GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #16

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  • #801
Bizarrely, he got what he wanted. He got rid of the person he saw as stealing his mum's love away from him - the threat has gone. And now his mum is saying she will visit him in prison and made a public statement that she still loved him. And SH can smoke, eat no end of fattening food, take up her educational courses again, and make new 'friends' without his apparent control. Suddenly, their sentences don't seem so severe :(

RSBM. I agree - SH will probably prefer prison life to life with NM! At least she won't have to climb over clutter constantly but she might have to pee in a bucket occasionally...
 
  • #802
Tonight will pass today's happenings to the one drive public folder and we'll have it all complet about the Trial for Becky Watts. I''ll do it till the end even being so frustrated but I'll do it...
... for Becky.


To the mods of this fabulous site, I add also my Thanks. You, with your always atentive work

always help us keeping this pages under some order, respect and civility.


Thank You!

Thank you for your brilliant compilation of the trial - one day soon I'll read it all through from the start, but for now I need a break... I have had lots of local news about Becky over the last week too.
 
  • #803
Thank you for this post, Tortoise.

I had to quote it all as it deserves to be quoted. You were always brilliant exposing your ideas and you are the same til the end.


I wish I could write in English as you can, to expose my ideas better as they are very similar to yours. The only difference is that I can't contain my frustration and you can. You word it with class and objectivity.

I wish you well, Sleuthortoise
attachment.php
;)

thank you Beesknees, and thank you for the avatar!

I have to say you don't realise how well you come across. I love your expressions. Remember plonkerness?!

No, I do mean what I say, even if it isn't your native language, you have a better ability to say things than a lot of people I know who are English! And your passion always comes through.

Hope to see more of you, you have brought a lot of life into a very sad case. X
 
  • #804
...
Reminds me of when my sister was expressing horror at the public banging on the side of a police van. For me, I just think, they are expressing anger and outrage, just cause they are doing it in a different way, does it really make them a lynch mob? Even police and security know it's just an expression. (Remember the NM van as he left court after his first appearance - they let the chubby lady and the man with the shopping bag have a bash on the sides of the van?)

I quite like it when people bang the van (if I'm pretty sure they've got the right culprit for the crime). Although I do think it's hearkening back a bit to the old 'pitchforks through the village' type thing... as long as the person inside is in no danger, I don't think it does them any harm to realise how outraged the general public are!
 
  • #805
I just said to a defence QC friend 'so when are you overturning SH's conviction'? - his reply 'yuck, her?'

Was it definitely 'yuck'?! ;-):jawdrop:
 
  • #806
I quite like it when people bang the van (if I'm pretty sure they've got the right culprit for the crime). Although I do think it's hearkening back a bit to the old 'pitchforks through the village' type thing... as long as the person inside is in no danger, I don't think it does them any harm to realise how outraged the general public are!

edgedweller, at the end we all have inside of us the feeling of need for vengeance along with the wish for Justice.

We usually prefer to be politically correct and deny it. But both feelings are mixed sometimes.

When we face a person tha inflicted serious harm to another one, inside us we want that person to suffer, to be harmed too, to feel fear, to be reduced to nothing, as a way to 'pay' for the same things they made their victims suffer.

Of course, our limit line is that we don't take it in our hands as we can know right from wrong and we leave it to the courts and judges.

This is because we are civilised, we don't want to comit crimes, we don't want to end in prison and we care for us and for our families.

Thankfully the great MAJORITY of citizens around the world don't have the three main conditions to be hardened criminals - lack of empathy with other beings (either human or animals), deep selfishness - despise for the rules in society.

So, because of all this, thankfully we don't pass from the wicked idea to the action, but deep inside when we see that a person brought serious harm to others, we don't wish them well and we want them to suffer as if that suffering could heal a bit the suffering of their victims.

It's only human nature!
 
  • #807
thank you Beesknees, and thank you for the avatar!

I have to say you don't realise how well you come across. I love your expressions. Remember plonkerness?!

No, I do mean what I say, even if it isn't your native language, you have a better ability to say things than a lot of people I know who are English! And your passion always comes through.

