GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #15

[ColourPurple]

Did police miss a vital chance to solve horrific Becky Watts case sooner?

Police may have missed a vital chance to solve Becky Watts' murder sooner, an expert has said.


Rowland Stone, a former Scotland Yard dog handler, wants to know why it took cops six days to bring animals into the search.


The delay could have given her murderer stepbrother Nathan Matthews time to cover his tracks, says Mr Stone.


Matthews strangled Becky, then stabbed her lifeless corpse 15 times.


The blood traces left by his frenzied attack would have been picked up if dogs had been brought in sooner, Mr Stone told the Telegraph.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-police-miss-6814915

 

[ColourPurple]

Sick Becky Watts killer Nathan Matthews spent 'time in morgues messing with bodies'

The twisted killer boasted to a friend how his time in the Territorial Army (TA) allowed him access to a morgue

The friend, who grew up with Matthews, revealed how the twisted killer would boast how his time in the Territorial Army (TA) allowed him access to a morgue.


Matthews even used a grainy mobile phone picture of him in the morgue as his Facebook profile picture showing him in his TA uniform in front of a bank of bodies.


The childhood friend said: "We just thought it was his sick humour, we would never have guessed he was such a dark character.


"He would boast how the skills he learnt in the TA meant he could easily kill and this and that but I just used to ignore him to be honest but now it seems really creepy.

"I never would have thought it had anything to do with dead bodies.


"Nathan loves the sound of his own voice and he loved a cruel prank.


"He was a bully and he would joke about messing with the bodies in a morgue he access to while he was in the TA.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sick-becky-watts-killer-nathan-6814224

 

[ColourPurple]

Becky's first word was 'Nathan'

In a cruel twist of fate, Becky Watts' first word was the name of her killer.


The murdered schoolgirl didn’t speak until she was three years old.


When she did her first clear utterance was the name of her vile stepbrother.


Speaking to the BBC, her dad Darren Galsworthy said: “Ironically her first clear word was Nathan.


“They were like brother and sister - they acted like it as well."

There was an "underlying tension" between them, he adds.

"They were both fighting for Anjie's attention... nothing was said, you just let it pass.


"We didn't see any danger in it."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/murdered-schoolgirl-becky-watts-first-6814718

 

[YidArmyRach]

After hearing the statement from Becky's mother saying that it is important to listen to teenagers and don't ignore or dismiss what they tell you - and if they are worried about something take your time to listen to them .......... well for the first time I am wondering if NM and SH were actually planning to "scare" Becky (I mean if it was a sexual assault, it would scare her), rather than kill her, because they were totally confident that she wouldn't tell on them, or she wouldn't be believed. Maybe this time she threatened to tell someone different - such as her boyfriend - and they panicked.

I wonder exactly what Becky had told people in the past, and what had been dismissed? And I wonder if this wasn't the first time that NM and SH had done something to Becky.

That particular comment was loaded with meaning in my opinion.

 

[Tortoise]

Hello, me again! Hope I'm not totally boring everybody or repeating the obvious, if so let me know!

NM had already admitted killing Becky. To find him guilty of murder the prosecution only had to prove beyond reasonable doubt he intended to cause grievous (serious) bodily harm to her. Clearly the jury believed this was achieved, probably from evidence such as his threats to her, her telling the psychiatrist she was afraid of him, the stun guns, the weapons he said he took with him, and the video.

In order to charge SH with murder, the bar was set much higher and the jury probably didn't think that the prosecution had proved it beyond reasonable doubt. It doesn't mean they believed NM's pack of lies or didn't think she was involved. Just that there wasn't enough evidence there for a conviction.

By the way, I'm useless with technology and thought I'd already posted this but can't find it, so apologies if it's a duplicate.

thank you legal. that makes sense.

 

[Coldpizza]

I want to take a moment to thank you all.

What a horrible and tragic case and what a wonderful group you all have been posting your thoughts and tears surrounding this despicable murder.

Justice has been served and may the families affected in some way be at peace some day.

Becky fly high, we will never forget you.

 

[ColourPurple]

The Mail has gone for an angle that seems sympathetic to Shauna...

The killer who was pregnant with twins: How Shauna Hoare fell under the spell of Nathan Matthews when she was just 14 and was expecting his children when he murdered Becky Watts

Bounced from foster home to foster home, Shauna Hoare's childhood was a dysfunctional and disturbing one that began when her mother remarried soon after she was born.

Before she had even reached school age, Hoare found herself taken into care and later brought up by six different foster families.

