GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #4

[NSS]

Am not going to link this article but the other 5 names are all being shown now in MSM

Are you unable to link the article? Can you name the media outlet and I will go track it down? TIA.

 

[Alyce]

Are you unable to link the article? Can you name the media outlet and I will go track it down? TIA.

I saw the link on a FB page so didnt want to link from there but it is in MSM Bristol Post

 

[laurauk1]

But being held without bail suggests a level of seriousness. Having 'consistently' lied to police about this, I doubt that she will be allowed to parent the child for a while. She failed to protect her child from the unfolding events, in fact chose to protect the offender.

An application for bail would only be addressed by the judge if one was made. So it would mean counsel would apply for bail then it would or wouldn't be rejected. Even if she was to be eventually found not guilty, I don't think it would be a good idea for her to have bail right now. She has no where to go and would be a target.

Also for her to be bailed she would need to be bailed to an address - she doesn't have one as it is a crime scene. This means a Judge wouldn't realistically be able to entertain the idea of bail.

As for NM, I don't see why he would even apply for bail. There's no way on earth he'd be granted it, surely!? jMO

 

[mrazda71]

Anyone else notice that SH(P) is getting a harder time than NM both on MSM and social media??? Despite him being the one charged with the actual murder...!!
Wonder why.......maybe because she's a female??
Interesting.....

Funny you should say that, while looking into sentences for perverting the course of justice I was reading about Maxine Carr, she provided an alibi for Huntley, knowing it to be false but so far as I'm aware believing at that time, that he wasn't involved, she was stupid but with the aid of the press was made into a monster. It's almost as if the biological fact of having a uterus and especially one that has produced a child, should somehow make it worse - how could a woman do such a thing!? If a brother or close male friend had done the same many people will say 'Ooh he was just showing loyalty' ... i'll shut up now, I know I'm rambling [emoji9]

 

[Kaly99]

But being held without bail suggests a level of seriousness. Having 'consistently' lied to police about this, I doubt that she will be allowed to parent the child for a while. She failed to protect her child from the unfolding events, in fact chose to protect the offender.

Perhaps so, but it's a heck of a lot better than having a mother who's an alleged murderer, isn't it? Particularly if she wasn't aware of what NM had done (in which case she didn't realise she was protecting the offender).

 

[Clio]

To me "perverting the course of justice" sounds like a lesser charge than "assisting an offender", but from what I have read the maximum sentence for the former is life whereas sentencing for the latter is 3-10 years maximum. Is that correct?

SH is charged with perverting the course of justice (because she lied to the police) whereas the other 5 suspects are being held on suspicion of assisting an offender. Which sort of implies, because of the sentencing guidelines, that whatever they are accused of, it's not as bad as lying to the police. Can somebody help clarify this for me please because I am a little confused. Thanks

 

[MADD ANNA]

Anyone else notice that SH(P) is getting a harder time than NM both on MSM and social media??? Despite him being the one charged with the actual murder...!!
Wonder why.......maybe because she's a female??
Interesting.....

To an extent maybe, but I think the fact that she was sharing news articles about Rebecca on fb and pretending that she was actually trying to help find her... well, as somebody on here has already said, that's hideous.

 

[MADD ANNA]

Of course, there is a possibility Shauna genuinely didn't know, but was asked by Nathan to provide an alibi for him for whatever reason. Maybe he admitted it looked dodgy on his part, but ultimately convinced her that he was completley innocent.

 

[Cherwell]

Funny you should say that, while looking into sentences for perverting the course of justice I was reading about Maxine Carr, she provided an alibi for Huntley, knowing it to be false but so far as I'm aware believing at that time, that he wasn't involved, she was stupid but with the aid of the press was made into a monster.

Yes, I always felt sorry for her. There but for the grace of God go I.

To an extent maybe, but I think the fact that she was sharing news articles about Rebecca on fb and pretending that she was actually trying to help find her... well, as somebody on here has already said, that's hideous.

It depends on whether she knew what he'd done. If she thought she was helping him cover up something less serious, then I feel some sympathy for her. But we don't know much yet.

 

[Alyce]

I suppose the question is, did SH lie * innocently* - ie; gave him a false alibi but didnt know what he had done, just alibied him because he said he couldnt explain his whereabouts and would come under suspicion if she didnt help him
or did she lie knowing what had happened

 

[NSS]

The charge states that Hoare 'did a series of acts which had the tendency to pervert the course of public justice in that you hindered the police investigation to assist Nathan Matthews and intended for him to avoid detection for the murder of Rebecca Watts'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ccused-attempting-pervert-course-justice.html

Intended to avoid detection suggests that she knew what he had done, and assisted him with lies and acts. I am not being hard on just SH here, the others involved are all equally to blame for the days that Beckys family spent agonising over where their child was. I hope that every last one of them gets a maximum sentence.

 

[Kaly99]

To me "perverting the course of justice" sounds like a lesser charge than "assisting an offender", but from what I have read the maximum sentence for the former is life whereas sentencing for the latter is 3-10 years maximum. Is that correct?

SH is charged with perverting the course of justice (because she lied to the police) whereas the other 5 suspects are being held on suspicion of assisting an offender. Which sort of implies, because of the sentencing guidelines, that whatever they are accused of, it's not as bad as lying to the police. Can somebody help clarify this for me please because I am a little confused. Thanks

It is confusing, I agree! There's a bit of information about the different offences on the CPS website (BIB mine):

The courts have made it clear that assisting an offender is a serious offence and, if the statutory offence of assisting an offender can be charged, it should normally be preferred over common law offences.