Hope to see more of you, you have brought a lot of life into a very sad case. X


Aw shucks! Thank you! :blushing:

I sent you the tortoise as I found it cute, but only as a joke because of your nickname. I was not choosing you an avatar but I am very pleased if you want to use it as such.

Then please, take this one. I put it with the background in the same color of the page where it is placed and also this one is better. The one you picked appears to have holes in the shell.

Anyway if you want it with the background to be distinguished from the page, I mean to have a visible rectangle around the tortoise, tell me and I'll change it in a while!

cheers to your new avatar! :toastred:

View attachment 84331
 
  • #808
  • #809
..

Thank you, as far as I can I will then pass them to the Becky's trial compilation. And we'll have it all...

We'll have it all... it reminded me of the lyrics of Whitney :( Houston's song... ‘Didn't we almost have it all'.

I'll put here a very good rendition (for me the best rendition of this song) from her. It reminds me of us all that, many times are frustrated with our lives, but, IF and WHEN we really have a bad, bad happening in our lives - we then begin to give value and think that our lives were good BEFORE. And we would give it all to go back in time to live again that previous time of life. But, there is no way to go back in time, so we have better to live our daily life as if there was no tomorrow (but we never do it as we take it all for granted)...
One day we'll think - DIDN'T WE ALMOST HAVE IT ALL?!
It is a love song, but can be applied to many other states of 'soul'and phases of life imo.

Perhaps Becky's Mum and Dad, and many others world wide who are grieving, if they thought that their lives sometimes were problematic BEFORE, now, AFTER, they might think 'didn't we almost have it all, because now we have almost nothing' :(

To all of us...


... On the other hand, she also says - '...cause once you know what love is, you'll never let it end...'

So, there is still hope for all of us :heartbeat:


[video=youtube;i_4PlM85NJo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_4PlM85NJo"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_4PlM85NJo[/video]

Mods, if it is not allowed to post a song here, please delete it. I mean no offense. Just the contrary. TY.
 
  • #810
Thanks Bos!

Nothing that was in the edited version came as a surprise really, other than the mention of Shauna being raped. What an awful life that girl has had :/ (at least she still has her life though, I know)

I read through some of the UK & EIRE posts earlier and noted that their 'reporter' said that while they were waiting for the sentencing to begin that 'Shauna looked as though she were going to collapse' - that doesn't say to me that she was 'emotionless and calm' as it was said elsewhere ...

I feel like there's still a 101 unanswered questions ...
 
  • #811
For dear Becky, for the life and achievements, christmases, milestones and dreams, babies, prides and love/s she was cut from having :no: :cry:

Just for you baby girl :rose:

[video=youtube;-Bnj1-I1Q6c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Bnj1-I1Q6c"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Bnj1-I1Q6c[/video]
 
  • #812
And this last one for Becky...


[video=youtube;G5kc5IxtbBk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5kc5IxtbBk"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5kc5IxtbBk[/video]


Good night. Sleep tight.
 
  • #813
  • #814
SH'S sentences run concurrently. Of which she's been given a 'Determinate ' Sentence. Which ( if someone could double check for me) means she shall serve the 17 years. No less. No Parole. As Probation cannot alter the sentencing.


https://www.gov.uk/types-of-prison-sentence/determinate-prison-sentences-fixed-length-of-time

Shauna will serve the first half of the 17 years (minus 10 months already served on remand) in prison, after that she MAY be allowed out to serve the remainder on licence.

Here's some info on serving sentence out on licence ...

http://hub.unlock.org.uk/knowledgebase/licence-conditions
 
  • #815
Thanks Bos!

Nothing that was in the edited version came as a surprise really, other than the mention of Shauna being raped. What an awful life that girl has had :/ (at least she still has her life though, I know)

I read through some of the UK & EIRE posts earlier and noted that their 'reporter' said that while they were waiting for the sentencing to begin that 'Shauna looked as though she were going to collapse' - that doesn't say to me that she was 'emotionless and calm' as it was said elsewhere ...

I feel like there's still a 101 unanswered questions ...

Is that not just her feelings of self pity again though? She was about to be sent to jail for a few years.
 
  • #816
Is that not just her feelings of self pity again though? She was about to be sent to jail for a few years.
It may well be, I just had only seen/read - got the impression that she was stood in the dock almost like someone waiting for a bus, rather than waiting to be sentenced.
 
