UK UK - Ruth Wilson, 16, Dorking, 27 Nov 1995

[alb1on]

Just to pick up on a couple of points;
The question was asked about whether Dorking Library had a microfiche reader. I think it is inconceivable that it did not. Leatherhead Library (5 miles away) still has one and so do a few other local libraries. In the 1990s they were the main means of researching local items. Even now they are needed for old records and newspapers that have not been digitised and remain, for example, the main means of access at the Surrey History Centre in Woking.
The question of the checks on the taxi driver was raised (as it has been in the past). I can only repeat what I have said before. The police would have been able to check subsequent movements and the original booking with his controller and next customers. My family once had a bus/coach/taxi company and the checks are easy. Whilst it does not provide a cast iron alibi it would limit any time to act and conceal a victim to the extent it would be possible to rule him out in practice.
The only thing I find odd in any of the exchanges is the surprise at finding she had been up to Box Hill before. It is the local spot to go to for a bit of quiet time and even in easy walking distance from her home. I would have been surprised if she had not done so. I assume they mean, without saying, that either she made a frequent habit of it or they know she went up there for some specific reason. Occasional visits there would be on the agenda of half the population of Dorking.

 

[Konstantin]

The only thing I find odd in any of the exchanges is the surprise at finding she had been up to Box Hill before. It is the local spot to go to for a bit of quiet time and even in easy walking distance from her home. I would have been surprised if she had not done so. I assume they mean, without saying, that either she made a frequent habit of it or they know she went up there for some specific reason. Occasional visits there would be on the agenda of half the population of Dorking.

Yes I find that odd as well, but maybe her parents meant it in the sense that they were surprised she was going up there after school, rather than they were surprised she went up there at all.

It was November, it was dark early so if she had been going up there after school in the months before her disappearance, it would have been dark in the late afternoon, probably quite cold, and also probably often rainy or wet. If she did frequent Box Hill in those weeks, you'd think it was to meet someone who lived up there (there are houses up there, near the pub, right?), go in the pub if they didn't mind she was a bit young, or in a car. I don't see how you can really walk around the more countryside bits in the dark, with no lights.

 

[mrC]

theres only one persons word that she went to box hill nobody else saw her there

 

[Cardgame]

Just to pick up on a couple of points;
The question was asked about whether Dorking Library had a microfiche reader. I think it is inconceivable that it did not. Leatherhead Library (5 miles away) still has one and so do a few other local libraries. In the 1990s they were the main means of researching local items. Even now they are needed for old records and newspapers that have not been digitised and remain, for example, the main means of access at the Surrey History Centre in Woking.
The question of the checks on the taxi driver was raised (as it has been in the past). I can only repeat what I have said before. The police would have been able to check subsequent movements and the original booking with his controller and next customers. My family once had a bus/coach/taxi company and the checks are easy. Whilst it does not provide a cast iron alibi it would limit any time to act and conceal a victim to the extent it would be possible to rule him out in practice.
The only thing I find odd in any of the exchanges is the surprise at finding she had been up to Box Hill before. It is the local spot to go to for a bit of quiet time and even in easy walking distance from her home. I would have been surprised if she had not done so. I assume they mean, without saying, that either she made a frequent habit of it or they know she went up there for some specific reason. Occasional visits there would be on the agenda of half the population of Dorking.

Do you mean to say she could have walked home from box hill that night?

 

[Cardgame]

Do you mean to say she could have walked home from box hill that night?

Answering my own question here, have since been looking at maps. In theory she could have walked home in an hour or so. Google might be misleading because it only gives you the road as an option, there could be footpaths that would be quicker. It would certainly be unlucky if no one had seen her on the way, especially as she got into the village, but it's not impossible.

 

[Konstantin]

Answering my own question here, have since been looking at maps. In theory she could have walked home in an hour or so. Google might be misleading because it only gives you the road as an option, there could be footpaths that would be quicker. It would certainly be unlucky if no one had seen her on the way, especially as she got into the village, but it's not impossible.

Ruth was smart, she set up the flowers for her stepmum and most likely the letters to be found under a bush on Box Hill (it was rainy and stormy that night so to avoid them blowing away and getting lost, she likely secured them somehow -- maybe in a plastic box or something that could be found). It is not completely unreasonable to assume she knew she would be traced via the taxi to that dropoff in Box Hill and she did that deliberately to point people to look for her there, and find her "farewell letters" while she then went somewhere else, met someone with a car and went elsewhere.