However, the common law offence of perverting the course of justice should be considered when:

• the assisting is aimed at preventing or hindering the trial process (as opposed to the arrest or apprehension of an accused);
• the facts are so serious that the court's sentencing powers for the statutory offence are considered inadequate;
• admissible evidence of the principle offence is lacking.

Assisting an offender is sometimes not an easy offence to prove since it requires proof that the principle committed an arrestable offence and that the accused knew or believed this. In the absence of such proof, other public justice offences, such as obstruction or perverting the course of justice, can provide alternative charges.

Of the reasons given for choosing perverting the course of justice over assisting an offender, (1) obviously doesn't apply, and I can't imagine (2) applies either, as she's surely not going to be given over ten years for lying...? So that would leave the third option described in the last paragraph, that there's a lack of evidence she knew NM had committed an arrestable offence.

But yeah, it's definitely confusing.

 

[Clio]

It is confusing, I agree! There's a bit of information about the different offences on the CPS website (BIB mine):


Of the reasons given for choosing perverting the course of justice over assisting an offender, (1) obviously doesn't apply, and I can't imagine (2) applies either, as she's surely not going to be given over ten years for lying...? So that would leave the third option described in the last paragraph, that there's a lack of evidence she knew NM had committed an arrestable offence.

But yeah, it's definitely confusing.

Thanks. I had been looking at the CPS site aswell. This says that if possible assisting an offender should be charged but if that's not possible then the charge of perverting the course of justice can be used which again, to me, implies that perverting the course of justice is a lesser charge. So if the latter is a lesser charge, I am struggling with the charging guidelines. Anyway, I guess the bottom line is they think they have enough evidence to prove she lied but not enough evidence to prove that she knew she was lying to cover up an offence.

 

[Kaly99]

Thanks. I had been looking at the CPS site aswell. This says that if possible assisting an offender should be charged but if that's not possible then the charge of perverting the course of justice can be used which again, to me, implies that perverting the course of justice is a lesser charge. So if the latter is a lesser charge, I am struggling with the charging guidelines. Anyway, I guess the bottom line is they think they have enough evidence to prove she lied but not enough evidence to prove that she knew she was lying to cover up an offence.

Another point that might be relevant is that it sounds like SH could've been charged with both assisting an offender and perverting the course of justice, like Maxine Carr. Carr was acquitted of assisting an offender because the jury believed she didn't know Huntley was guilty, but convicted of conspiring to pervert the course of justice, so at least in her case the difference between the charges is whether or not she knew he was guilty. From here:

Huntley's former fiance, Maxine Carr, 26, was found guilty of conspiring to pervert the course of justice by giving Huntley a false alibi. She was cleared of more serious charges of assisting an offender.

As you say, though, the difference in sentencing is strange - perhaps it's just that perverting the course of justice has more flexibility in sentencing, so it could be anything from a fine to life, whereas assisting an offender is more specific, 3-10 years?

 

[YidArmyRach]

But being held without bail suggests a level of seriousness. Having 'consistently' lied to police about this, I doubt that she will be allowed to parent the child for a while. She failed to protect her child from the unfolding events, in fact chose to protect the offender.

Could it be that this is still an on-going investigation, with perhaps more crime scenes and/or suspects to be investigated - so they don't want her potentially mixing with anyone who may be connected in any way. Also, I imagine its for her own safetly, seeing as a lot of the public don't seem to understand the charges against her and still believe she took part in the murder. Looking at the calls for her to be hung and all sorts, I imagine she wouldn't be safe if she was released. If the charges are for providing a false alibi for example, believing he was innocent, then that part of the public may soften their view and her safety might not be at risk?

 

[Cherwell]

Also, I imagine its for her own safetly, seeing as a lot of the public don't seem to understand the charges against her and still believe she took part in the murder. Looking at the calls for her to be hung and all sorts, I imagine she wouldn't be safe if she was released. If the charges are for providing a false alibi for example, believing he was innocent, then that part of the public may soften their view and her safety might not be at risk?

One would hope so, but most of those people are too thick. See Maxine Carr again.

 

[mrazda71]

I'm confused about possible sentences. I'm sure I've seen comments about SH/P facing up to ten years in relation to PTCJ but this link says 4 - 36 months? I've got a blinding headache (probably from spending so much time staring at my phone this last week) so maybe I've read wrong :/

 

[Unique]

Bristol Post

Police have been granted more time to question five people arrested in connection with the death of Becky Watts.

Karl Demetrius, 29, Jaydene Parsons, 23, Donovan Demetrius, 29, Shannon Demetrius, 23, from Barton Hill and Jamie Ireland, 23, from Avonmouth have been named locally as the five people arrested on suspicion of assisting an offender.


Karl Demetrius and Jaydene Parsons


Donovan Demetrius


Shannon Demetrius


Jamie Ireland

 

[skibaboo]

Bristol Post

Police have been granted more time to question five people arrested in connection with the death of Becky Watts.

RSBM - That extra 24 hours will be running out in about an hour I think.

 

[Unique]

RSBM - That extra 24 hours will be running out in about an hour I think.

Hopefully we will get a few more answers.