UK UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 #4 *Arrests*

[ForFoxSakeFox]

Having worked in UK LE, I know they are used, when seizing phones/tablets as evidence.

I've never seen one used in that way, maybe big forces like met do, however you can also easily buy them on amazon etc, they're recommended for owners of keyless cars usually

 

[Parmalade]

I totally get what your saying, that the fate of the phone may not actually have anything to do with that happened, but I guess in my original post, I was just trying to hope that this wasn’t some kind of terrible, heinous, crime and may have just been some smaller incident, that went, very, very wrong and escalated from there!

Absolutely, I didn’t mean to come across cold in any way. We’re all praying for good news and, if that’s tragically not to be, then whatever the best form of news it is otherwise is (ie no premeditation, no ordeal), and I hope that’s taken in the spirit I intend it to be.

 

[Camp_Ben]

Or used a Faraday bag, which would block out all signals and which police officers are likely to have easier access to as they are often used when seizing mobile phones/tablets for evidential purposes. Just a thought.

That would show real premeditation, to have something like that to hand, and to confiscate SE’s phone immediately!

 

[PingTheRouter]

I've never seen one used in that way, maybe big forces like met do, however you can also easily buy them on amazon etc, they're recommended for owners of keyless cars usually

the simplest form of this is the card case you can buy which protects your RFID chip from being scanned at a distance and your details stolen i guess

but we have big ones in the lab to stop certain interference, and those are plugged in to a wall

That would show real premeditation, to have something like that to hand, and to confiscate SE’s phone immediately!

in an evidence room i could understand, but having one of these on you?

the only issue with a faraday bag, is that as soon as you open or somehow disrupt the faraday effect its going to start pinging again and connecting to the network, unless of course its dead

 

[infinit]

Last thought on the phone before I go to bed, if that model iPhone has fingerprint unlock - You assume he has access to that if he's overpowered her.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

thinking logically here, how would a Police officer automatically have access to someone's Twitter account. They aren't merged companies, nor is there a massive database that the police have total access to. As far as I am aware, it does NOT work that way.

Using open source data it is often easy enough to garner enough information to identify an individual and possibly an address/locality and from there use internal databases to obtain telephone contact details. It's really not that difficult.

 

[Fidobell]

Heavens above, I leave you people alone for two hours and all hell breaks loose. I can never catch up.

I've been away for 24 hrs and I'm just catching up !

 

[serenelyso]

Last thought on the phone before I go to bed, if that model iPhone has fingerprint unlock - You assume he has access to that if he's overpowered her.

Even with the latest models, you can just hover the phone over someone’s face and it unlocks instantly.

 

[jenpil]

Using open source data it is often easy enough to garner enough information to identify an individual and possibly an address/locality and from there use internal databases to obtain telephone contact details. It's really not that difficult.

Browsing Internal databases for a member of the public's mobile phone number may infringe data protection rules, if it's for personal use, and actually contacting them would definitely run foul of GDPR.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

I think one sad thing to consider is obviously Police are trained in neutralising people. The sad reality is the phone could have gone offline quickly because she was overpowered very quickly.

UK LE aren't trained to 'neutralise people' with their bare hands, if that's what you meant?

They are trained to get compliance when required, methods of restraint using wrist/arm locks and to strike primary, secondary and final strike areas with a baton, if needed to over power a threat. Although, a taser or incapacitant spray would be the primary and secondary options.

Only a taser or a firearm would do that without much of a problem and I think that may be a wee bit far fetched.

 

[Fortune Cookie]

Browsing Internal databases for a member of the public's mobile phone number may infringe data protection rules, if it's for personal use, and actually contacting them would definitely run foul of GDPR.

Not if you were a Police Officer and could justify it as a line of enquiry.

 

[infinit]

UK LE aren't trained to 'neutralise people' with their bare hands, if that's what you meant. They are trained to get compliance when required using wrist/arm locks and to strike primary, secondary and final strike areas with a baton, if needed.

Only a taser or a firearm would do that with much of a problem and I think that may be a wee bit far fetched.

Poor wording - Yes - Making non-compliant people compliant.

 

[Sillybilly]

Sleuthing the social media of family or friends is not allowed.

 

[tmar]

New member, been following along since yesterday, something about this case has grabbed my attention. I am a woman of a similar age to SE, and was a victim of a violent attack in North London back in 2015, whilst walking home alone after dark, but not late, so maybe that's why this has struck a chord with me.

Just wanted to comment on the above, and comments in the earlier thread about lack of a scream potentially being significant. I think unfortunately until you are a victim of a violent crime you can't know how you are going to react. You always think you will run, or fight back, or scream, but I think in reality many more people freeze. You usually have no control over it, when met with a threat to your life you get an automatic fight, flight or freeze response from the amygdala that happens without you putting any conscious thought into it. In my case, I was punched in the face hard out of nowhere, and didn't even realise what was happening until I was on the ground taking more blows to the head. I completely froze up and didn't make a sound. Thankfully my attacker took my bag and ran off, and I only had minor injuries (and a serious case of PTSD which took a lot of th

Following your post: how one acts when frightened.
Years ago, I attended a self defence course run by the police.
We were informed, on a certain day, we will be attacked: police officer well disguised and padded.
We should use all the tactics we have been taught.
I FROZE.

 

[legoarmo]

Once she is in the car and driven away from a populated area, I don’t think it really matters what happened to the phone. I think if someone is intimidating, and threatening, you might just do as they say under duress, in hopes they won’t hurt you any further. “Turn off your phone” “If you scream I’ll kill you” etc.

It really is awful to think about.

 

[GemmaNut]

UK LE aren't trained to 'neutralise people' with their bare hands, if that's what you meant. They are trained to get compliance when required using wrist/arm locks and to strike primary, secondary and final strike areas with a baton, if needed.

Only a taser or a firearm would do that with much of a problem and I think that may be a wee bit far fetched.

Your average 30 something young professional will comply though, if they’re taken by surprise, assuming he is in uniform, barking orders.

The average MC professional would go into shock from being subject to a legitimate arrest. Those things just aren’t in their life experience.

 

[Thebutlerdiditagain]

Following your post: how one acts when frightened.
Years ago, I attended a self defence course run by the police.
We were informed, on a certain day, we will be attacked: police officer well disguised and padded.
We should use all the tactics we have been taught.
I FROZE.

that is understandable.
You often hear all the bravado from people before an event, but nothing can fully prepare you, but a bit of guidance is great. I think your reaction can differ from day to day.

 

[jenpil]

Not if you were a Police Officer and could justify it as a line of enquiry.

I really do think a police officer phoning up a member of the public asking about how to view footage from traffic cameras is ridiculous. It breaches professional standards. Not to mention the police know to contact the traffic camera operating companies directly. If this police officer didn't, then he/she should've asked their sergeant and arranged to contact the local council's or borough's CCTV department.

 

[SuziQ]

Once she is in the car and driven away from a populated area, I don’t think it really matters what happened to the phone. I think if someone is intimidating, and threatening, you might just do as they say under duress, in hopes they won’t hurt you any further. “Turn off your phone” “If you scream I’ll kill you” etc.

It really is awful to think about.

In the UK, are LE cars locked and caged in the back? There is no getting out. Scary to think about.

 

[ForFoxSakeFox]

that is understandable.
You often hear all the bravado from people before an event, but nothing can fully prepare you, but a bit of guidance is great. I think your reaction can differ from day to day.

Yep, Mike Tyson famously said that everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face