She maintained contact with her mother, Lisa Donovan, who had seven other children with three different men, but the pair would later become estranged as a controlling Nathan Matthews ramped up his grooming of the teenager.

How involved Hoare's Irish father Ernest was in her young life is unclear. He himself remarried in 2003 and had two more children in addition to the four he and Ms Donovan had together.

When she turned 13, Hoare moved back in with Ms Donovan in Bristol, but the two lost contact four years later and remained estranged until the former turned up on her mother's doorstep days after Becky's death.

Matthews was later to reveal in a police interview that Hoare was pregnant with his twins when she became a killer. She is no longer pregnant.

While living with her mother, Hoare went to The Grange School in Keynsham and once claimed that on her way to school one morning she was the victim of a horrific attack.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3314269/Passed-six-foster-families-falling-spell-Matthews-aged-just-14-Shauna-Hoare-pregnant-twins-killer.html#ixzz3rEZuCTVD

 

[Gigi-G]

I want to take a moment to thank you all.

What a horrible and tragic case and what a wonderful group you all have been posting your thoughts and tears surrounding this despicable murder.

Justice has been served and may the families affected in some way be at peace some day.

Becky fly high, we will never forget you.

Thankyou Coldpizza.
Enabling us to post comments in the hope that maybe it could be of use. To help in any way. Big or small. To give a voice to those who are missing. Loved ones, dear ones. Departed ones.
You do a cracking job at keeping us all reined in. Lol. .
Bless ya ☺

 

[Gigi-G]

Did police miss a vital chance to solve horrific Becky Watts case sooner?



http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-police-miss-6814915

The Mirror have ran a huge amount of info following the Verdicts issued earlier today.
I'm positive that we'll see more Stories come to light. Interviews with former colleagues etc.
A&S Police I think will be Scrutinised YET again. As they were on the Joanna Yates case. As quoted above. Why were dogs not introduced earlier. Etc etc.
And I would of thought having reasonable doubt about CML. The Police could of got a Warrant issued with permission to gain entry if NM or SH weren't there at the time.
Both situations with the sniffer dogs and a Search warrant. Could of changed the course of the case dramatically.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Let's hope that answers found can lead to good practice in future. Time in these kinds of cases is of the essence. IF dogs had been pulled in to search earlier. IF a Warrant to search was asked for and issued.
Well done tho to the L E. And all those who were involved in securing the Offenders. And sentencing them as deemed fit.

 

[ColourPurple]

A bit more info about the type of that was found and also who Becky reported NM touching her leg to:


"But detectives unearthed a much more sinister motive. They discovered texts in which Matthews and Hoare exchanged messages about kidnapping petite teenage girls for sex. Their phones and computers were used to access focused on teenagers, young women dressed as schoolgirls and threesomes, and their laptop contained a 17-minute video of a young woman being raped in her own home.

For the first time it can also be reported that a stash of 19,000 explicit – but legal – images of young women was found on a hard drive at the couple’s cluttered Bristol home. And it can also be revealed that Becky had complained to a friend that Matthews had once touched her on the leg."

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...at-once-becky-watts-family-pay-tribute-to-her

 

[Gigi-G]

Righty-o I'm shattered. So its off to bed I go... I can hear the cheers from here... so sorry. I know I can go on n on. N bore ya'll. . Stay safe my Sleuthing buddy's. Nunight.

:bed:

 

[MissyLDT]

After hearing the statement from Becky's mother saying that it is important to listen to teenagers and don't ignore or dismiss what they tell you - and if they are worried about something take your time to listen to them .......... well for the first time I am wondering if NM and SH were actually planning to "scare" Becky (I mean if it was a sexual assault, it would scare her), rather than kill her, because they were totally confident that she wouldn't tell on them, or she wouldn't be believed. Maybe this time she threatened to tell someone different - such as her boyfriend - and they panicked.

I wonder exactly what Becky had told people in the past, and what had been dismissed? And I wonder if this wasn't the first time that NM and SH had done something to Becky.

That particular comment was loaded with meaning in my opinion.

The same part of the statement stood out to me too. I got the impression Becky had maybe aired concerns before and it was brushed off or believed to be sibling rivalry. I thought the rest of the statement was lovely and described Becky as the lively teenager she should be remembered as.

The fact Nathan was Becky's first word is heartbreaking - at one point he must have meant the world to her.

I'm still in shock that the verdicts are in already but I'm glad that justice was served for Becky. I find her family admirable in the unity and strength they have shown. I'm sure if Becky could see them she would be so proud at how much they have stuck together in her memory.