  • #817
  • #818
  • #819
I just want to post my final thoughts on the crime and the sentences.

I haven't changed my thinking that the correct verdict for SH should have been murder, based on my view, also touched on by the judge, that kidnappers don't tend to let their victims go afterwards, especially when the victim knows the identity of the attackers. I think a sentence of around 30 years would have been appropriate for both, to take into account all the aggravating features.

I don't agree that the judge should have allowed in SH's past as a mitigating factor, or the fact that she lost contact with her daughter. She took that risk when she committed this vile crime. If Retri is correct, she had no time for her daughter anyway.

I feel bad that I posted yesterday that NM should be locked up for his whole life, because he can't be cured. At the time I was thinking in line with the prosecution case, that this was a planned gratuitous killing with a sexual motive.

I think he is on the psychopathic spectrum but his shame (seen in the fact that he had to invent and stick with a false motive for his actions) and self-pity are evidence that there is more going on inside, he isn't dead inside.

His living conditions show his absolute inability to deal with his emotions and absence of any control over what he is suffering inside. And it is a mirror of his inner existence - a situation that is building and building and he can't control it - it is coming to a head and perhaps it is only just becoming apparent to his grandma but no-one knows why, he just comes across as jealous of Becky but it is more than that - he is so angry at his mum and hurt by her, but he can't show it. He is ashamed of wanting and needing more of her love than she gave him.

I believe that this wasn't a sexually motivated crime, and I think now that he is stuck at the age of the child he was when he became so damaged. It isn't an excuse for him, but I think if he can get over his shame and reveal this to psychiatrists, he can work through it and with their help, heal his wounded child.

I do pray this happens for him. I do not think any adult deserves to live with such severe emotional wounds from childhood. And I pray that the family get the reasons they so badly need so they can at least have an understanding even if they can never forgive.

I think along similar lines for SH but I fear that she has bigger problems to overcome, because I see very little emotional response in her at all. I think she went into this being dead inside to what she was doing. Totally shut down. Hence her lack of mothering skills.

They both need a lot of help, and a big stretch inside to pay for their crime. I fear with SH's lesser conviction and sentence she will not ever be held fully accountable for her true role in this crime, which will work against her, and she will never deal with the driving motivators behind her role in Becky's death.

Anyway, that's it from me folks, on this case at least.

It's been a learning experience for me.

RIP Becky Watts and I send love and healing to your family and friends.

It is indeed a complex nightmare of a situation for NM. Evident I'm his hoarding. (I read into it that the one person he loved. Gave up on him. (His mom) for whatever reason. Why would a mother do that? To pass him off to his Grandmother. He was only 7. Was he a difficult child? I'd love to know. To Profile him. So now he has had rejection from the one person he craved love from. And yet a few years later. He has another force to fight for his mother's love.. Becky.. now why would a Mother give up her own child. To pass him off to grandparents. And yet bring up someone else's child. And not only that... to spend almost every waking moment with her. At school also.. This must of been soul crushing for him. And damaging him beyond imagination.
So the seeds of evil were sowed. Rejection from the ONE he loved the most.
At least with his hoarding. HE made the choice to keep or not. HE for once. Had control.
Hence his controlling of SH. In his warped mindset. To love is to control. And SH was as damaged as he was. Now that was the fertiliser for the evil seed that was sown.
I can't make an accurate Profile of NM
not having his childhood details. But you get the gist.
And would of gone full circle with their babies. As they grew up. They would of been controlled..... Thank goodness the cycle has been broken.
Whether AG & DG will survive thru this. I really don't know. Even tho he loves her very much. Her son took the life of his baby. I don't think he will ever forgive that.
It's a very tangled Web. A Web I don't envy them being in.
 
  • #820
I read through some of the UK & EIRE posts earlier and noted that their 'reporter' said that while they were waiting for the sentencing to begin that 'Shauna looked as though she were going to collapse' - that doesn't say to me that she was 'emotionless and calm' as it was said elsewhere ...

I think the point made by several observers was that she only ever showed emotion over things that affected herself. Never for Becky or her family.
 
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