GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #8

[Cherwell]

Just a comment about reversing the car on to the drive. This is something a lot of people habitually do: my perception is that more men do it than women. Certainly professional drivers seem to do it (NM loosely falls into this category, being a delivery driver), and it is the recommended way to park. It is considered safer to drive out forwards than to reverse out on to the road.

I remember being criticised by my cousin (he's a lorry driver) once because I drove straight in to a parking bay. I agreed with him in principle but pointed out that as we were in a supermarket car park it was more practical to drive in forwards as it gave easier access to the boot when it came to loading the shopping! He was forced to agree with me :giggle:

 

[jessie]

Just a comment about reversing the car on to the drive. This is something a lot of people habitually do: my perception is that more men do it than women. Certainly professional drivers seem to do it (NM loosely falls into this category, being a delivery driver), and it is the recommended way to park. It is considered safer to drive out forwards than to reverse out on to the road.

I remember being criticised by my cousin (he's a lorry driver) once because I drove straight in to a parking bay. I agreed with him in principle but pointed out that as we were in a supermarket car park it was more practical to drive in forwards as it gave easier access to the boot when it came to loading the shopping! He was forced to agree with me :giggle:

Not sure where I read it, but I am pretty sure NM told the police that he usually parked on the road when at Anjie's house.

Also, very thoughtless notgood of him to park in the drive anyway since he knew Anjie would be due back from her hospital visit later, and with her health/mobility problems much easier for her to be driven as close to the front door as poss. It was for a reason he did that day imo.

eta = and not to wash his car !!!!

 

[Clio]

Yup, WE know that but remember SH isn't supposed to know anything ... so what reason did he give her?

Yes sorry I misread - have edited my previous post. Who knows! From the same article she has said that she didn't ask him about the bathroom or his behaviour because it could "result in him getting violent".

 

[ColourPurple]

Just a comment about reversing the car on to the drive. This is something a lot of people habitually do: my perception is that more men do it than women. Certainly professional drivers seem to do it (NM loosely falls into this category, being a delivery driver), and it is the recommended way to park. It is considered safer to drive out forwards than to reverse out on to the road.

I remember being criticised by my cousin (he's a lorry driver) once because I drove straight in to a parking bay. I agreed with him in principle but pointed out that as we were in a supermarket car park it was more practical to drive in forwards as it gave easier access to the boot when it came to loading the shopping! He was forced to agree with me :giggle:

Nothing strange about the reversing other than apparently he normally parked on the road but that day he reversed up onto the driveway , saying he did so because he was going to wash his car.

 

[ColourPurple]

Yes sorry I misread - have edited my previous post. Who knows! From the same article she has said that she didn't ask him about the bathroom or his behaviour because it could "result in him getting violent".

No worries . He refers to one night gettting a taxi home from SH's mother's house so that he didn't drink drive. I wonder if this is the night he's referring to and it was a friend rather than a taxi?

[FONT=open_sans]He also confirmed that, around the time Becky disappeared, he and Hoare spent a number of days with Hoare's mum in Wilton Close, Southmead.[/FONT]
[FONT=open_sans]He said on one occasion he left his car there and got a taxi home to avoid drinking and driving.[/FONT]

[FONT=open_sans]

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-...tory-27982812-detail/story.html#ixzz3pUp1dQ68

[/FONT]

 

[Clio]

Mr Stone told the court that his stepdaughter phoned at around 4.40pm on February 23 to see if they could visit them at their home in Southmead, Bristol. Just over an hour later, Matthews rang.

Describing the call with him, Mr Stone told the jury: "I thought it was a bit strange.

"He said 'if anyone comes for me can you tell them that we are going out for a meal because we are supposed to be going out with someone and don't want to'."

Prosecutor William Mousley QC asked Mr Stone whether they did go out that night.

Mr Stone replied: "No. We just stopped in."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-mum-6603592

Hmm I thought it was SH who said this bit about all going out to eat later but apparently not. NM must have called KS about the same time as NM/SH were caught on CCTV at McDonalds. Wonder if SH heard the call and if so, how did he explain that away?

 

[bos]

So SH,NM and their child were taken home in JI?s van? Although SH refers to them staying in the "car". So did KD pick them up in his car then JI arrived in the van? Can't see why they'd be picked up from Sh's parents rather than drive unless NM had drank too much, but then why not stay over at SH's parents again. They could have still got there in the morning to meet police.

But this is the first night they've re established contact with SH's parents after 2-4 years ( the argument about the car apparently 4 years before but yet LD & KS seemed to say they hadn't seen each other for 2 years). I don't think NM had to make an excuse not to stay, I'd fully expect to go home if I'd newly re-contacted someone who I'd parted on bad terms with; everything would feel too tentative at that point.