Becky and her case have occupied a lot of my thoughts since February and I know, like most of you who have followed from the start, she will never be far from them. Rest in peace Becky.

 

[Gigi-G]

The same part of the statement stood out to me too. I got the impression Becky had maybe aired concerns before and it was brushed off or believed to be sibling rivalry. I thought the rest of the statement was lovely and described Becky as the lively teenager she should be remembered as.

The fact Nathan was Becky's first word is heartbreaking - at one point he must have meant the world to her.

I'm still in shock that the verdicts are in already but I'm glad that justice was served for Becky. I find her family admirable in the unity and strength they have shown. I'm sure if Becky could see them she would be so proud at how much they have stuck together in her memory.

Becky and her case have occupied a lot of my thoughts since February and I know, like most of you who have followed from the start, she will never be far from them. Rest in peace Becky.

Totally agree. First time I have followed a case in this way. Followed Joanna Yates. And Fred & Rose West. As they 'local' cases. Especially the West's. As I live in Gloucestershire. But following then for me was done thru Media. Back when the West's were front page news. Computers and cell phones were few and far between. (Gosh makes me sound old!)
But the case was followed by many.
As was Joanna Yates'
But this case with Becky was full of extraordinary details. One that you couldn't even imagined in your wildest dreams.
But now the family of sweet sweet Becky can have some sort of closure. And I am soooooo glad that the Funeral home, enabled the family to see Becky, their own 'sleeping beauty' to say their goodbyes before she was peacefully laid to rest. Finally.
#BeckyWattsBristolsAngel ♡

 

[Clio]

I agree with that. I have been wondering if there were signs for years that NM was evil, and capable of such crimes? I'm sure people saw things, but like most of us, probably just that, he is strange, but didn't think he would be capable of doing such horrible things? There had to be things that bothered people. I feel like I'm a forgiving person, and no matter how logical I would try to put things in perspective, how hard it must be for Becky's father to be married to NM mother. She helped raise Becky, and she certainly appears to be a nice woman, and the two of them have been married for awhile. But, human nature, somewhere in the back of dad's mind there must be anger or some feelings about the situation. I mean no harm by this statement, and I feel horrible for AG. She is a sickly woman, and this must be so unbearable, to think your child could do this to another human being.

AG/DG did a TV interview this morning. They say there were no signs of anything to indicate what NM might do. AG also said that she will eventually visit NM to ask him why he did this.

Richard Gaisford ‏@richardgaisford · 10m10 minutes ago
#beckywatts parents speaking @GMB "there were no signs at all" Nathan Watts was planning to murder his step sister.

Richard Gaisford ‏@richardgaisford · 5m5 minutes ago
#beckywatts step mum & mother of her killer tells @GMB she'll visit him in prison to ask "why he did these things"

DG said although he initially blamed AG, now he does not hold her responsible for what NM did.

“I crumpled and punched the floor and walls - rocking back and forth like a mad man. I blamed Anjie for bringing Nathan into the world and he killed Becky.”
His wife Anjie told The Sun: “Darren said I was as guilty as them. He didn’t mean it. I cried. I love the son I gave birth to - but not the monster he became.”
Darren added: “Anjie is not responsible for the crimes of her son. I’d defend her with my life.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-dad-i-blamed-6815219

 

[Yozzer]

Sick Becky Watts killer Nathan Matthews spent 'time in morgues messing with bodies'


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sick-becky-watts-killer-nathan-6814224

Shades of Jimmy Saville.

 

[Bathsheba]

So so pleased that they have been caught before they could continue their evil acts and possibly kill as many poor girls and women as those other monsters Fred and Rose West.

RIP dear sweet Becky. Peace and love to your family and friends.

 

[Tortoise]

I also think that SH's INTENT is part of the equation. I've been reading the questions over and over and suddenly it dawned on me about intent (bolding by me):

6) Are you sure that Hoare participated or continued to participate in the kidnapping of Miss Watts intending to kill her or to cause her really serious bodily harm and that in the court of that attack Matthews suffocated or strangled Miss Watts while intending to kill her to cause her really serious bodily harm?

If yes: Guilty of murder.

If no: Not guilty of murder, but go to question 7.

7) Are you sure that Hoare participated or continued to participate in a kidnap of Miss Watts and that all sober and reasonable people would inevitably realise that some harm might be caused to Miss Watts and that during the course of the kidnap Miss Watts was suffocated or strangled by Matthews and was killed?

If yes: Guilty of manslaughter.

If no: Not guilty of manslaughter.


