GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #14

[cottonweaver]

Could be, though one of them (Nm or SH)mentioned something about NM not supposed to be living there anyway)

With Tabak, the evidence that was deemed inadmissable due to affecting his right to a fair trial was

* Watching strangulation
* Leaving Joanna's body in the same position to how a blonde woman on one of the videos was left
* Joanna looking like one of the women in a strangulation video he'd watched.
* Watching two films where women were bundled into car boots(like Joanna's body was)
* After the murder, flicking between pictures of Joanna, and , on one occasion he viewed pics of Joanna at 7.37 then including strangulation at 7.38
* His use of escorts and prostitutes(which meant he was able to claim in court to be a shy sexually inexperienced man who'd only really had one girlfriend.)

1.It leaves me wondering if the reason the jury was allowed to hear about the rape video on NM's laptop was for the very fact that there was no proof it had been watched since 2014.

2. Which makes me wonder if there is more recent damning viewing by either NM or SH, that the pros and police know about, that can't be used because the judge has ruled that it would affect their right to a fair trial in the same way as Tabak.

Thank you for that full detail.

So point 1. is allowed because Defence give permission? Judge confirms it's ok to admit then.
2. yes I could never believe there was nothing of value since may 2014 ( a query I had ages ago) so it's good to find out that actually it doesn't mean there is no evidence, just that we haven't heard about it. ( If he is addictive, it makes sense , there is more.)

 

[ColourPurple]

Thank you for that full detail.

So point 1. is allowed because Defence give permission? Judge confirms it's ok to admit then.
2. yes I could never believe there was nothing of value since may 2014 ( a query I had ages ago) so it's good to find out that actually it doesn't mean there is no evidence, just that we haven't heard about it. ( If he is addictive, it makes sense , there is more.)

The defence may still rather it wasn't included but it's the judge who makes the decision and it looks like it was allowed as long as the "disclaimer" was added that there was no proof it had been watched since it was transfered to the laptop in 2014.

It could mean there's more evidence that wasn't allowed but I guess alternatively it coould mean that there was no further evidence.

How frustrating must it be for the pros in a case like Tabaks, where they know there are other major things that point to his guilt but can't mention them precisely because of how damning they would appear.

 

[Tortoise]

I can't work out why SH wasn't charged with murder until June, based on the kidnap texts.

The police had this information much earlier.

 

[Clio]

I can't work out why SH wasn't charged with murder until June, based on the kidnap texts.

The police had this information much earlier.

BIB Did they? When did they find the kidnap texts?

Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · Nov 5
Says messages about kidnap " really led to her case unravelling when they came to light"

ITV Becky Trial ‏@ITVBeckyTrial · Nov 5
Pros says when the kidnapping messages were found it was "almost the final piece of the jigsaw" #beckywatts

 

[Gigi-G]

I was a little surprised that the prosecution didn't spend some time focusing on that aspect when both NM and SH were in the dock. A few questions about their living arrangements and what they had told the SS. This would have demonstrated that they are both practiced and seasoned liars.

The Judge would of deemed it inadmissible if the Benefit scam had been brought up as it's not relevant to the case.

Just as NM'S charges of Voyeurism and Child Images. Even though it's kind of relevant. It's not relevant enough for this case. Hence a separate case needed to prosecute.

Also.... even though a 16 year old is actually and factually old enough to have sexual intercourse.
They are still treated as a'child' or ' minor' in Judicial terms.
So if NM took part in 3 somes with a 16 year old. Or had images of a 16 year old. Which assumably he has.
That's why he's being charged separately.
Even tho there is some relevance to the BW case. It warrants further investigation.

 

[Tortoise]

Did they? When did they find the kidnap texts?

Siobhan Robbins Verified account  ‏@SiobhanRobbins · Nov 5
Says messages about kidnap " really led to her case unravelling when they came to light"

they must have taken her phone when she was arrested and charged originally. she gave them her phone to check for call recordings. Would it take 3 months to find her texts, even if they had been deleted?