The flowers to her stepmum, following her discovery of her mother's death by suicide, suggest that RW might have wanted to make a point by setting up a scene that made it look like she might have done the same thing. Maybe RW did not intend to disappear permanently. That fits with the young woman being seen in the newsagents in distress a year later, which Ruth's parents thought was her -- perhaps she was looking at local papers to see if any notice had been taken of her on the anniversary of her disappearance, by her parents. The flowers could be a cry for attention, in the sense of a cry for help. Ruth was distressed and troubled. Friends said she could be a bit dramatic. She was a teenager who had had a terrible shock that turned her life upside down. Perhaps she was struggling with other things.

 

[Cardgame]

Ruth was smart, she set up the flowers for her stepmum and most likely the letters to be found under a bush on Box Hill (it was rainy and stormy that night so to avoid them blowing away and getting lost, she likely secured them somehow -- maybe in a plastic box or something that could be found). It is not completely unreasonable to assume she knew she would be traced via the taxi to that dropoff in Box Hill and she did that deliberately to point people to look for her there, and find her "farewell letters" while she then went somewhere else, met someone with a car and went elsewhere.

The flowers to her stepmum, following her discovery of her mother's death by suicide, suggest that RW might have wanted to make a point by setting up a scene that made it look like she might have done the same thing. Maybe RW did not intend to disappear permanently. That fits with the young woman being seen in the newsagents in distress a year later, which Ruth's parents thought was her -- perhaps she was looking at local papers to see if any notice had been taken of her on the anniversary of her disappearance, by her parents. The flowers could be a cry for attention, in the sense of a cry for help. Ruth was distressed and troubled. Friends said she could be a bit dramatic. She was a teenager who had had a terrible shock that turned her life upside down. Perhaps she was struggling with other things.

I like everything you say.

The flowers fascinate me.

Earlier in the thread, someone posted that flower arranging was something Ruth did with her step mother, a joint activity.

It's hard to equate that to a "eff you" somehow.

I just keep wondering if the flowers read differently after she went missing, but were meant to be a nice surprise.

I can't quite get into the mindset of a sixteen year old girl who sends angry flowers due to arrive two days after she plans to kill herself or disappear.

I do wonder if the flowers are a big red herring.

 

[Bickles]

I think the flowers could have been a message to her stepmum before her disappearance. I can see flowers being sent in anger, in light of what Ruth had recently discovered about her mum's passing. Perhaps her stepmum hated a certain flower and Ruth knew it? It's not uncommon to dislike lilies for example, due to their strong fragrance.

 

[Cardgame]

I think the flowers could have been a message to her stepmum before her disappearance. I can see flowers being sent in anger, in light of what Ruth had recently discovered about her mum's passing. Perhaps her stepmum hated a certain flower and Ruth knew it? It's not uncommon to dislike lilies for example, due to their strong fragrance.

To me though, it conflicts with the fake suicide note theory. Why send flowers to arrive *after* you disappear, if what you want to do is convince people you are dead?

Why Wednesday?

 

[alb1on]

Answering my own question here, have since been looking at maps. In theory she could have walked home in an hour or so. Google might be misleading because it only gives you the road as an option, there could be footpaths that would be quicker. It would certainly be unlucky if no one had seen her on the way, especially as she got into the village, but it's not impossible.

There are footpaths down the hill which greatly reduce the distance although I doubt she would have taken them in the dark and rain. But even if she did we can be sure she did not have an accident there as the area, including the quarry on that side of the hill was thoroughly searched including by dogs and specialists for the difficult areas.

 

[Cardgame]

I have been going back through the old newspaper articles.

Here are some relevant findings :

- Upthread people were wondering if the details about the notes and paracetamol were rumour or verified.

In the contemporaneous paper, they were reported as actual "suicide notes" although the contents were not published. The paracetamol was also reported in the papers.

- at the time, they do seem to have found the sightings of Ruth after her disappearance to be credible, and they initially believed she had either walked or got a bus back to the village from box hill

- this was following a massive search for her, not on the Friday night as we thought, but on the Saturday

- flower arranging was something Ruth did competitively with her sister, father and stepmother, they appear in the local paper as entering a festival on several occasions

- I could find no story about Nesta's death in any newspaper, only a short death notice. Which doesn't meant there isn't one, only that I wasn't able to locate it

- Ruth was expected to do very well in school that year, this conflicted with info I read elsewhere (not in contemporaneous papers) about her hiding a school report? Can't remember where I read this but the local paper has a story suggesting that she had aced her GCSEs and had a bight academic future

- I couldn't find a contemporaneous report that mentioned her spending hours in the library, only that she was seen in the florist, and the next time she is seen it is in the library. IMO it is possible this has over the years turned into "she spent four hours in the library" but it may be there are actions unaccounted for in between, MOO.

- in one contemporaneous article the FLO, mark Williams Thomas, describes Ruth has being very "unstable". But in another the stepmother describes her disappearance as "a bolt from the blue". Quite a disparate description, which is interesting

- when the flowers arrived, the newspapers at the time reported that this is when IW and KW began to think RW had committed suicide, interesting that they would interpret it that way. There is also a description of the bouquet in case anyone knows about the meaning of flowers!

