't look in the bags, but equally it could have been so well packaged it was impossible to see ( I can't recollect exactly what the policeman observed about the first find, whether he had to open it in order to tell.)

Yes he did I'll try and find link I posted before but PO stated he had to open clingfilm to see the contents

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

 

[sar2them1984]

I think the idea that Matthews might have covered up bruises with makeup is a very interesting one, and I’m glad you’ve brought it up. I know it’s been mentioned before, but I don’t remember how much discussion it has had. Here’s another view which may or may not be helpful.

The reason I don’t subscribe to that line of thinking is that it requires you to accept as true Matthews’s claim that he wears makeup, when he has – throughout the investigation and trial -- lied repeatedly. If Hoare supports him in this claim (and I forget if she has), then ditto. I don’t believe Matthews wore makeup and claims to the contrary from those two liars don’t convince me.

Matthews has said a lot of ridiculous things (I hoped to teach Becky to appreciate life; I used the circular saw with my eyes closed) and they were all designed to minimize punishment or culpability (Don’t convict me of murder, my intentions were good; My disgusting dismemberment project was so easy I didn’t need any help and thus you should keep Shauna out of this).

When Matthews says ridiculous things, my thinking is that we shouldn’t believe him. A man who sports beanie hats is a metrosexual men’s makeup wearer? Really?

Where is this makeup of his? Wouldn’t it be a simple matter for him to tell his brief and then get the evidence introduced in court? He didn’t do that, even though it could have helped his lover considerably.

I think Matthews claimed he sometimes wears makeup in order to falsely explain the makeup stains on the DIY paper masks, which pretty much everyone must believe were worn when the saw was used. I believe it is Hoare’s makeup and that it got there while she worked with Matthews. I also believe it’s Hoare’s participation in that despicable act that caused her DNA to be left on one of those masks.

I think this may be the point Beesknees wanted to make earlier: that Matthews only brings up wearing makeup when it is needed to take the heat off his girlfriend and that his claim of wearing wearing makeup is clearly a lie.

And to Beesknees, concerning your daily compilations of accounts and summaries: obrigada!​

Ok I've had a loo at all of the photos of NM we have had access to and he doesn't look like he's wearing makeup in any of them. Also, I'm pretty sure he would have had the pss ripped out of him if he'd turned up at the TA Base wearing makeup. MoO

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[Clio]

<rsbm>
Am surprised they didn't look in the bags, but equally it could have been so well packaged it was impossible to see ( I can't recollect exactly what the policeman observed about the first find, whether he had to open it in order to tell.)

Here is a description of when Det Sgt Dowding found the items in the shed.

At about 1am Det Sgt Dowding, accompanied by a forensic officer, went to the windowless garden shed with a key, unlocked the door and used his torch to look inside.
He described seeing a blue plastic chest, rucksack, suitcases and black bags stacked up inside and told the jury they decided to open one.
The officer said several parcels, wrapped up with layers of cling film, were inside.
...
"I examined the parcel by feeling it and tried squeezing and manipulating the parcel to see what was inside," Det Sgt Dowding told the jury.
"All I could say was squashy but there was something harder within the squashy material. We tried unwrapping the parcel to confirm what the contents were.
"It was, after two to three layers of cling film, it was apparent it was a right hand and the fist was clenched and severed at the wrist.
"The difficulty I had was to make sure what it was, so I squeezed the thumb and my own thumb and I was comfortable it was indeed a human hand."

http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/...tory-27983944-detail/story.html#ixzz3qhan6P4I

Here's another quote

Detective Sergeant John Dowding told Bristol Crown Court he discovered Becky's remains when cops visited the home of Karl Demetrius and his girlfriend Jaydene Parsons two days after Matthews' arrest.
He discovered a number of "heavily wrapped" and "squishy" cling film parcels inside a large suitcase found in a garden shed at the property in Barton Court, Bristol

.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/612067/Becky-Watts-trial-stab-kitchen-knife

 

[Tortoise]

When Becky's port mortem injuries were being described (19th October in the trial), Nathan's defence said " If Becky hadn't bled significantly from her neck injuries then possible that some of those happened before death." The forensic scientist conceded that these injuries could have been made before her death.

I don't think this was ever followed up - anybody know where he was going with this? I'm just curious as to why he raised this as a possibility.

Siobhan Robbins&#61490; Verified account &#61593; &#8207;@SiobhanRobbins · Oct 19
Nathan Matthews' lawyer is the one questioning Morse about post mortem injuries

Siobhan Robbins&#61490; Verified account &#61593; &#8207;@SiobhanRobbins · Oct 19
Morse looking at new diagram:If BW hadn't bled significantly from her neck injuries then possible that some of those happened before death.

Siobhan Robbins&#61490; Verified account &#61593; &#8207;@SiobhanRobbins · Oct 19
Now saying can't be certain if neck injuries before or after death. Abdominal still after death

What I have been able to establish is that there was blood on Becky's onesie.

We know that Becky's onesie was removed by NM or SH before she was dismembered, so it is unlikely that the blood got there during the dismembering, unless it was just spatter.

It was reported that there was blood on the straps of her onesie. I thought this strange, to hear the onesie had straps, and that it was short legged, so I tried to find an image of a George (Asda) leopard print onesie to fit this description. I found something that I wouldn't describe as a onesie, but more of an all in one type of nightwear, or lingerie, like a teddy.

I think what they were suggesting is that the neck wounds (screwdriver) bled more than the abdominal knife wounds, but that they couldn't say with certainty when she bled. One possible explanation for this could be that the stabbing in the neck occurred around the time of death, when there was no or little blood circulation. I don't think they were willing to speculate or draw a definite conclusion either way.