 

[Gigi-G]

This is true but I also assumed it might be due to NMs shame (relating to his family) and stigma (relating to society and I guess thus, his subsequent sentencing) that he has assaulted a young female relative.

I feel too that is down to his shame. He wanted to protect his Mother. As he states. But his 'plan' went grotesquely wrong. This is why I believe we have so many inconclusives. In NM'S videoed interview. Where he couldn't bear to hear SH'S name. And/or go over the details of the statement he made. He was ashamed/mortified that HE could of done this despicable act.
So he made a big scene of not wanting to listen or go over it again to save his shame.
Also he still wanted his mother to love him as her son that he was. He did it for her.
He wanted to save the gory barbaric details from her. To save himself.
In prison.... they'll be on a 'safe' wing. Out of General Population. Away from the likes of people who detest those who attack children. Because dear BW was still a 'child'
NM & SH (I hope) will be locked up for 23 hours of the day. For a very very long time.
Sorry for rambling. Jmo

 

[Gigi-G]

There is a threshold as to how much savings you can have before it affects your benefits. £5000 is below that threshold

Job seekers threshold is 16k
Housing benefit is from 10k
Other benefits including PIP (old dla) is 16k


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Ty for clarification. They would still have to provide evidence. And it can still be taken against them as it's money they can 'use' my MIL n FIL both retired a while back both are poorly n I had to apply for them to recieve some kind of benefit. But they weren't entitled to full amount as they still had 8k savings in a pension plan. It gets so difficult you can't see the wood for the trees lol

 

[Wallace]

they must have taken her phone when she was arrested and charged originally. she gave them her phone to check for call recordings. Would it take 3 months to find her texts, even if they had been deleted?

If she had refused to unlock her phone it can take months to bypass the security on some phones (iPhones for example).

Similarly if messages needed to be recovered from online accounts (WhatsApp, Snapchat, Twitter, etc) it can take months to get access from the provider if passwords are not surrendered voluntarily.

If texts needed to be recovered from the phone or via the service provider that can also take a long time as resources are scarce/expensive.

None of this stuff is immediate like it is on the TV. It always cracks me up when you see a TV detective randomly guessing passwords trying to 'crack' a device. In the real world that just doesn't work.

Most likely that it was on a follow up list which became less urgent once they were all remanded.

 

[Gigi-G]

think of the clothes Becky was wearing when she died, a short legged 'onesie' and a jumper. her arms would have been covered by sleeves, her torso covered, her face and legs exposed. he saw the massive bruising and swelling on her shin, and the bruising on her face.

his story is that she struggled when he was trying to get her legs in the case - hence the leg wounds
his story is that he punched her in the face - facial bruising.

he may not have known how the arm and torso bruising developed - was it pre- or post- mortem handling in his mind? go for the latter - it sounds like there was less of a fight.

just a guess.

I also think. If he (NM) had BW in a case or duvet cover. Maybe he bundled her up. And used the duvet much as a sack. Grasping the gathered end and the 'stomp stomp stomp' SH allegedly heard was poor BW being dragged more than carried down the stairs..
Jmo

 

[Gigi-G]

Oh what a charmer! Becky runs the house, Mum's a d***head! If NM had his way he'd be running their house! Rotten little ****! He's got the public purse paying for his child, typical! Nope, not enough, got to tear Becky down, his sworn enemy. So childish and practically insane! AND this is 2 yrs before he kills her!!
Hate destroys.........

So much for him saying he 'did it for his mom' with words like that against her how dare he! The utter contemporary of the ****!

 

[Gigi-G]

So much for him saying he 'did it for his mom' with words like that against her how dare he! The utter contempt of the ****!

Sorry edited as auto spell put in a wrongun lol

 

[Wallace]

Sorry edited as auto spell put in a wrongun lol

I was going to post something saying isn't autocorrect great when it does stuff like that.