Read more: http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-...tory-28146837-detail/story.html#ixzz3rD8BeOTI
Follow us: @BristolPost on Twitter | bristolpost on Facebook

I've read Legal's explanation for the manslaughter verdict, ie that the jury didn't feel there was evidence for intent to kill, but I am still of the view that had they spent more time on it they may have concluded that the kidnap would have involved joint or shared intent for what seems more likely than not an inevitable outcome of death. They couldn't have foreseen that Becky would not know it was them or that she would not have pressed charges leading to an inevitable conviction.

They had both of the defendants with the same motive for the kidnap, dislike/hatred/harm/sex - so not as NM had tried to peddle a 'well-intentioned' motive.
They had 40 horrific injuries sustained by Becky during the carrying out of the plan, and a clear intent to kill surfacing during it. It wasn't accidental for instance.
They had evidence to suggest that NM did not act alone, and no reasonable explanation for SH not being present while it happened.

No couple would be expected to have left incriminating evidence / texts stating their intentions, to assist the court or police in terms of evidence.

Disappointed in the verdict of manslaughter, I feel SH is as dangerous as NM. She may or may not have been responsible for the physical violence used against Becky, but I am of the view that she fully participated in masterminding this plan to get rid of Becky. SH is perhaps even more dangerous than NM if she cannot feel anything about what they did. At least with NM, yes we know he is dangerous, a brute, wicked and twisted and should never be freed to walk amongst society in his lifetime, but his emotions are still evident. He doesn't look at his mother for example.

SH is in a different category - she is more the psychopath/sociopath if you ask me. I hope the sentencing reflects this.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Morning all!!

Exciting news - Bessie and KateB have set up a thread for those of us outside the US to have more general discussion about our cases. If anyone has any ideas for resources / links please add them there. It's in the Parking Lot so is only visible to Websleuths users, not the public. I'm not sure how it will all pan out but if you could all subscribe to it (leaving a comment is the easiest way) we can use it for non case specific discussion.

Here it is: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Court-Cases-Laws-and-Policies-Outside-the-U-S

 

[Alyce]

I've read Legal's explanation for the manslaughter verdict, ie that the jury didn't feel there was evidence for intent to kill, but I am still of the view that had they spent more time on it they may have concluded that the kidnap would have involved joint or shared intent for what seems more likely than not an inevitable outcome of death. They couldn't have foreseen that Becky would not know it was them or that she would not have pressed charges leading to an inevitable conviction.

They had both of the defendants with the same motive for the kidnap, dislike/hatred/harm/sex - so not as NM had tried to peddle a 'well-intentioned' motive.
They had 40 horrific injuries sustained by Becky during the carrying out of the plan, and a clear intent to kill surfacing during it. It wasn't accidental for instance.
They had evidence to suggest that NM did not act alone, and no reasonable explanation for SH not being present while it happened.

No couple would be expected to have left incriminating evidence / texts stating their intentions, to assist the court or police in terms of evidence.

Disappointed in the verdict of manslaughter, I feel SH is as dangerous as NM. She may or may not have been responsible for the physical violence used against Becky, but I am of the view that she fully participated in masterminding this plan to get rid of Becky. SH is perhaps even more dangerous than NM if she cannot feel anything about what they did. At least with NM, yes we know he is dangerous, a brute, wicked and twisted and should never be freed to walk amongst society in his lifetime, but his emotions are still evident. He doesn't look at his mother for example.

SH is in a different category - she is more the psychopath/sociopath if you ask me. I hope the sentencing reflects this.

Totally agree. As far as we know, NM and SH had no injuries ( although they were never checked ? ) whereas Becky had 40.
I don't believe that NM, with his size, health issues etc, would have been capable of inflicting this level of injury on his own.
Even if the fibro were a made up ailment, I don't believe the Jury were told this ?
Therefore, they were presumably weighing this into the evidence and it would be a huge factor for me, versus the level of injury NM would have been able to cause to Becky.
I do hope SH is given the maximum possible sentence. Like you Tortoise, I feel she is far more dangerous than NM.

 

[Alyce]

Morning all!!

Exciting news - Bessie and KateB have set up a thread for those of us outside the US to have more general discussion about our cases. If anyone has any ideas for resources / links please add them there. It's in the Parking Lot so is only visible to Websleuths users, not the public. I'm not sure how it will all pan out but if you could all subscribe to it (leaving a comment is the easiest way) we can use it for non case specific discussion.

Here it is: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Court-Cases-Laws-and-Policies-Outside-the-U-S

Mornin CMC - that is great news and particularly that it is only available/visible to members. Am off to subscribe now !