- so far I have only searched local newspapers, I will report back if there is more info at a national search level.

Not sure if im allowed to post all the newspapers clippings here. A couple of them are available on Internet searches, but I'll include the one about the bouquet.

 

[Cardgame]

I have been going back through the old newspaper articles.

Here are some relevant findings :

- Upthread people were wondering if the details about the notes and paracetamol were rumour or verified.

In the contemporaneous paper, they were reported as actual "suicide notes" although the contents were not published. The paracetamol was also reported in the papers.

- at the time, they do seem to have found the sightings of Ruth after her disappearance to be credible, and they initially believed she had either walked or got a bus back to the village from box hill

- this was following a massive search for her, not on the Friday night as we thought, but on the Saturday

- flower arranging was something Ruth did competitively with her sister, father and stepmother, they appear in the local paper as entering a festival on several occasions

- I could find no story about Nesta's death in any newspaper, only a short death notice. Which doesn't meant there isn't one, only that I wasn't able to locate it

- Ruth was expected to do very well in school that year, this conflicted with info I read elsewhere (not in contemporaneous papers) about her hiding a school report? Can't remember where I read this but the local paper has a story suggesting that she had aced her GCSEs and had a bight academic future

- I couldn't find a contemporaneous report that mentioned her spending hours in the library, only that she was seen in the florist, and the next time she is seen it is in the library. IMO it is possible this has over the years turned into "she spent four hours in the library" but it may be there are actions unaccounted for in between, MOO.

- in one contemporaneous article the FLO, mark Williams Thomas, describes Ruth has being very "unstable". But in another the stepmother describes her disappearance as "a bolt from the blue". Quite a disparate description, which is interesting

- when the flowers arrived, the newspapers at the time reported that this is when IW and KW began to think RW had committed suicide, interesting that they would interpret it that way. There is also a description of the bouquet in case anyone knows about the meaning of flowers!

- so far I have only searched local newspapers, I will report back if there is more info at a national search level.

Not sure if im allowed to post all the newspapers clippings here. A couple of them are available on Internet searches, but I'll include the one about the bouquet.

Replying to my own message again to add:

Old newspaper articles ie from 1995, 1996

 

[Cardgame]

From a Google search:

Red lilies are a powerful symbol of romantic love and longing.
They are often used in romantic flower arrangements or as a way to express deep feelings of love.
Red lilies can be given to a spouse on a wedding anniversary or to a partner on Valentine's Day.
Determination
Red lilies can symbolize determination and are a good gift for someone who is about to face a challenge.
Other meanings
In ancient Greek mythology, red lilies were believed to have come from the blood of the goddess Hera, symbolizing both love and jealousy.
The strong red color of the flower can represent the intensity and strength of emotions.

ETA chrysanthemum and carnation seem to have different meaning depending on what colour they were, anything from love and devotion to sorrow and loss.

 

[alb1on]

I have been going back through the old newspaper articles.

Here are some relevant findings :

- Upthread people were wondering if the details about the notes and paracetamol were rumour or verified.

In the contemporaneous paper, they were reported as actual "suicide notes" although the contents were not published. The paracetamol was also reported in the papers.

- at the time, they do seem to have found the sightings of Ruth after her disappearance to be credible, and they initially believed she had either walked or got a bus back to the village from box hill

- this was following a massive search for her, not on the Friday night as we thought, but on the Saturday

- flower arranging was something Ruth did competitively with her sister, father and stepmother, they appear in the local paper as entering a festival on several occasions

- I could find no story about Nesta's death in any newspaper, only a short death notice. Which doesn't meant there isn't one, only that I wasn't able to locate it

- Ruth was expected to do very well in school that year, this conflicted with info I read elsewhere (not in contemporaneous papers) about her hiding a school report? Can't remember where I read this but the local paper has a story suggesting that she had aced her GCSEs and had a bight academic future

- I couldn't find a contemporaneous report that mentioned her spending hours in the library, only that she was seen in the florist, and the next time she is seen it is in the library. IMO it is possible this has over the years turned into "she spent four hours in the library" but it may be there are actions unaccounted for in between, MOO.

- in one contemporaneous article the FLO, mark Williams Thomas, describes Ruth has being very "unstable". But in another the stepmother describes her disappearance as "a bolt from the blue". Quite a disparate description, which is interesting

- when the flowers arrived, the newspapers at the time reported that this is when IW and KW began to think RW had committed suicide, interesting that they would interpret it that way. There is also a description of the bouquet in case anyone knows about the meaning of flowers!

- so far I have only searched local newspapers, I will report back if there is more info at a national search level.

Not sure if im allowed to post all the newspapers clippings here. A couple of them are available on Internet searches, but I'll include the one about the bouquet.

Just one word of caution. Mark Williams Thomas is a dodgy journalist these days whose primary activity is promoting his own career. He left Surrey Police under dubious circumstances and 2-3 years later stood trial for blackmail (but was acquitted). He has been quoted as believing Ruth cannot be on Box Hill (his first position) and subsequently that she may be there (despite the searches, massive use over the years and tens of thousands who turned out on the hill in 2012 when it was used as the hill section of the Olympic road cycling race). I would be very cautious about ascribing any credibility to his views, especially as he has appeared to have a grudge against Surrey Police.

 

[alb1on]

I have been going back through the old newspaper articles.

Here are some relevant findings :

- Upthread people were wondering if the details about the notes and paracetamol were rumour or verified.

In the contemporaneous paper, they were reported as actual "suicide notes" although the contents were not published. The paracetamol was also reported in the papers.

- at the time, they do seem to have found the sightings of Ruth after her disappearance to be credible, and they initially believed she had either walked or got a bus back to the village from box hill

- this was following a massive search for her, not on the Friday night as we thought, but on the Saturday

- flower arranging was something Ruth did competitively with her sister, father and stepmother, they appear in the local paper as entering a festival on several occasions

- I could find no story about Nesta's death in any newspaper, only a short death notice. Which doesn't meant there isn't one, only that I wasn't able to locate it

- Ruth was expected to do very well in school that year, this conflicted with info I read elsewhere (not in contemporaneous papers) about her hiding a school report? Can't remember where I read this but the local paper has a story suggesting that she had aced her GCSEs and had a bight academic future

- I couldn't find a contemporaneous report that mentioned her spending hours in the library, only that she was seen in the florist, and the next time she is seen it is in the library. IMO it is possible this has over the years turned into "she spent four hours in the library" but it may be there are actions unaccounted for in between, MOO.

- in one contemporaneous article the FLO, mark Williams Thomas, describes Ruth has being very "unstable". But in another the stepmother describes her disappearance as "a bolt from the blue". Quite a disparate description, which is interesting

- when the flowers arrived, the newspapers at the time reported that this is when IW and KW began to think RW had committed suicide, interesting that they would interpret it that way. There is also a description of the bouquet in case anyone knows about the meaning of flowers!

- so far I have only searched local newspapers, I will report back if there is more info at a national search level.

Not sure if im allowed to post all the newspapers clippings here. A couple of them are available on Internet searches, but I'll include the one about the bouquet.

Just one word of caution. Mark Williams Thomas is a dodgy journalist these days whose primary activity is promoting his own career. He left Surrey Police under dubious circumstances and 2-3 years later stood trial for blackmail (but was acquitted). He has been quoted as believing Ruth cannot be on Box Hill (his first position) and subsequently that she may be there (despite the searches, massive use over the years and tens of thousands who turned out on the hill in 2012 when it was used as the hill section of the Olympic road cycling race). I would be very cautious about ascribing any credibility to his views, especially as he has appeared to have a grudge against Surrey Police.

 

[Cardgame]

Just one word of caution. Mark Williams Thomas is a dodgy journalist these days whose primary activity is promoting his own career. He left Surrey Police under dubious circumstances and 2-3 years later stood trial for blackmail (but was acquitted). He has been quoted as believing Ruth cannot be on Box Hill (his first position) and subsequently that she may be there (despite the searches, massive use over the years and tens of thousands who turned out on the hill in 2012 when it was used as the hill section of the Olympic road cycling race). I would be very cautious about ascribing any credibility to his views, especially as he has appeared to have a grudge against Surrey Police.

Thanks for that, I had no idea about the blackmail case!

I do think that it is a curious way to describe Ruth, especially as it seems to directly contradict the parents view at the time.

I'm not saying I believe either more than the other, more that it's curious to express such a stance if it's not what the family themselves are reporting.

 

[Tricia]

Hey Everyone,
Please remember Facebook and rumors are not allowed as sources. Please stop posting what you read on Facebook and stop posting rumors.
Thank you,
Tricia

 

[Cardgame]

Apologies thread, that was my bad. Should've known better.

 

[mrC]

i dont set any store by what mwt says hes proved to be rather unreliable lately

 

[Cardgame]

I haven't found any contemporaneous reports in national newspapers of Ruth going missing.

She starts to get mentioned around a year after she went missing, and usually in the context of other missing young people and also milly dowler.

Interesting that MWT is also quoted in the attached article, and this time suggesting that Ruth was from a totally stable background just like Milly Dowler.

No new information in any of these clippings, but it's interesting to see the clear difference between Milly's disappearance and Ruth's in terms of how they hit the media.