It should be called autoincorrect as it usually introduces more problems than it solves.

 

[sar2them1984]

Ty for clarification. They would still have to provide evidence. And it can still be taken against them as it's money they can 'use' my MIL n FIL both retired a while back both are poorly n I had to apply for them to recieve some kind of benefit. But they weren't entitled to full amount as they still had 8k savings in a pension plan. It gets so difficult you can't see the wood for the trees lol

Yes because they were married - if they were both claiming singularly then their single ISA accounts would fall well short.. even if they hit the threshold it doesn't necessarily mean (aside from in the the case of housing benefit) that their benefits will stop - their benefits are deducted proportionately. I work with people with mental health/LD needs who will continually keep their savings slightly under the threshold so they aren't penalised...

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

 

[Clio]

they must have taken her phone when she was arrested and charged originally. she gave them her phone to check for call recordings. Would it take 3 months to find her texts, even if they had been deleted?

I think she probably had deleted them. They must have found the messages before 7th May because she was asked about them then and denied any knowledge.

During a police interview on 7 May, Hoare insisted she had not sent the messages and claimed Matthews or someone else could have used her phone
On her first day of evidence in court, Hoare admitted she lied in that interview because of "how bad it looked".

.
http://news.sky.com/story/1578913/shauna-hoare-lied-about-kidnap-messages

On Friday, Pros said that the messages were almost the final piece of the jigsaw. So what was the final piece I wonder. The rape video? The indecent images? Not sure we know exactly when they were found.

 

[Alyce]

I think she probably had deleted them. They must have found the messages before 7th May because she was asked about them then and denied any knowledge.

.
http://news.sky.com/story/1578913/shauna-hoare-lied-about-kidnap-messages

On Friday, Pros said that the messages were almost the final piece of the jigsaw. So what was the final piece I wonder. The rape video? The indecent images? Not sure we know exactly when they were found.

Would it be the DNA on the mask ? or had that already been found before the messages ?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Way, way back when NM was arrested I think, he gave an address as Hazelbury Drive in Warmley, South Gloucestershire. I asked at the time whose house that was but am not sure if we ever worked it out. Any idea?

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-...ristol-Crown/story-26129077-detail/story.html

Also, just noticed that article states there were 1200 exhibits to be examined!!!

 

[Tortoise]

If she had refused to unlock her phone it can take months to bypass the security on some phones (iPhones for example).

Similarly if messages needed to be recovered from online accounts (WhatsApp, Snapchat, Twitter, etc) it can take months to get access from the provider if passwords are not surrendered voluntarily.

If texts needed to be recovered from the phone or via the service provider that can also take a long time as resources are scarce/expensive.

None of this stuff is immediate like it is on the TV. It always cracks me up when you see a TV detective randomly guessing passwords trying to 'crack' a device. In the real world that just doesn't work.

Most likely that it was on a follow up list which became less urgent once they were all remanded.

good points but as she was maintaining her innocence it would have looked a bit odd if she'd not removed her password for them and it would have been pointed out in court as another point against her, like it was in DD's case.

 

[Yozzer]

Way, way back when NM was arrested I think, he gave an address as Hazelbury Drive in Warmley, South Gloucestershire. I asked at the time whose house that was but am not sure if we ever worked it out. Any idea?

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-...ristol-Crown/story-26129077-detail/story.html

Also, just noticed that article states there were 1200 exhibits to be examined!!!

Think it was his grandparents' property.

 

[Tortoise]

I also think. If he (NM) had BW in a case or duvet cover. Maybe he bundled her up. And used the duvet much as a sack. Grasping the gathered end and the 'stomp stomp stomp' SH allegedly heard was poor BW being dragged more than carried down the stairs..
Jmo

I don't believe one bit of SH's account - neither the stomping nor the door slam we've discussed extensively. But I can imagine Becky being bumped and dragged rather than carried.