GUILTY UK - Rolf Harris for molesting underage girls, child 🤬🤬🤬🤬, 2013

[Mrs G Norris]

Unfortunately they do things like this .. and yes to girls they don't know in front of, or in close proximity to people they do.

 

[Ausgirl]

To be fair, (and in agreement with Mrs. G, with whom I cross-posted - jinx!) there -are- child molesters who certainly are that bold and opportunistic.

In this particular case, however, I think Ms. Lee, for whatever reason, is making a false accusation.

And I think ACA were very aware of this, due to the placement of the obviously conflicting statement right at the beginning of the program.

 

[SapphireSteel]

You can't apply standard body language techniques to an abuse victim. Waste of time. For those of us that have worked closely with victims, I can tell you right now there is certainly no one way for victims to behave, sit, speak, respond, recall, etc. It is so so sad that there are still people who think that abuse can be written off if someone doesn't act the way they think an abuse victim should act.

That's not what I'm doing.

I would never "write off" abuse, in fact I have said repeatedly that she probably has been abused in her life.

A lot of us have.

I have however "written off" the allegation that it was Rolf Harris who abused her.

The reasons -

• the story doesn't make sense. ullhair:
  
• If this woman is part of the case against Rolf, she would not be speaking to ACA in public. Her statement is evidence and would be kept quiet until he was charged with this crime.
  
• He hasn't been charged with this particular crime even though she got interviewed by Op Yewtree officers who travelled from the UK to do it.
  
• She admits she has been in and out of mental hospitals, that she wants fame, and that she is getting paid.

Enough for me to stay off the mud slinging band wagon for now.

:cow:

 

[Mrs G Norris]

This is a timblr account where people post their stories of sexual assault, or molestation, you can see how varied experiences are .. http://survivorstories.tumblr.com/

You can never know how somebody will react, and perpetrators take on many different forms also. It's not like you can just look at someone and say 'no way' or 'definitely', that goes for all of us as none of us have viewed whatever evidence the police have which led to charges being laid against Rolf Harris, but after reviewing the evidence they did indeed charge him, and have images as well from the charges, so that is pretty damning IMO.

Imagine this poor woman who spoke out, she probably imagined that people would not believe that Rolf Harris molested her, but she would likely never have expected people to consider that he may be a molester, but she was lying for 'fame' or 'attention' or some such thing. She wanted to be famous as a kid for performing, I very much doubt if she wants to be famous as an adult for being molested by Rolf Harris in the hallway outside a pub toilet.

Very sad, it will be interesting as more facts come to light, and it seems this is heading for a trial unless something is worked out. We shall see.

 

[Strangeworld]

That's not what I'm doing.

I would never "write off" abuse, in fact I have said repeatedly that she probably has been abused in her life.

A lot of us have.

I have however "written off" the allegation that it was Rolf Harris who abused her.

The reasons -

• the story doesn't make sense. ullhair:
  
• If this woman is part of the case against Rolf, she would not be speaking to ACA in public. Her statement is evidence and would be kept quiet until he was charged with this crime.
  
• He hasn't been charged with this particular crime even though she got interviewed by Op Yewtree officers who travelled from the UK to do it.
  
• She admits she has been in and out of mental hospitals, that she wants fame, and that she is getting paid.

Enough for me to stay off the mud slinging band wagon for now.

:cow:

BBM - she is part of the case against Rolf Harris. That was confirmed in the interview and matches with what is in MSM.

 

[Ausgirl]

Dunno about the other charges.. but in this one case?

Seems ACA has just given Rolf's defense a giant card to play, seeing as she's on film making statements which totally conflict.

I am the LAST person to doubt a claim for abuse. Trust me on that. But her story plainly does not add up, and there's just no getting past that, IMO.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

BBM - she is part of the case against Rolf Harris. That was confirmed in the interview and matches with what is in MSM.

Yes, and as I recall victims of Robert Hughes also gave media interviews, even though that case has yet to be heard by a judge, and was still being investigated at that stage.

 

[Strangeworld]

Transcribed from the ACA interview linked earlier. Note the use of 'up' and 'down':


3:10
TL: He moved his hand .. um.. down, underneath my duffel coat. Moved his hand . um..to the band of my skirt and put his hand down my skirt.. and down the stockings, pantyhose.. and down my underpants and.. and pushed his hand down my pants and fondled me.

6:30 (describing first alleged incident)
TL: um.. and then he put his hand my thigh, so.. Then I started to feel a bit weird. So the hand he had on me, he sort of moved around across my thigh .. um.. because my legs were on the outside of his legs. And that's when he moved his hand up.. up my skirt.

ACA: What was going through your mind at that time?

