GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #14

[Insp.Dots]

Interesting that a lot of people believe that DD should or will be found Not Guilty after his compassionate speech on the stand.

In reality that compassion should only be taken into account when sentencing, not deciding if he is guilty or not.

In my mind he is guilty, but played such a minor role that he should probably not serve any further custodial sentence. 2 years suspended would be a good starting point.

I do think what he said on the stand will clinch what the Jury decide but IMO there is very little evidence to say he was in anyway involved. I personally think he was just unlucky enough to be in the house at time of arrests. Time will tell :moo:

 

[Insp.Dots]

BBM

I think, Becky's thread has flowed extremely well with a committed group of people who kept on track and worked the evidence to the best of their ability. Very rarely has it gone OT and when it did, it came back very quickly. I really dislike when threads become a battleground for this side or that side. I think the dedication shown by the posters on this thread to work the evidence and the respect that most showed for all opinions and thoughts is how I've managed to stay from beginning to end.

I typically leave threads when they become about posters' egos vs. the greater good.

Totally agree, it's been a great thread and great company. Thanks to all :happydance:

 

[Alyce]

I thought it existed!! Honestly! If there is stupidness, lazyness, evilness, and so many others, I thought that I only had to add 'ness' to 'plonker' to make it extreme lolol :blushing:

BIB well it does now - for me ! love it

 

[Insp.Dots]

Seconded, hope you're on the mend :wave:

Many thanks to you both. Long term sadly but could be worse and it allows me an excuse to spend hours sleuthing so I'm happy! Love this Forum :loveyou:

 

[epiphany]

Since NM had no prior drug arrests and appears to have not socialized much, why do the Others (minus JI who had never met him) immediately believe he had such a large stash of weed in his home? NM doesn't strike me as even indulging much in alcohol and/or weed, let alone being perceived as a dealer.

 

[Insp.Dots]

Yes indeed!

As the pros said, only in a world of fantasy, only in an unreal world could SH not be aware of evrything. In my head it is completely impossible. So, the fact tha she assumed nothing and pleaded not guilty to everythink in my mind was like a mockery of the intelligence of everyone and it put me even more against her and in the believe of her culpability from start to end.

You have a point there. I think SH would have been wise to plead Guilty to perverting justice at least. The Judge and Jury may well punish her total denial and inability to show any shock, horror or remorse.
I get that her Solicitor and aides may advise her not to react but I do think that most in her position (if innocent) would show huge emotion and be unable to control it.

 

[Insp.Dots]

I haven't noticed any "blind defence" of SH. Posters will often weigh a piece of evidence, to see if it could reasonably possibly be true. It doesn't mean that they are defending her. I think it was a good point that morning sickness in pregnancy can take the form of nausea without actually vomiting, because that hadn't occurred to me. We all need to look at the other side.

We have a saying "play the devil's advocate" which means putting forward the opposite point of view to test if it has any validity.

Agreed, I think we also have differences in the way we look at the case. I have tried throughout to look at it as if a jury member and tried to look purely at the evidence we've been shown.
Loving your Daily Compilation BEESKNEES, Thank you

 

[epiphany]

Re the courtroom's response to DD's testimony, breaking out into applause, as well as one of BW's friend's response in the open courtroom: Thank You!...does the Judge warn the courtroom audience not to do that again.

Are the jurors told to disregard or not be influenced by the applause, open responses, etc and/or would the Pros and/or NM's attorney "protest" what occurred, too?

 

[mrazda71]

I do think what he said on the stand will clinch what the Jury decide but IMO there is very little evidence to say he was in anyway involved. I personally think he was just unlucky enough to be in the house at time of arrests. Time will tell :moo:

He was in the house but didn't see anything, didn't hear anything, doesn't know anything? But he's innocent in a lot of eyes and yet Shauna didn't see anything, didn't hear anything, didn't know anything and yet many think she's the mastermind, the murderer ...

Both claimed to have been oblivious, both have no major evidence against them.

 

[ColourPurple]

He was in the house but didn't see anything, didn't hear anything, doesn't know anything? But he's innocent in a lot of eyes and yet Shauna didn't see anything, didn't hear anything, didn't know anything and yet many think she's the mastermind, the murderer ...

Both claimed to have been oblivious, both have no major evidence against them.

A bit different don't you think? Suitcases being kept in a shed in somebody's garden compared to somebody being killed in a violent struggle, their body dismembered and their body parts kept in a freezer you were putting food into?

 

[Beesknees]

He was in the house but didn't see anything, didn't hear anything, doesn't know anything? But he's innocent in a lot of eyes and yet Shauna didn't see anything, didn't hear anything, didn't know anything and yet many think she's the mastermind, the murderer ...

Both claimed to have been oblivious, both have no major evidence against them.

:freakedout:


We can not compare!!

 

[Insp.Dots]

Motive- Jealousy/Money
Though I don't think it was Murder,, I think NM went up to have some kind of altercation with BW and it got out of hand.
I still think the 'missing cheque' found in NM's loft may have something to do with it.
BW's Gran sent it to her, Did NM intercept and steal her post, thinking it contained cash?
Also have serious doubts that the ISA's actually existed. I wonder if the Police checked this out.
And 2 problems I have with the Kidnap Theory; Why would he have rung AG to say he was going there if he planned to kidnap? Why did NM take SH if his plan was to kidnap and had nothing to do with her?