 

[YidArmyRach]

Is the 23rd Feb the night that KD & JI moved the boxes etc? JI said when he went back to Cotton Mill after taking boxes he went in for a and a woman was shouting at the man (NM). Sorry I can't find where in court that bit was said. But, I would think that the fact SH was shouting had some kind of knowledge regarding these boxes/suitcases. SH claimed she was asleep and left them in the car talking?? Is this 'catching her out' or did they go to the house twice? Confused

I'd be interested to see everyone's version of events for that night. NM might have a reason to cover up for SH if he wants her free to care for their child but the other men don't even know her, so have nothing to gain from lying about her involvement - if she was involved.

Although there hasn't been the forensic evidence to link her with a lot of the crime so far, evidence does seem to come in bits ........... like NM saying he used the saw when she was out, but she said she heard him using it to cut pipe for the toilet; and now her saying she was asleep when one of the other people there at the time says she was awake and arguing.

I don't believe she was asleep that quickly. If their child was with them, then she would have needed to have been got ready for bed presumably - clothes off, washed, teeth done, pyjamas on and settled into bed. After doing all that, SH would have done the same. They way its worded, it sounds like SH woke up in bed the next morning, rather than having dropped off on a sofa. Didn't one of the men claim to have gone in the bedroom, or at least seen her in there?

 

[sar2them1984]

Don't know if KD can give evidence as a witness since he is a defendant himself, albeit he has pleaded guilty to his own charge. I doubt if JI will be called as a witness, possibly due to his autism. Also if we were going to hear from him, wouldn't that have happened at the same time as we heard from his mates? Though who knows with the order in which the prosecution are presenting their evidence!

Anyway, here's what SH had to say.

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http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/...tory-28035571-detail/story.html#ixzz3pQKVryMu

As an aside, I thought NM/SH drove to Southmead in the Zafira on 23rd Feb so presumably the car was left there overnight. They went back to Southmead on the 24th arriving late morning and leaving around midnight. Wonder how they got there.....

Don't forget we don't know for sure he's autistic yet..

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

 

[ColourPurple]

But this is the first night they've re established contact with SH's parents after 2-4 years ( the argument about the car apparently 4 years before but yet LD & KS seemed to say they hadn't seen each other for 2 years). I don't think NM had to make an excuse not to stay, I'd fully expect to go home if I'd newly re-contacted someone who I'd parted on bad terms with; everything would feel too tentative at that point.

I mentioned staying over because I remembered SH's stepfather had said they stayed over one night when they'd had too much to drink that week. But fair point about it being their very first night. I'd thought it was after their first visit to SH's parents that they moved the body but it does look like it was that first night and that them staying was after that.

They stayed until the early hours and were given a lift home by a friend, the jury heard.Mr Stone told the jury Hoare, Matthews made another visit to his home the next day.
They arrived late in the morning and stayed until shortly before midnight.
Hoare and Matthews made a third visit a few days later, leaving around 11pm.
Then Hoare and Matthews made a fourth visit to the house in the same week.
Mr Stone said: “There was a night they stayed because they had a few drinks.”
The jury heard Matthews and Hoare stayed at the house on Friday night and were arrested there on the Saturday morning.

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/world-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-recap-6601785

 

[ColourPurple]

Don't forget we don't know for sure he's autistic yet..

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

I think it was JI's own lawyer who mentioned his ADHD and autism, so a reliable source.

ETA source

The witness said that on occasion Ireland had asked him for some help - making it clear that he had difficulty with reading and writing and needed help using the internet. He also told the court he had some difficulty with his speech. The defence asked if he knew that these difficulties were in part caused by his suffering from ADHD or autism

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http://www.itv.com/news/west/story/2015-10-09/becky-watts-trial-day-3/

 

[YidArmyRach]

I think it was JI's own lawyer who mentioned his ADHD and autism, so a reliable source.

ETA source

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[/FONT][/COLOR]http://www.itv.com/news/west/story/2015-10-09/becky-watts-trial-day-3/

So that factor could be used to say his evidence (and the placing of SH with them at the time) could be unreliable even if true, perhaps? If they are going to use it to say he is vulnerable and didn't know what he was doing, then I guess that could be used in SH's favour.

 

[ColourPurple]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-mum-6603592

Hmm I thought it was SH who said this bit about all going out to eat later but apparently not. NM must have called KS about the same time as NM/SH were caught on CCTV at McDonalds. Wonder if SH heard the call and if so, how did he explain that away?

"If anyone comes for me..." . KS is right that isn't a normal conversation. We know he's talking about the police but KS must've been thinking "Why would somebody they were meant to go out to dinner with come round my house looking for them?" No wonder they never told them Becky was missing.

I wonder did they arrange the visit before or after police had asked to visit. They came up with the meal as a reason when police asked to visit but I wonder had the visit to SH's parents actually been arranged at that point.


Also just found more info about why (they said) they were picked up that night instead of using their own car

• The first visit

On the first visit by Matthews and Hoare on 23 February, the witness said she asked the couple why they had decided to get back in contact after years of estrangement. Hoare didn't reply, and Matthews allegedly answered "because Shauna wanted to".
On this first visit, Matthews told the witness that their car was acting up and a friend would pick them up. She told the jury she did not see them being picked up.

http://www.itv.com/news/west/story/2015-10-09/becky-watts-trial-day-3/

Now was the car playing up or did he/they not want the car to be there when police searched the house?

 

[Cherwell]

So that factor could be used to say his evidence (and the placing of SH with them at the time) could be unreliable even if true, perhaps? If they are going to use it to say he is vulnerable and didn't know what he was doing, then I guess that could be used in SH's favour.

I think it could be argued that he is more likely to tell the truth.

 

[ColourPurple]

So that factor could be used to say his evidence (and the placing of SH with them at the time) could be unreliable even if true, perhaps? If they are going to use it to say he is vulnerable and didn't know what he was doing, then I guess that could be used in SH's favour.

I guess it depends how his autism affects him. It might be it gives him a better attention to detail or a tendency to be truthful, though we've also heard he exaggerates.

 

[YidArmyRach]

I think it could be argued that he is more likely to tell the truth.

Totally agree - as I posted earlier on this thread, my son is on the autistic spectrum and cannot and will not lie. Everything is black and white. If someone said something even slightly altered from fact, he'll notice it immediately and insist on correcting them. He has a very good memory for detail too. I hope this is the case with JI!

I just wonder if his diagnosis could be used to discredit him by the defence, if his evidence is the one that puts SH clearly in the frame.

 

[Insp.Dots]

"If anyone comes for me..." . KS is right that isn't a normal conversation. We know he's talking about the police but KS must've been thinking "Why would somebody they were meant to go out to dinner with come round my house looking for them?" No wonder they never told them Becky was missing.

I wonder did they arrange the visit before or after police had asked to visit. They came up with the meal as a reason when police asked to visit but I wonder had the visit to SH's parents actually been arranged at that point.


Also just found more info about why (they said) they were picked up that night instead of using their own car

• The first visit

http://www.itv.com/news/west/story/2015-10-09/becky-watts-trial-day-3/

Now was the car playing up or did he/they not want the car to be there when police searched the house?

Was just mulling over this visit and NM's saying 'if anyone comes'. He made a point of saying that to SH's Family, he also refused to name the men who helped him move body. Yet, we are meant to believe he not once made any warning to SH of things to say or not say....this leaves me again thinking, he didn't need to as she knew.
Also, out of the blue they go to SH's Mum's, NM said this was SH's idea? May well have been but can't help thinking they BOTH knew Police needed to talk to them and they both made excuses, they could not risk Police wanting to enter Cotton Mill til they'd got rid of evidence. Surely, even IF SH was innocent, NM would have told her some story to explain the 'odd' things going on?
I think this could be where they could trip themselves up along with JI seeing a woman shouting at NM, truly hope they get at least one of them on the stand as despite the lack of firm evidence against SH they have a huge number of questions to answer and I don't think she'd get through Cross without messing up or breaking. ALL MOO, I am eating and sleeping this case now and am so worried that Justice is not going to be fully done for Becky,:tantrum:

 

[Alyce]

The reporter probably didn't know, but I think the article could still be accurate without being specific. Wouldn't the term "sniffer dogs" embrace all dogs that are trained to detect by smell? Whether it's drugs, explosives, blood or corpses, they all search by sniffing.

Well I wouldnt disagree with you re the reporter - the amount of incorrect info they are capable of providing sometimes !

Re Sniffer - yes, in theory, any dog that is detecting something by smell is sniffing , but in situations where Cadavers have been used, it has often been specified in the reporting.

 

[Alyce]

They seem to have established that Becky died in her bedroom. Could they have reached that conclusion as a result of cadaver dog behaviour?

From memory ( and I stand to be corrected ) doesnt the corpse have to have been in the room for a minimum of 2 hours for a scent to be detected by the Cadaver dogs ? If yes, then I doubt poor Becky was there long enough

 

[Alyce]

SH's friend has confirmed that she and SH both watched/listened to the frozen parody a year or so before, so although I don't think anybody thinks she was neccessarily trying to pick tips up from watching it again the night Becky had been killed, it does leave open the question of whether she was rewatching it or showing NM it in order to make light of the situation they were in that night. Laughing about it. Seems a bit of a coincidence that she'd search on youtube for a parody song about hiding a body on the very day that they're suspected of finding themselves with a body to hide.

I find it absolutely chilling that either of them could choose to watch this particular clip on that particular night.