TL: Then I started to get worried and started to get a bit scared. Um... 'cause.. happened quickly, and then it started to go up quite high, up towards, um, my pants. It went right up to the top but he wasn't inside and touching my skin or anything like that.

8.00 (describing second alleged incident)
TL: Um.. he.. came over to me and sort of edged me toward the pot plant. And then w.. sort of made out like he was going to give me a hug. So.. um, I was sort of wedged in between.. um.. the potplant and .. um.. he had his hand over me. Um.. I can't remember exactly what he said but it was something like, 'Oh there you are' or, you know, s.. something along those lines. Gave me a hug, and I didn't say anything, 'cause I was pretty frozen at that stage, and I.. I was scared, 'cause I was trapped, basically, and um.. I didn't.. I didn't scream, I don't know why, um.. Then he put his hands.. um.. on my top. And put his hands down.. um.. my top. Um.. and.. started to touch my breasts and then really quickly, with the same hand, um, before I knew it he put his hands up my skirt and he put his hands um, down my tights and pants.


Odd use of plurals, also.

So.. was there a THIRD incident, where Rolf went down the waistband of her skirt, as she said at 3:10? Or can't she keep the details of her story straight?

Things that make you go hmm.

I wouldn't read too much into this small discrepancy. In the situation she was in during the interview, it could be nerves, or just a misuse of words. I'm all for looking for slips that reveal potential deception, but I just don't see this as one of those cases. IMO

I am hesitant to analyse her behaviour much more, as this is a victim-friendly forum, and as of right now, she is classed as a victim. Obviously, if she has anything to hide or confess to, it will come out. I just don't see the point in questioning her legitimacy when we obviously do not have access to any further information at this stage. And I'm certainly not going to sleuth her. I also wouldn't want this discussion to be read by other victims who are yet to report their abuse, and hesitate because they may be seen to be deceptive.

 

[Ausgirl]

I wasn't "sleuthing" her -- the discrepancy in her statement is right there, in the video, for anyone to see. And I refuse to minimise it -- it's a bit beyond a simple mis-wording, IMO. She said one thing happened "just so" and then says another, different thing happened "just so". To me, that's an good indication somebody is telling porky pies, no matter what the situation is. And in one this serious? She ought to be clear on what happened to her (or not as it were) before she goes on TV and opens her mouth.

Sorry, but I am not afraid to call a liar a liar, when the lie is right there.

and in fact, I'm pretty sure people making false allegations are the thing which hurts genuine reports, not people pointing out that they're false...

I get that all is not out in the wash yet, but in my opinion she's full of it.

So I most respectfully must disagree that this woman is a victim of Rolf Harris at all. Somebody, maybe --- just not Rolf.

 

[Strangeworld]

I wasn't accusing you of sleuthing Ausgirl. Sorry if you thought I was directing that statement at you.

I totally respect different opinions on this interview. But I just don't think this is the place to dispute her truthfulness UNLESS something else is revealed. She is technically a victim at this stage, and we cannot judge based on the interchanging of two words. This isn't my opinion, this is the purpose of WS.

 

[Ausgirl]

Agreed, Strangeworld.

I'll wait for the courts to find her a liar as well, and then shall have my say.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Another discrepancy? She told someone she was 13 at the time, on tape she said 14.


SCOTLAND Yard's Australian investigation into Rolf Harris allegedly centres on a visit by an amateur theatre troupe to Britain in the 1980s.

A mother of three from Wollongong, NSW, has made claims to Scotland Yard about Harris's behaviour while on an eight-week tour with the Melbourne-based theatre group, Shopfront, in 1986.

The Wollongong woman, who is believed to have also recorded an interview with A Current Affair, said she was 13 when an alleged incident occurred


Harris's friends have defended the superstar, saying the Wollongong woman's claims and those of another woman, Lauren Martell, were "utter, utter rubbish"....


"I would say she's an unreliable witness. I'm amazed Scotland Yard are wasting their time to do this."

"(Rolf Harris) is the cleanest living man, the most un-rock 'n' roll."

Harris's best friend and long-time producer Steve Lima said Martell's allegations were "completely without foundation".

He dismissed the Wollongong woman's claims, saying Harris had "absolutely no interest in children".

"I've seen young girls go up to him on the street and he has a cuddle," Mr Lima said. "It's never crossed the line and I simply don't believe that."

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/aus...ris-tour-trouble/story-fni03bui-1226640036481

He has strong support from a lot of people.

He has strong support from me, who was once one of those young girls getting a cuddle.

Apparently there are only two accusers, Ms Lee and one other woman. Not a lot for 60+ years of potential pedophiliac activity.

One of his friends goes on to say he is worried for Rolf's life. Imagine if he is innocent, and everyone is believing lies. Just imagine how awful that would be if you know you haven't done anything. Imagine if it was your own grandfather being accused.