 

[Cherwell]

Since NM had no prior drug arrests and appears to have not socialized much, why do the Others (minus JI who had never met him) immediately believe he had such a large stash of weed in his home? NM doesn't strike me as even indulging much in alcohol and/or weed, let alone being perceived as a dealer.

Those who profit from drugs are often not drug users themselves.
As for the rest, it's difficult to say without knowing exactly what was said, how plausible he was and how well they knew him. He might have hinted that it was something with a higher street value than cannabis.

You have a point there. I think SH would have been wise to plead Guilty to perverting justice at least. The Judge and Jury may well punish her total denial and inability to show any shock, horror or remorse.
I get that her Solicitor and aides may advise her not to react but I do think that most in her position (if innocent) would show huge emotion and be unable to control it.

I agree. Not so much about the emotions, but by denying all knowledge, she has irretrievably damaged her credibility. Her version, taken all together, is so ludicrously implausible that it suggests that she was involved in everything. If she'd owned up to helping him cover up, it would be easier to believe that that was all she'd done.

 

[mrazda71]

A bit different don't you think? Suitcases being kept in a shed in somebody's garden compared to somebody being killed in a violent struggle, their body dismembered and their body parts kept in a freezer you were putting food into?

We don't know, do we? That body parts were put in the freezer that was in use? Wasn't there more than one freezer in the home?

I feel that if DD had gone on the stand and not made the comments he did, which he'd had the chance to gauge public opinion on, that he wouldn't be given such an easy time - he was uncooperative, he deleted possible evidence.

 

[pappa rob]

Okay. We've all mostly got views on the outcome of the case.
But could you give a MOTIVE?

In most cases it would be sexual, jealousy or money. Rebecca didn't seem to have much money, so what does that leave?

 

[Insp.Dots]

He was in the house but didn't see anything, didn't hear anything, doesn't know anything? But he's innocent in a lot of eyes and yet Shauna didn't see anything, didn't hear anything, didn't know anything and yet many think she's the mastermind, the murderer ...

Both claimed to have been oblivious, both have no major evidence against them.

He was 'in the house' when Police went round and arrested JP & KD. I just don;t think there is enough evidence to prove involvement. SH may well be found Not Guilty but her 'Behaviour' hasn't helped her, way too many coincidences.....She went to her Mum's just as Police needed to do search, she was in house when BW was killed, she was in house when BW was dismembered, hidden and moved. She was with NM when he shopped for numerous amounts of clingfilm and sacks etc. She has shown a huge lack of empathy to the Family who she supposedly loved. Don't think any of that bides well for her, though evidence wise there is little 'concrete' evidence against her. I look forward to hearing the Judges comments on it all. MOO

 

[Cherwell]

He was in the house but didn't see anything, didn't hear anything, doesn't know anything? But he's innocent in a lot of eyes and yet Shauna didn't see anything, didn't hear anything, didn't know anything and yet many think she's the mastermind, the murderer ...

Both claimed to have been oblivious, both have no major evidence against them.

There's really no comparison. All that happened at Barton Court was some anonymous bags being brought into the kitchen, and then taken through to the shed. If he was really up in his bedroom at the time, which is a reasonable proposition at night, why should he have seen or heard that? Or thought it might have anything to do with the disappearance of BW, come to that?

 

[ColourPurple]

We don't know, do we? That body parts were put in the freezer that was in use? Wasn't there more than one freezer in the home?

I feel that if DD had gone on the stand and not made the comments he did, which he'd had the chance to gauge public opinion on, that he wouldn't be given such an easy time - he was uncooperative, he deleted possible evidence.

JI was standing next to the freezer at the bottom of the stairs when NM went to get the suitcases/body parts so unlikely to be that one and more likely to be the one in the kitchen but either way SH or even the little girl could have opened either freezer at any point.

Even before DD had made any comments, people on here were wondering why he'd even been charged so I take your point but disagree.

 

[ColourPurple]

Motive- Jealousy/Money
Though I don't think it was Murder,, I think NM went up to have some kind of altercation with BW and it got out of hand.
I still think the 'missing cheque' found in NM's loft may have something to do with it.
BW's Gran sent it to her, Did NM intercept and steal her post, thinking it contained cash?
Also have serious doubts that the ISA's actually existed. I wonder if the Police checked this out.
And 2 problems I have with the Kidnap Theory; Why would he have rung AG to say he was going there if he planned to kidnap? Why did NM take SH if his plan was to kidnap and had nothing to do with her?

It could even be that he'd found , maybe even from Becky that day, that the cheque had been replaced and so Becky had still got the money and his little plan had failed.


RE the ISAs , police definitely checked their bank accounts as they noted that they were transfering money between them to take advantage of the perks of the accounts, so I think we'd have heard if they didn't even have the money .

 

[Hexenb]

I think there's a real possibility that he wasnt involved. Sounded like he was going to help his brother with something, didn't and then was found "guilty by association" because he lived there and had mentioned dodgy dealings. I'd think that even if he hadn't made his compassionate speech but I'm really glad that he did make it.

I think the penny dropped when NM was arrested and they all knew they were in trouble I'm sure I read somewhere sorry don't know where they all met up to sort out what to do then they were all arrested at that meet up. I'm wondering if KD was asking for DD advice "help bro what do I do" I don't think DD knew it was Becky and I don't think the others knew it was Becky but, at the end of the day they broke the law