:scared:

 

[Ausgirl]

I dunno. I'm just sitting here tonight wondering what the heck is wrong with the world, when somebody so clearly hinky is given the benefit of a doubt and all the compassion that is to be offered, over an elderly man who's not at all hinky and has spent 60 years doing nothing but making people smile.

It's like people want him to be guilty. Really, that's how it seems to me. Well, I do not want that. I am holding out hope that really nice men still do actually exist, and that men can be kindly public figures without also being rampant perverts a la Jimmy Savile (though Savile's perviness was a well known fact for decades... if Rolf is a perv, it'd be the best kept entertainment secret on the planet, methinks, as there's never been even a whisper until now).

Anyway. I find I'm not terribly able to feel "victim friendly" toward Ms. Lee and her spotty capacity to recall the details of her own story. So I'm going to wait for the outcome of it all before I say anything else.

 

[Strangeworld]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I can guarantee I never wish for abuse to be true. Because this would mean there are people capable of abuse, and people suffering abuse.

There is context to the arrest of RH. Even if no one believes the testimony of a minimum of 2 (and who knows if there will be more that come forward) potential victims. There are charges related to last year, that are not dependant at all on witness testimony. The police obtained information from his computer - this is objective evidence. They would not be charging him if that evidence wasn't substantial.

 

[Cappuccino]

I've no opinion either way on the guilt or innocence of Rolf Harris. I just want to point one thing out - people have been charged for possession of child when they didn't even know it was on their computer. It can happen in various ways, one example I remember was a man who was sent an e-mail with an attachment which he never opened, the attachment contained child images.

If there were a whole stash of illegal images on Harris' computer I wouldn't bother waiting for any more before I assumed him guilty, but there are only four images involved here. That's more ambiguous. I can see an innocent person ending up with four dodgy images on their hard drive without even being aware they were ever there.

I'm remaining neutral on this one till we know more.

 

[Ausgirl]

Okay. Just one more comment..

Re what Cappucino said.. what pedo has a grand total of -four- images in their collection? 400, 4000.. those are the numbers where I'd be saying, "Okay, fibbing frootloops aside, obviously Rolf's guilty anyway, the end". And then have a bit of a cry in the corner, along with my disillusioned inner child.

But he's an artist. As an artist myself, I probably have more than four images on my compy that would require some serious 'splainin if I was ever accused of such a crime. Quite innocent reference images, but would they be seen as such when viewed through accusing eyes?

Okay. I'm done now. (but we've heard this before haven't we, Ausgirl)

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I think we're forgetting what Rolf Harris is really like, there have been other issues with Rolf for years, his stunningly racist comments in the media for example!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2008-12-01/aboriginal-group-slams-bigoted-harris/225406
http://www.nyungah.org.au/documents/RolfHarri.html

Look, I understand the shock, and of course we need to see more of the evidence, but I feel no great sympathy for him.

 

[Tugela]

Any time you have accusations of sexual assault 30 or 40 years later against someone prominent you have to take it with a large pinch of salt. For the simple reason that people lie all the time for all sorts of reasons, not the least of which is financial or attention. There are a good proportion of people who will believe an accusation of that sort no matter if it is true or not, plus it is pretty much impossible for the person accused to defend themselves.

In this particular case we are being asked to believe that a teenager was touched inappropriately around other people 30 plus years ago and this was so damaging that it ruined her life, and she could only make a complaint after all this time? Really? There is more to this than that. An extraordinary accusation requires extraordinary proof.

 

[Tugela]

I wouldn't read too much into this small discrepancy. In the situation she was in during the interview, it could be nerves, or just a misuse of words. I'm all for looking for slips that reveal potential deception, but I just don't see this as one of those cases. IMO

I am hesitant to analyse her behaviour much more, as this is a victim-friendly forum, and as of right now, she is classed as a victim. Obviously, if she has anything to hide or confess to, it will come out. I just don't see the point in questioning her legitimacy when we obviously do not have access to any further information at this stage. And I'm certainly not going to sleuth her. I also wouldn't want this discussion to be read by other victims who are yet to report their abuse, and hesitate because they may be seen to be deceptive.

No, she is making an accusation. Exactly who the victim is remains to be seen however.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I think we're forgetting what Rolf Harris is really like, there have been other issues with Rolf for years, his stunningly racist comments in the media for example!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2008-12-01/aboriginal-group-slams-bigoted-harris/225406
http://www.nyungah.org.au/documents/RolfHarri.html

Look, I understand the shock, and of course we need to see more of the evidence, but I feel no great sympathy for him.

Do you know him?

Do you know "what he's really like"?

No?

ullhair: